/sci/ - Science & Math

fuck yearr

You'll never be able to memorize all the terms that I have to learn, jelly?

>call biologists parrots
>repeat the same shit meme everyday
ISHYGDDT

>>3888579

>>3888579
>>3888603
>1+ for meme irony realization

I approve.

>>3888696
Stop. You are making me cry.

>>3888579
>>3888579
its funny because this is how i do it...

Oh my, you guys are so clever. I would have never thought that someone would be so creative in their trolling that they would even think to troll biologists on /sci/.

You people are miracle workers.

Nice one OP

My OC

>>3888628
Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.
Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
Metabolism: Transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.
Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of multicellular organisms. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism) and by chemotaxis.
Reproduction: The ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism, or sexually from two parent organisms.

>>3888831
I believe you are either retarded that you think most biologist for this very reason think god doesn't exist or you're just trolling.

>>3888867
>stoichiometry

>>3888869
So is fire "life" ?

>>3888877
Pardon, but I have met too many biology students that keep their God Delusion in the same way christians keep their Bible.

>>3888913
It most certainly explains why creationism isn't true, I hope they do look into at least bit of physics to know why god can't exist?

>>3888916
Erm, that's retarded, maybe the teacher or partner, that would make sense.

>>3888906
All 7 points have to apply to something in order for it to be considered alive.

>>3888928
I would be more at ease if people sought their own answers.

>>3888987
oh my god, this is fucking hilarious

>biology
>hard science

>>3888971
True that, but if people UNDERSTAND why it's correct and don't just accept it, then it's all right then, right?

>>3889031
Not if said book has observational bias!

>>3889045
Tbh I haven't read it, what kind of biases are you speaking of? I'd expect to see something about this.

>>3889077

lol'd

>Why u no select language
>Close tab

is it possible to calculate pi in mind to whatever digit is needed?

>>3889102
lol'd hard

>>3888869
>mfw we might life not as we know it and your shitty definitions fall to pieces

>>3889116
What is that in that pic?

The most intelligent biologist to ever live...

>>3889080
Well, the entire book is about the evil theocracy, oh jesus save us from the evil theocracy, the theocracy will steal our SCIENCE.

It's kind of silly if you have a serious grasp of history. As for the arguments pro-evolution, he ignores the (catholic) church just nods and says "okay", without actually challenging it.

if you are going to read about Atheism, please search for other authors. Dawkins is a joke.

this thread is too awesome for words

>>3889134

>Dawkins is a joke
>lololol hurr durr I'm an agnostic xD so edgy

get a degree in anything then come back

>>3889029
Wait a minute... didn't you want to be a Marine Biologist?

>>3889130
It's my face when we find life not as we know it and your shitty definitions fall to pieces

>>3889155
>missed the c in acquire
P-chem mid term thursday, I blame that

>>3889150
Wow. Only in /sci/ is being called an agnostic an insult. Admitting ignorance is not a sin against science, you know?

>>3889150
Anon's a prof it seems.
Also, he never said he was agnostic, and even if he was, so what?

>>3889176
ur a faget

>>3889144
nice

>>3889176
that could explain the rampant viral nature of economics threads around here.

>>3889176
Agnostics are pretentious cunts for whom atheism or religion is too mainstream.
They can't wait to let you know. You meet one of these degenerates and within 2 minutes they find a way to let you know they're agnostic and deep thinkers.

>>3889176

only "edgy" teenagers and those with very little intelligence claim that agnosticism isn't part of athiesm.

regardless, agnosticism is still a useless position. the right thing to do is to believe in what is currently prevailing in science.

do you believe in God? yes or no. if you "don't know" that actually means you don't, therefore you are an atheist.

>>3889185
>physicist mumbo jumbo

lol i've had to take classes with biology majors (chemfag here)

this is exactly what they sound like

this is fucking awesome!

it's about the onus of proof. if there is no evidence for a specific belief then it serves us no purpose to believe in it. for instance, there's no evidence that fairies exist therefore I do not believe in them - technically, it's "possible" in some strange way that they exist, but I don't believe in them.

now, why do agnostics say they "don't know" whether God exists or not, but they will tell you they don't believe in fairies or ghosts?

it's because they're pretentious morons with no idea what they're actually talking about.

