/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11632505
The fact that you even ask this question is like a pitbull barking at a battle tank.

If they are that advanced, our nuclear energy to them is like a stone axe is to us.

>>11632505
Type 1 I’d say harmable with nukes, though probably not an instant kill on a big ship.

Type 2 have such mastery over energy they can probably just absorb the entire output of a nuclear warhead and thank earth for the snack.

>>11632505
from what "we" know in regards to life being an extremely rare occurrence, why would aliens come to earth just to destroy us?

>>11633593
shits and giggles

>>11632505
>What do you think are Earth's chances in a war against a Type I or even Type II civilization
None.
Then again there is no reason they would go to war against Earth. After all what could we have that they did not already have in spades?

>>11632505
They could glass earth from orbit with nukes and we would have no way to stop them.

if they were dumb enough to hover motherships over us like independence day, then lots of these, but bigger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob#Missing_steel_bore_cap

>>11632505
A type II civilization would be capable of launching a RKM at Earth with such energy that the entire planet would be instantly vaporized.

>>11633593
Submission and slavery. They are probably desperate for new resources.

>>11634459
What resources does Earth have that you can't find on any other planets, beside life?

>>11632505
We would be fucked. Let alone fighting a huge ass spaceship fleet, they would just have to throw a big asteroid at us.

>>11634459
Absolutely not. Any civilization that could casually travel to our solar system would not be in the least bit desperate for resources. Take a minute to think about the raw energy required to move objects from alpha Centauri to our system

>>11634538

>>11632505
Type I can't wage interstellar war. Type II is the minimum to pose an X-risk level threat, and at that point we're not even Type I ourselves yet.

>>11632505
None. We wouldn't even know we're at war. If they want Earth we'd just see wave after wave of devastating diseases that massively depopulate the planet leaving only a few hunter-gatherer types alive, while not harming any other species. If they want to get rid of us entirely, then the killing star scenario and that's it.

>>11633849
>wheeled vehicle with prank empty-suit driver crashes into spaceship
>goddamn earth kids!
>type i civ on our doorstep

PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER PROJECT CASABA-HOWITZER

>>11634636
Unironically they might actually want our intellectual and artistic produce. Which would include memes.

>>11634674
How the fuck would they send a disease? They probably don't have DNA remotely similar to ours.

>>11634891
literally just cop 1 nigga in 1975 and go away

if they have the technology to cross interstellar distances, they can deflect our means of detecting aircraft

>>11634891
>Arrive on system
>establish semi-permanent base
>observe planet and catalogue most dangerous microorganisms
>get a couple human specimens
>design one killer pathogen after another
I know I'm skipping a ton of steps, but just look how many possibilities genetic engineering and AI-aided research are opening already. It would be almost trivial for a type I to just rework already existing microorganisms into world-ending plagues.

>>11632577
I can kill you with my stone axe bitch

>>11634538
the strange and powerful collective consciousness

>>11634787
So far the only plausible answer. In which case they would do all to preserve Earth and not interfere, certainly not invade it.

>>11633593
Because they can.

>>11635326
Wait, so to destroy us, they have to LAND, establish a fucking habitable base, establish an entire city because you need a lot of workers for this project, discover earthian genetics, become better than us at genetic engineering while literally starting from scratch ? All the while deflecting all attacks and wearing space suits?

Why not just shoot from space?

>>11632505
>Fermi paradox
>Type II civilization
>Aliens

>>11634891
Even our technology is good enough to manufacture a virus in a lab.

>>11632505
Literally zero chance. Against a hypothetical threat at the scale of Type 2 civilizations our chances are probably going into the negative even.

