/sci/ - Science & Math

>>16109699
We are all cultural christians because that is what we learn when we grow up.

>>16109699
most people who were into the nu atheist movement in the 2000s have since gone one of two directions: they either tenaciously latched onto turbo wokeness as their pseudo-religion/meaning of life, or softened towards the position in that headline. i know i'm in the latter camp

>>16109699
Man this bait has got to be 20 years old by now

>>16109699
>World famous
Retardation without salvation.

He had a stroke recently and can't speak properly any more. The heritage foundation is working overtime in the UK so this poor old man is being branded around to talk about trannies and brown people being bad.

>>16109713
I'm both

>>16109699
so the eclipse memes were right?

>>16109713
When the choice is stark-raving bonkers child-sterilising devilry or conceding that religious tradition can have merit at population AND individual levels, it's not a hard choice.

>>16109741
You make a good case for the former

>>16109741
we've simply learned in the last 20 years that a society run by "rational" atheists will indeed devolve into the exact kind of theocratic retardation as foretold by that south park episode

>>16109751
>If there's one thing I hate it's theocratic retardation!
>Welp time to vote Republican

>>16109699
>I wish to have all the benefits of living in a Christian society without having any of the personal restrictions of leading my life as a Christian.
Other than atheists, what other group of parasites have for ages made an effort to live amongst Christians while absolving themselves of the need to put any effort into making or keeping Christian society Christian?

>>16109720
Relishing the suffering of others is a sin christcuck boy

Atheism is a VOID, intellectually and morally.

Aren't we all "cultural christians"? That's hardly a religion and you would be retarded not to be one in Europe when the alternative is being a "cultural muslim"

>>16109699
>>16109760
You (deliberately, of course) misunderstand what is meant by "cultural Christian"; it very much refers to keeping those personal restrictions and other trappings of the faith, all the ethics and traditions. Just without belief in a higher power. It is very, very much about the effort of making or keeping (culturally) Christian society (culturally) Christian.

Jews are, of course, not culturally Christian but they are part of the Abrahamic faiths so it's a pointless distinction really. Orthodox Jews are quite conservative and vote accordingly. It's funny, you have so many allies but you're just too full of hate and wilful ignorance to accept their help.

>>16109761
>I'm an expert in Christianity because I've never read The Bible
What is it about atheism that attracts narcissists?

>>16109770
>If I make an MSPaint picture of a smug liberal calling me out on my hypocrisy it makes me not a hypocrite

>>16109699
What's next? The Pope announces he's Christian too?

>>16109768
>Jews are, of course, not culturally Christian but they are part of the Abrahamic faiths so it's a pointless distinction really.
No it isn't, the jewish religion teaches jews to abuse Christians as much as they can get away with, to treat them with the same respect one would give a farm animal and ultimately to wipe them out

>>16109699
wtf he's literally me

>>16109759
voting dem/left leads you into its own brand of dogmatic 80iq theocracy but as a leftard i'm not surprised that flew over your head

>>16109759
>if you're not with team A, then you must be team B!
seek help, you are suffering from profound mental retardation
kill yourself

>>16109776
That's weird considering the Jewish religious texts are older than Christianity and also, you seem to be describing Christians' historical attitude towards Jews

>>16109779
>>16109781
lol

>>16109770
Pic related is unironically correct, as usual the non-religious understand christianism better than its retarded followers. Now turn the other cheek, cuckboy.

>>16109770
Tell me the leap in logic that lead you to conclude that others ought to practice what you preach in order to tell you to practice what you preach

>>16109782
>That's weird considering the Jewish religious texts are older than Christianity
the jews were precognizant enough to lump every non-jew into the same category so their scriptures would always be relevant
>goy, goyim

>>16109796
Well I guess that's one trait that Christians took from their predecessors then

>>16109781
>I am le above it all, rational centrist who forges his own path, not beholden to any single creed
>Welp time to vote Republican

>>16109783
scotland just signed into law the wokist equivalent of blasphemy laws in case you missed it

>>16109802
lol nice

>>16109699
So does he go to church now? Did he always?
I basically feel the same as him. Lets face it it's impossible to be a sincere christian as an educated westerner in the 21st century but christianity is a big part of european culture and has many valuable teachings.