>>3889134
It actually is quite true in such situations as baptist church.
d

>>3889200
Why is it that someone sitting down and saying "hmm, is there a God? Let me consider the evidence. Well, I guess I'm truly ignorant on this issue!" is a bad thing?

Do you think every agnostic is out there throwing their ideas in your face? I usually avoid these sorts of debates.

It's just one of many points of views and taking it isn't some attempt to join a secret club or look smarter than everyone. It's just how I've considered the evidence. In fact, I've almost stopped caring about religion vs atheism vs agnosticism since I became agnostic over atheist.

Stop being a dick and let's get back to shitty biologist jokes.

also makes for a >tfw when

I say I'm agnostic around christians.. They seem less perturbed when you say that

>>3889239

Do you believe in ghosts or fairies? Yes or no.

Protip: everyone will laugh at you if you say you "don't know." Yet that's what you agnostics should actually believe.

>>3889239
Well, let me ask you a question, are you agnostic towards russel's teapot?

>>3889230
I don't believe he exists.

Bottom line is he may.

Do I think we should structure societies around his existence? No. He shouldn't even be a point of discussion, just like fairies. But if you asked "Do I believe he exists" then the truth is, I don't know. Same goes for fairies. Realistically, it makes more sense to just answer no so it can remain a non-issue. But technically, the truth is I don't know - because I don't.

>>3889267
you're bottom line is trolling.

>>3889274
yfw you realize it actually is

>>3889266
russel doesn't exist, so neither does his teapot.

>>3889230

typical /sci/tard derailing the thread with his angsty bullshit and quoting dawkins. holy fuck, why do I even come to this board anymore

>>3889298

>he thinks I quoted dawkins

you are so stupid it's almost laughable. how do you even remember to breath?

>>3889288
Chemistry majors have higher admit rates to med school than bio majors.

>>3889298
on that note, what happned to scichan? It was like around july last year.

>>3889267
It seems you're Agnostic Atheist.
Also, you need to upgrade your segregation program, because it's outdated. Now we have two more classifications, facts and bullshit.

>>3889310
at what school? some state school that takes only retards from alabama?

nice try, though

>>3889288
biology major spotted

>>3889288
nope

memegenerator went down... again
i had a good one, too
probably the biology majors DDoS'ing it

>>3889344
much better chart

much better chart

>>3889364

>biology majors
>able to coordinate anything ever

you're mistaken

>>3889364
Same here. Can't load it.

>>3889366
also
> matriculants

good luck chem getting in

>>3889366
>all those biology majors

>>3889366
Math majors and physical science majors confirmed for genius tier.

Biology majors confirmed for worse-than-humanities.

>>3889391
But who, ultimately, gets in to med school? Statistics wise?

OUT OF LUCK TIER

>>3889392
look at the amount of biologists who take the mcat vs the amount of math students

if as many math majors took the mcat as biology majors, it would be more in the field of math.

your common math/physics undergrad is not going to go into a soft science, though

>>3889405
I'm not arguing they don't do better; it is simply that bio looks better on an app.

If you take into account every idiot pre-med bio major you've ever met that could barely pass o-chem, you'd knock half of those off at least.

My brother is an Ophthalmologist, so I play devils advocate. He was medical micro at cornell, I believe.

:/
I'm a physics major, and I've always found biology hard as shit. I've failed biology classes before. I can never remember all the ridiculous complex processes and stages of development and terms like "monozygotic" or whatever. I'm more into things like vector calculus and problem solving. Plus, my friend William has a roommate who's majoring in something that requires him to take an endocrinology course (and thus is presumably biology-related), and he's brilliant as hell. He can spout off detailed descriptions of complex chemical processes in the body, and all sorts of stuff like that.