>>11633593
to own the libs

>>11632505
>aliens show up
>billions of drones swarm the whole planet and kill everyone
>aliens move in

>>11634046
>66 km/s 2-tons steel block
We need to do this again

>>11632505
nothing can go faster than the speed of light. the aliens on board the ship have lived for many millenia away from their homes. the natural increase in the sense of speed of time is most likely present for these aliens, so the trip for them didn't seem that long. their ship is of a very great size, at least a billion inhabitants to simulate a planet like society. why are there here? we do not know but a weird structure is spotted approaching earth. for a type 2 civilization, a ship with 1 billion on board is nothing, they send many of these in various directions out to find more life. the massive structure approaches, what do we do!!!?? fire the nukes! it actually does damage but nothing compared to the size of the massive structure, perhaps this is not a war ship, perhaps they only wanted to meet us... oh no.. we've actually killed a few million of them... as they have overcome aging and all of the sorts the loss of life is extremely uncommon for these aliens and they prioritise safety. why wasn't the ship armored? all previous planers with life they have examined had no sign of civilization. after the nuke, to ensure safety, the aliens blast earth with some kind of lazer and everything ends in an instant. even though these few million that died are nothing compared to the trillions that live, the events taken place would've been seen as a great tragedy, greater than the holocaust. we started the war and we caused ourselves to all die.

>>11635848
Yeah, a pathogen is a shitty idea. The amount of damage they could do by just raining the same bog-standard nuclear weapons we already have on us would be more than enough to wipe us out completely, nevermind all the other options they'd have.

>>11636556
Why the fuck would you even bother with nukes when you can just drop a few asteroids on our heads from orbit?
They would have to pass by tons of the shit to even get to earth.

>>11632505
our only defence is the distance between stars

>>11636556
Maybe if they want the planet intact? A nuclear waste is not really worth anything.

>>11636573
The energy and equipment needed to maneuver an asteroid so it collides with Earth would be way greater than what is needed to drop some fusion bombs down on Earth.

>>11632505
Type 2: massive reversed gravitational waves hit the earth and suck every bit of water dry. As well all the water of Europa, Enceladus, Miranda and Tryton. Somehow the need to harvest there water for there new Dyson-sphere.
Welcome to Sand-earth.

>>11634538
Smug internet-addicted NEETs, the most powerful resource this side of Alpha Centauri.

>>11635848
Even easier for an advanced civilisation: just block all sunlight from reaching Earth. A few months later all advanced life on Earth is frozen to death.

>>11634459
>>11634538
Don't even have to visit planets.
A single asteroid holds more resources than all the minerals we've ever mines

Life is the only thing unique on Earth and any civilization can cultivate their own via farming

Is there any scifi novel that details what an alien invasion would really look like?

>>11637508
The Killing Star is spot-on and mostly realistic. Footfall deals with a very specific scenario where all the conditions meet so current age humans can scrape a victory. The Three Body Problem trilogy, for all its faults, does a great job at showing how utterly fucked we'd be and the insane range of the many plans governments and individuals cook up to survive.

Hows about these:

1.) If they didn't care about life that isn't humans, they could just send a bunch of ozone-destroying chemicals into the upper atmosphere now and then, until nearly everything on surface is dead from the radiation.

2.) If they didn't care about the surface being easily reachable, they could just send a few large asteroids our way and wait for the surface to cool/warm.

>>11637711
And why exactly would they exterminate us? Erase competition?
If humanity evolved enough to reach interstellar travel would we become space Nazis?
I don't know it may be a way more expensive option but I see an alien invasion more like expanding an empire and obtaining slave labour. Or maybe even turning the losers Into vassals.
Then again I am just fantasizing and there is no way to know what type of ethics and culture an alien invader would have.

>>11637975
In Killing Star, we got exterminated because when we went interplanetary, we became too dangerous of a neighbor

>>11635583
And what will his tank do to you before you get close enough?

>>11637508
Maybe a Tyranid hive fleet from WH40k?

>>11638442
No.

>>11633593
To escape damnation.

>>11632505
Any war scenario would most likely be extermination because there it is unlikely they would want to conquer us and need local resources intact. And in case of extermination they could just bomb us with whatever they want, even hijacked asteroids and we could not do anything

>>11633593
Eliminate competition
In a non ftl universe you can't just leave civilizations around just because they are harmless to you now, interstellar travel times are measured in hundreds or thousandso f years, it took us about 300-500 to go from feudalism to nuclear power and we are already closing in on AI which might be the end tier tech that rapidly unlocks everything else. Even if all aliens don't think like that it's an internally consistent model of thought and easily explanable from evolutionaly principles too.

>>11634674
> wave after wave of deadly diseases
Hmmmmmmmmm

>>11637975
>why would they exterminate us?
What do you do when your house is infested with ants?

>>11637975
>why exactly would they exterminate us
Wouldn't you? Imagine you were an advanced alien species and you came across this planet and watched it for a while. You see us drop nuclear bombs on each other, constantly at war, hundreds of thousands of people murdered each year, hundreds of thousands raped each year. As a whole we are not a good people.

>>11632505
>independence day
>giant cannon to zap the city
>not just lobbing a big rock at it instead

>>11636597
>The energy and equipment needed to maneuver an asteroid so it collides with Earth would be way greater
They just traveled interstellar distances, delta v on an asteroid is going to be childs play.
For fucks sake nasa is about to send a mission up to divert an asteroid just to see if it can be done.

>>11640330
>delta v on an asteroid is going to be childs play.
Especially since they can play with a huge number of potential candidates further out that may just need a nudge to set them on an eventual collision course.

>>11640330
Really? Using what?
I was hoping they would just use paint because the idea of using the sun's light and light absorbing paint sounds interesting

If it's a nuke I would be both impressed and dissapointed. Impressed because they still have the guts and dissapointed because that's just common sense. Bombs can move anything. Not necessarily in 1 piece

Not a single Earth ICBM is designed to hit a target halfway between the Earth and the Moon.

Alien ship could park there and destroy us from orbit and we couldn't respond.

Even if we manage to launch a modified nuclear missile they would have so many hours warnings that it would be a joke. They would laugh!

>>11640379
I think they're just going to use engine thrust to see if they can nudge it off course a little.
Hopefully its the ground floor of capturing an asteroid in earth orbit for resource extraction.

>>11640608
I have no idea what they are going to do but I am confident that in order to move an asteroid of acceptable size, the engines would need to be so much more powerful than what is needed for launch.

Not a rocket scientist though

>>11641057
A little ion engine will move a big asteroid no problem, so long as you aren't in a hurry.

>>11641100
I mean, that's kinda my point.
Newton's law. You cannot move anything without exerting more force than its mass.

I don't know what they are planning but if I want to go for asteroid mining, I would keep my expectations low

>>11641100
>>11640608
OH, I get it. They are panning to just nudge it in a more slanted direction while still keeping it in its orbit? Sort of like swimming with the current instead of against it but in a slightly slanted direction.

Yeah, that would work even with a small engine

>Newton's law. You cannot move anything without exerting more force than its mass.

>>11641133
>Newton's law.
There are more than one.
>You cannot move anything without exerting more force than its mass.
This is not one of them. It is just wrong.
F = m * a

>>11632505
>Type I
If a k1 civ has interstellar flight at modestly relativistic speeds, they could kill us just be dumping a few tons of garbage overboard before slowing down down their ships on their initial approach.

>Type II
We would lose against a K2 civilization, and we would so very fast.
If they just wanted us dead they could configure their dyson swarm into a nicoll-dyson beam and either torch earth or shoot RKMs at us.

>>11633593
The only reason I can think of is because they want the galaxy, or this section of the universe, to themselves and don't want the competition.

>>11642494
>because they want the galaxy, or this section of the universe, to themselves and don't want the competition
The galaxy is enormous, is competition a realistic scenario?

>>11644004
Yes, it is feasible to collapse everything within a billion light years into a single gravitationally bound region. and it makes sense to do it if you're an incredibly long lived civilization.