I've always wondered why people on /sci/ joke about biology being a "soft" science when it seems so hard to me.

>>3889420
Because biology = memorisation
Physics = understanding
Basically, biology is something you could teach a computer.

>>3889420
i'm a 3rd year physics grad.

i despise memorization, i cannot tolerate it unless the material is of particular interest.

>>3889418
All med schools care about is, in rough order

#1 MCAT score
#2 GPA (unless 1/2 are way out of wack)
#3 volutneer work/other bullshit like that

and of course you have to take the pre-requisite classes but thats a given

>>3889420
protip : a ton of biology can be remembered simply by memorizing the rules of language.

>>3889420
Because 'hard', in this instance, is the opposite of 'soft', not 'difficult'.
I still disagree with this notion, however.
>>3889433
Physics is memorization until you actually start doing research.
Same goes for biology.

I'm planning on studying genetics simply because I find it fascinating as the root language of life. I'm not an angry atheist and consider myself to be reasonably intelligent but neither prodigal nor genius-status. Will studying genetics make me a stupid biology parrot, /sci/?

>>3889447
>caring about the opinion of anon's
You already are.

>>3889447
>genetics != biology
go for your dreams.

>>3889439
School also is a huge factor. Some idiot from a state school with a 3.7 takes a backseat from a 3.4 at a real school.

Not going to argue med-school shit. I don't care. I was the one that posted the AAMC chart.

I know from basic charts that majority of BIO get in while it's a small chunk of Chem/Math/Hum or whatever.

Not going to argue straight facts. Do I care who scores better? Hell nah, the USMLE will rape the idiots, even if they manage to get past their first year.

Also, why can't physicists be angry atheists, and like Richard Dawkins?

>>3889445

>Physics is memorization until you actually start doing research.
>Same goes for biology.

The underlying problem with this board. A bunch of high schoolers and undergrads comparing their shit-tier classes and claiming "victory" for a branch of science.

>>3889460
They can.

if you think biology is all about memorization you're stupid and not a real scientist.
despite what you may believe, there's more to a subject then what you fret over during exam week.

Looking into a microscope, conducting experiments and dissecting are the REAL parts of biology and if all you ever thought about while studying biology was how much a bore memorizing is, maybe science isn't the right domain for you.

>>3889462

Some of the images in this thread seem to imply that being an angry atheist is a sign of stupidity, in biology majors, and is not something most physicists or other hard-science majors would subscribe to.

>>3889447

I think when people on here say biology, they mean systematics and ecology.

The former I can understand because it really is just stamp collecting. The latter can get extremely math intensive.

The amount of butthurt my class experienced when we had to work with matrices in an ecology class was astounding.

Really, on a higher level, rote memorization for anything but systematics in biology will get your shit wrecked.

>>3889420
You are probably fairly intelligent and have never needed to memorize things, because you can reason your way through problems.

Biology majors (with good grades) are good memorizers. Their examinations require no real logic or intelligence beyond simple memory, or rather just discipline to go through the flashcards everyday.

>>3889465
>you're stupid and not a real scientist.
ad hominem

>there's more to a subject then what you fret over during exam week.
lolno

>Looking into a microscope, conducting experiments and dissecting are the REAL parts of biology
Except this is lab work (already done previously experimentally verified), not cutting edge breakthroughs in the life sciences.

>setting up a sample for TEM
all my rage

make one of that, stupid site is down

>>3889474
No, every single time "biologist" in mentioned on /sci/ we are referring to pre-med/med school/doctors

and it requires literally zero creative thought or insight to be a doctor. you're not solving any new problems, you're going by the book. the book is really, really fucking long and requires nothing but pure memorization to do

>studying mathematics
>watching from my gilded pedestal as every physical science peasant argues below me
>sit back and collect 300k starting

>>3889476
and applied biology is so god damn fucking inhumanly hard that only 1 or 2 people out of a whole generation are able to come up with groundbreaking work, like polio and tuberculosis vaccines.