>>11633593
To periodically prune the galaxy of lifeforms that one day may become type II and threaten them.

>>11641133
>You cannot move anything without exerting more force than its mass.

>>11634046
no better way to celebrate new years eve then shooting stealplates with 240000km/h into the air

To even come here aliens would need FTL, or a source of almost equally significant propulsion. This renders any and all defenses moot.

>>11634538
we have a unusual high amount of gold in our solar system and the surrounding ones.
actualy it's pretty cool, scientists assume it came from a double neutronstar system billions of years ago.

>>11632505
No chance at all. Even the greatest sci-fi writers can't come up with a way for humans to win except by shear fluke or luck.

>>11633593
>>11637975
I would destroy us too desu, humans are a plague. Just look at the shit we are doing on Earth, now imagine it on a galactic scale. One thing we are already doing in space is shitting it up with garbage.

Plus, habitable planets are not exactly easy to come by, so getting rid of the pests on this one would be the first step before settling down.

>>11634891
Make one? Some believe that life came to Earth on a comet, so in a way, we are already an extraterrestrial biological attack. War of the Worlds ends with aliens dying from a virus that is harmless to us, so why can't it happen the other way round? Just get or make a virus that is harmless to aliens but will spread like wildfire among humans, and just wait a few years in orbit. then mop up any survivors. The response to wuflu already shows you how utterly fucked we are if a deadly virus comes.

>>11637643
>The Killing Star
>Six alien ships patrolling through the post-attack solar system continually broadcast the song "We Are the World" by Michael Jackson and Lionel Richie
Kek, I like these aliens, great sense of humor.

>>11632505
Just coof at them.

>>11644298
>I would destroy us too desu, humans are a plague
Why not kill yourself? It's a start.

>>11632505
In open conflict that doesn't just wipe Earth out with a relativistic kinetic kill vehicle? Media Terrorism.
If you can capture some of the physical aliens, torture and rape them on global broadcast. Feed them to Kodiak bears. Set Ron Jeremy and Mandingo on them. Expose them Earth's bountiful wildlife and environments. All while humanity laughs at their suffering. Watch them bend the knee/tentacle.

>>11634046
Thunderwells are also an excellent option.

>>11632505
We have a retarded nuke cannon someone designed. Hilarious shit anon. Cheap as fuck to build, easy to lure a mother ship over.

>>11632505
>Aliens are advanced but not advanced enough to value trade over conquering and warmongering.
I hate this cliche.

>>11644741
If aliens are advanced enough to show up on our doorstep, we have literally nothing of value to offer them except intangible things like the satisfaction of watching us suffer. They likely have automated production systems that makes human efforts utterly worthless. Do you trade with an ant hive in your garden, or do you lay down some poison and repurpose their territory for your vastly more productive means?

>>11637975
If I was the leader of a type I, the first thing I'd do is start seeding the universe with berserker probes designed to spread stealthily and hobble potential competitors without ever revealing their presence.
The reasoning is obvious: Everything is a possible threat until it's been sufficiently investigated and proved harmless. I'm hardly xenophobic, but it would he downright irresponsible to not run a widespread surveillance and threat countering system in a universe where the speed of light is such a dick kicker. Otherwise by the time you become aware of a new intelligence race, they might already have teched to your level with the goal of wiping you out.
And I'm empathetic, soft. I would have my probes merely fuck with any found potential threats until a deep threat analysis could be made. Someone with less of a sense of interspecies preservation might just have their probes destroy everything they find.

>>11638438
One guy can take out a poorly positioned tank with nothing but a few molotovs. Get the engine to stall by taking up all the oxygen, smoke out the occupants. Tactics without toys is rough going, but toys without tactics is sure to fail.

>>11644206
No they wouldn't, even ships traveling at moderately relativistic speeds would be sufficient. Especially if they had life extension of some sort or were post biological.

>>11644298
>habitable planets
A civilization advanced enough to engage in interstellar flight probably isn't too concerned with these. They're more likely to outright build most of their living space with rotating habitats.

>>11644728
>>11644586
Even if they were effective enough, a decently large civilization would have huge armadas. So taking out a few ships is insufficient.

>>11644741
Trade and War are useful depending on the situation you're in. Just because you're "advanced" doesn't mean you have no use for the latter.
There might be an alien spices that don't really care much for or even abhor war, but have every capacity to engage in it if need be.

>>11645830
>rotating habitats
Spaceships are cool and all, but it would be nice to have an occasional rock to stand on. For like an outpost or holiday destination, while your spaceship is undergoing maintenance.

>>11647307
Unless there is a major revolution in propulsion, even interplanetary flights take so much time you will have to be able to do maintenance throughout the journey.

>>11647824
Then just have earth as a holiday spot then. Or bulldoze it to make way for a galactic highway.

>>11649810
Back in the 60's we were promised work on the moon and holidays on Mars.
What went wrong? And where is my jet pack!?

>>11651159
>where is my jet pack!?
That shit was always normalfag popular mechanics level bullshit. People who know anything about aviation made the personal flying machine decades ago. They're quite nice now.

>>11651313
That's not a jet pack, that's a backpack with a big fan in it.

>>11651333
That's what I'm saying. "Jet packs" are the söylent of aviation. Respected by nobody because it's meme shit with no use case.
A paramotor lets you foot launch and land, fly for a few hours at 30-40mph, and not fucking die in the process. The cons?
>That's not a jet pack! You can't just put a big fan on a backpack and fly under a paraglider wing!
Haha paramotor goes swoosh swoosh.

>>11634694
my fucking sides

>>11651159

Baby sitting blacks

Why would aliens want to harm us?
The universe has infinite resources and space. If they have the tech to reach us, we have nothing they need.

>>11651635
Proactive problem prevention. It could be that occasionally a planet with life spins off a species of clever assholes who make life difficult for said aliens, so they like to send kill probes off to take care of mold growths before they end up having to tear the whole house apart, so to speak.

>>11634538
New psychotropic drugs. (These are aliens that cross the universe looking for new ways to get high)

>>11651159
anon, I...

>>11652103
And almost all if it went to war lords and the planet raping corporations who organized the "aid" in the first place.

>>11632505
I've spent hours playing EDF on normal mode, i think we're good.

>>11651635
They may want certain cultural artifacts, or might want to know about the history of life on our planet.

>>11651313
>People who know anything about aviation
Pic- related makes than scared in year 2020.

>>11651159
jews...not even kidding space is considered off limits in the torah and they worked to defund space exploration. So the money was spent on dsygenic blacks.

>>11632505
We have to think abstract: neutrino beams, quantum weapons, robots and even super-humans and psychics.

>>11654444
>space is considered off limits in the torah
Cite?
And it is not as if Israel does not have their own satellites. And they also had an astronaut.

>>11654289
>Another stupid expensive meme machine that has no range and will crash with no survivors in the event of a failure.

>>11654289
Imagine what those rotors could do to little kids.

>>11634606
What if they were intending to colonizing the Earth?
You mean you didn't think of that?

>>11639918
>deadly diseases
>deadly
Well we can be sure that CV19 isn't caused by aliens then. They would need something more potent than a flu.

>>11644298
>The response to wuflu already shows you how utterly fucked we are if a deadly virus comes

This so much. 100 years of medical advances, numerous pandemics. The big hit of the Spanish flu, and what we do we get? Unreliable information. governments acting like panic stricken hysterical bitches after the horse has already bolted. WHO is a joke. There isn't even a global standard for certifying cause of death for CV19, so who the fucks knows what figures are reliable or not? Imagine if it had really been serious, then we would have been right royally fucked.

>>11635880
found the retarded faggot