>>3889494
>mathematics
>not just applied logic

undergrads, undergrads everywhere...

>>3889490
doctors are expected to conduct research

now you can say that its all just trial and error, but give them a break, they are working on the most complex thing in the known universe.

>>3889490

>No, every single time "biologist" in mentioned on /sci/ we are referring to pre-med/med school/doctors

I'm not so sure about that, but if that is the case sign me up to this forced meme then.

Most pre-med students suck ass and they don't get any better when they get into med school.

Once had a pre-med flip his shit in a class called "Evolution" midway through the year.

>"Why am I forced to take this!? I don't even believe evolution is real! I'm a creationist!"

I about shit my pants.

>>3889477
the first postulate of "you're stupid and not a real scientist" didn't rely upon the second, and is thus not an ad hominem argument; both are true simultaneously for those who hold the sentiment that biology requires only memorization.

about the second, you can do great on a chemistry exam by understanding theory but lab skills are what make a real chemist. if you walk into a chemistry class without the idea that you want to act like a chemist, you have no business being there.

lab work? that's what real biologists do. show me one example of a cutting edge breakthrough in the life sciences that didn't rely upon empiricism.

>>3889515
90% of doctors you see for healthcare have never done actual research. like original research. just regurgitated lab instructions

>>3889523
prove it.

>>3889523
the same could be said about any field of science, really.

Most people learn what it takes to get their job done, and nothing else.

>>3889516
Pre-meds are cancer.

Almost every biology major on any campus is a pre-med. At least 95%. None of them are there to go to grad school and become a biologist.

I despise pre-meds, too.

>>3889519

Hey, If you are a biologist or chemist, I was hoping t meet one tonight but didn't have the energy to make and bump a thread.

Where do people get their prices for chemical and biological reagents? is there a good lookup site to get a feel for what things cost?

For example, I was reading papers tonight.

"Tailspike proteins are costly to produce".
"It is expensive to create antibodies".
"Bovine Serum Albumin is cheap compared to some of it's polymer alternatives (when used as a blocker)

I don't really have a feel for things. I wish I did. I would really like to know about tailspike proteins. What does "expensive" mean? does that just mean "expensive to get a batch made, but with a low marginal cost per unit volume", or does it mean "expensive in general"?

how expensive is expensive? If I wanted to coat a particle of 100nm diameter with antibodies, what would that cost in terms of materials?

funny thing is you have a better chance of getting into med school as a biomed. engineer (gpa is worth more then a bio's cuz it's harder) AND if you don't get into med school you can still get a good (not great, but good) engineer job while biologists are working at starbucks

>>3889543

I certainly agree with you that pre-med is dumb. Much better to get a real degree.

>>3889543
Biology and premed is useless. None of them ever make it in. They all end up in some shitty Guatemalan dental school or a full time McJob.

>>3889542
i'm not a biologist mang, so i can't help ya find any sites :/
they're probably not just referring to reagents but lab space too, which can be really fuckn hard to get

>>3889542

>"expensive in general"

Like hundreds to thousands of dollars for a few gs or mLs of what you're looking for.

Novel antibodies require biophysicists to tinker with the systems we have to produce the proper antibody.

For example, a research at my uni. works on producing antibodies to heavy metals. She presented at a mining conference with an antibody strip test for uranium concentration in soil.

She had twenty offers to buy the tech and there isn't eve a prototype yet. The demand is skyhigh and so is the price.

The big providers of things are Sigma-Aldrich, ProMega, and QiaGen though.

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/united-states.html

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/Lookup.do?N5=All&N3=mode+matchpartialmax&N4=antibodies&a
mp;D7=0&D10=antibodies&N1=S_ID&ST=RS&N25=0&F=PR

>>3889562

Yeah.. I found BSA all right, and it was educational.

but the thing is, it's not going to be the cost of buying these things off the shelf... tailspike proteins (it's part of a virus) would have to be built for the process, and I have totally read papers by people who have procured them... but I really want to know how much they cost. If I want to ever do anything in phages, it's going to be critical to know what a technique would cost if upscaled to commercial use. And to do so, I would need to know where people get all this shit from. Everyone just says things are "cheap", or "expensive", but no one ever says what that means.

>>3889569

Thanks. that looks like very much the sort of thing I am looking for.


I am not worried about the hundreds to thousands of dollars though. I am more worried about "If I ever want to buy a liter of this stuff, is that going to be a thousand times the price per mililiter?"

It seems like the custom dna synthesis price lists on that first link is the insight I was hoping for.

>mfw /sci/ just now gets this meme

i have friend who his a biology major

he just dropped his pre-algebra class for the 3rd semester in a row

>>3889616

>i have friend who his a biology major

>he just dropped his pre-algebra class for the 3rd semester in a row

I don't know of any university that will accept someone without at least algebra.

So either your friend goes to community college or is still in high school.

I refuse to believe that anyone is taking math courses in university that I took in sixth grade.

>>3889616
>he just dropped his pre-algebra class for the 3rd semester in a row

>>3889616
It would be funnier if it were true.

>>3889629

Actually, as a guy in his final year of an engineering degree, I know for a fact that universities DO teach linear algebra. I am taking a 400 level numerical analysis course that builds heavily on the matrix foundation I got in first year, and I still have the textbook on my bookshelf.

>>3889204
>the right thing to do is to believe in what is currently prevailing in science.

Troll detected.

>>3889668

No.

I'm a biologist. (well studying biology and working in a lab at any rate) and I find this shit hilarious.

Any self respecting bio major would find nothing but humor here in my humble opinion.

>>3889667

>implying pre-algebra is the same as linear algebra

>>3889458
>Some idiot from a state school

/sci/ elitism at it's worst

>>3889676
>biology
>hard science

>>3889674

Yes. shut the fuck up.

>>3889710

What, you're too edgy for science? Too smart for that?

Here's a cool idea: never ever speak again until you reach high school.

Nothing like arguing about majors.

Stay undergrad, /sci/

They don't know biology has math...

>>3889767
>math
>pre-algebra

>>3889344

Bio (and chem) major here

630/780

fuck physics and engineering.

>>3889755
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>>3889827

see >>3889511

bio major here.

I actually dont suck at math took higher level IB maths were we learned things like 4d vector calculations, calculus at college level and advanced topology just to mention a few.

now i am taking an intro to psychological statistics as a filler class.

it is literally what i expect to be doing at the age of 14.

seriously

the hardest thing we learned so far is binomial distribution

we spent an entire lecture on how to calculate mean median and range.

I handed in homework where a question told us to show the unrounded scores of a person.

i should that his score is irrational. they marked me wrong when i asked why? they said ohh by unrounded we mean to like 4 decimals.

are you fucking kidding me?

I lost marks because as my calculation i wrote

sqrt sum of x^2* sum of y^2

in proper notation and got marked down for not showing working

bitch are you mentally handicapped that is my working.

so yeah make fun of bio majors all you want its probably true

>>3890914
We're talking about the foolish bio majors. You know who i'm talking about. The ones who're going to end up being housewives or whatever.

http://chanarchive.org/request_votes

You know what to do, faggots.

>>3890935
EK thread?

aww yeah mid-term just had 50 multiple choice questions. you jelly non bio fags

>>3888971
>implying you can have answer that your unique to you and you aren't influenced by things you experience.


you're an idiot

math isn't required for something to be a science because math isn't a science.

biology can still be a hard science without math

so fuck you all

>>3889045
oh lordy. I lold there is no such fucking bias in the book you spastic

>>3889134
dawkins doesnt write on atheism, he disputes creationism and ideas of reilgious fundamentalists. his concerns are real when you consider the people today trying to get creationism taught in schools as an equal idea to evolution (it is not equal at all).

fucking hipsters, man....

>>3889239
>Let me consider the evidence. Well, I guess I'm truly ignorant on this issue

Do you know what that is? It's not believing in god. well done, you're an atheist. fucking deal with it

>>3888987
it's sad because it's true

i've heard many students in evolutionary biology whining about all the game theory and statistics in their work

which is actually reasonable because that shit is hard at graduate level

>>3889344
LOL engineers

>math and physics confirmed for master thinking race
>engineers confirmed for computer slave race

now fetch me these calculations, engineers, i have better things to think about

Look, I know I'm going to sound like a butthurt biologist, but these threads are pathetic.

Math is not science. The amount of math in a given subject doesn't make it more or less valid as a science, because math is just a tool, a means to an end. And it's a hopeless misconception that biology requires "less math" then a lot of other scientific fields. Your average chem student will do just as much math as a bio student. A physics student might do more but who really gives a shit? How does that make it any more or less valuable as a field? It doesn't.There's a constant stream of whining about how biology is somehow "inferior" as a field, but nobody seems to be denying that it's actually pretty important to the advancement of humanity- unlike physics.

Math is not hard. This constant, petty insistence that the only reason somebody would be a bio/humanities/whatever major "only because they're bad at math" is a pompous circlejerk between people that aren't really that intelligent. Seriously, grow up.

Give me one good reason to choose Physics over Biology

>>3891564
the criticism in biology is that it's not able to predict things well; there are no true laws. as time goes on, people will probably have to conclude that this isn't due to a lack of tools, but it's the nature of the science itself. it would be like trying to shed light on darkness so you can see darkness better. math gives a more rigorous way to predict phenomenon, but what kind of math can be modeled onto something like cellular biology? differential equations? only by the extension of physics. even then it's vastly oversimplified in order to make it like physics (hey they still work amazingly this way!)

fuck all the people who drag math into science and treat it like a holy statue- it's like a bunch of primitive tribesmen hailing a god. math has nothing to do with these asinine arguments about intellectual superiority, that's college kids stuff.

anyways, these threads are still hilarious because they make fun of premeds and dawkin cocksuckers, who flood the biology undergrad department not because they really like science, but because they want to have some sort of social status/superiority. it kinda mirrors /sci/, in a way.

>>3891492
sucks when you're gonna have to draw conclusions from a graph, then realise that mathematics teaches you how to plot a graph

>>3891656
>>3891564


i'll agree biology being a hard science only if you agree that hard sciences are inherently superior to soft sciences

>>3891656
Fair enough. But I think that biology as a discipline is more about trying to understand the natural world as it is rather than trying to make predictions about the future. After all, biology is something that can be more easily manipulated into something directly useful to humanity than say physics.
>anyways, these threads are still hilarious because they make fun of premeds and dawkin cocksuckers,
Not going to deny for a second that those people exist and that they are annoying, but every "hard" science has a similar group of adherents in college. Chemistry and physics are just as bad- IMO chemistry students are the worst when it comes to being mindlessly pretentious, but that's just my personal experience. It doesn't make it fair to shit all over the discipline itself though. That's like saying philosophy is meaningless as a field because of internet pseudo-intellectuals.
>>3891950
There is no such thing as a "soft science," that's a purely derogative/polemical term made up by a few really pretentious math whores as a way of denigrating everything that doesn't directly rely on computations.

>>3888579

heh heh

>>3892108
Clearly understanding genes has been more useful than understanding statics and electricity. Seriously, did you even think before you started typing?

>>3888579

>>3893670
Oh man, the butthurt this has spawned is hilarious.

True story

C'mon, guys, I'm eatin' you alive. And where I live, Calc I and 2 semesters of physics are required for Bio.

>>3893764
Just keep stroking your precious ego that was bruised, we dont mind.

>>3889433
This.
Another physics major who failed to make flashcards in a bio class. :(

Microbiology is chemistry in disguise. Macrobiologists are the ones no one likes.

>>3889461
Lol. I can't think of a time where my physics knowledge was based off of memorization at all.

>>3893930

I'm a biofag who had the misfortune of having an MIT alum for a physics professor. Pic related. So smart, and yet so dumb.