>>16109802
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-government-backs-jk-rowling-scottish-hate-crime-law-challenge-2024-04-02/

>>16109801
go to >>>/pol/ if you want to screech about politics

>>16109802
M8 you're all the same headless chickens clucking WOOOKE WOKEWOKEWOKE and you're telling others about being dogmatic

>>16109721
>>16109741
>>16109751
>>16109760
>>16109779
>>16109781
>>16109796
>>16109802
Welp you heard 'im lads >>16109819
Guess we all better head over there

>>16109809
That's all right, most Christians are neither sincere nor educated

>>16109699
I know this is like trying to explain color to a blind person, but the spiritual part of Christianity is far more important than the cultural & moral framework side

I have a few friends that recently started going to Church and Bible study groups but they do not believe in any of the spiritual side and see it as superstition.
When I've grilled them on it, the most coherents answer I could get were "cmon..I stopped believing in Santa a looong time ago" and "we know the universe came from the Big Bang (???), so the universe is dictated by physical laws which smarter people than mr have already figured out"

What do they get out of praying and going to mass if they think it's just for show?
I'd be bored as hell in church if I were just going through the motions and didn't actually believe in the words being said each week

also,
is Dawkins just saying this because of brown people in the UK?
As for how it changes evolutionary histort; I suppose if people have a greater likelihood of partnering up by being Cultural Christians, then we will see more of them. Not sure how it would affect the gene pool at large *shrugs*

>>16109834
>projection

>>16109699
>i don't want to do anything myself to remove kebab, but i want others to volunteer to do it for me so i can continue my luxurious life pretending to be some sort of special snowflake university genius
cowardly and self serving, typical of an atheist

>>16109699
>he identifies as
That's not what the verb "to identify" means

>>16109708
He isnt a cultural christian, as there is nothing in his culture that stems from the belief in the holiness of Jesus Christ, meaningless words, just like the retards who think not murdering/killing is a Christian value lmao

>>16109969
Many people in Europe get baptized, do communion, confirmation, marry in the church and then are buried in christian cemeteries. But they don't go to church regularly, only when other members of their family get baptized, do communion, marry or die. They don't read The Bible regularly but they say they believe in God.

Wouldn't you call those cultural christians? They did all of that just because is what everyone does around them and what they were told but they don't practice the religion much. It's more a tradition than a religion that people practice regularly.

>I'm an atheist but I'm also a Christian
>I'm a woman but also I have a penis

>>16109969
He wants to define objective moral values and duties, objective value to human life and to women, rigorous metaphysics, and a crusade against the kebabs.

Seems a little late to join them post-invasion though lol

>>16109963
>be a Buddhist
>see Hawking's remark
>smile

>>16109801
please see >>16109781

Pascal's wager takes another scalp.

>>16110016
seems the solution is clear
>disregard it and then repent once you exhaust all other options

>>16109763
well duh, retard, you axct as if that's some profound statement

>>16109993
>I'm retarded and don't understand thought

I think he means
>people should be decent and modest and upstanding and meet their community socially at least once a week but NOT believe in a god to do so
i might be wrong

>>16110107
No god?
then endless invader hordes, hedonism, thugs, and mass medical experimentation. This was your choice libshit. Get in the pod. You sound like you have depression and should be euthanized for your sake.

Oh my fucking G-d it's real
Hahahahahahaha
The absolute fucking state
The fucking STATE of atheism lmao

>>16109993
Stop mocking G-d's perfection you accuser!!!

>>16109699
He is just subtly making fun of the fact that most Christians don't actually believe in the bible as a literal fact and have adopted a completely different globohomo culturally blended mutt minded kumbaya4all ideology.

>>16109802
No, they signed a law that says you can't make threats and calls to violence against protected groups of people.

>>16110197
so you're saying scotland just signed into law the wokist equivalent of blasphemy laws
>I'm an atheist but I'm also a Christian
>I'm a woman but also I have a penis
>I'm Scottish but also I'm from Pakistan

>>16110204
No, I said they signed into law criminal punishment for publicly threatening people or calling for violence against them.

>>16110016
No, more like christianity stole from another status quo ideology and is basically just secular humanism with a hint of magic thinking and completely voluntary rituals at this point.

>>16109699
What he really means is he wants to live in a white society, but such wrong think is fobidden, so his confused brain has found a way to be racist without being racist.

>>16109963
>also you just have to have faith that the light is there because obviously its not the type of light that can literally be seen, measured, and studied, but you will totally see it the moment you die when you will get rewarded with everything you could ever want as long as you did everything I ever told you to.

>>16109924
Again, he is very much saying he supports "removing kebab"

>>16109699
People don't seem to be aware that Dawkins has been consistently saying this for the better part of two decades, at least. Nothing has changed. This is no "development". He hasn't renounced anything. He "now" considers himself the same thing he did in 2007, at the earliest. His opinion can almost post on 4chan without getting a ban. That's how old it is. It's probably older than some of the people ITT bitching about it. You pathetic animals really go through life just having immediate emotional responses to whatever headline comes into your field of view? Explains a lot about the state of this board and the world.

>>16110286
Dawkins is consistently anti-Islam and if you think outspoken atheists have been making public policy anywhere in this world you are deluding yourself for the purposes of maintaining a persecution narrative

>>16109782
>That's weird considering the Jewish religious texts are older than Christianity
What is the oldest surviving copy of the old testament?
How old is it? What language is it written in?

>>16110208
>and is basically just secular humanism
The set of values and morals that "secular humanism" ended up with was not guaranteed. Why do you think "secular humanism" ended up being Christian morality minus the spiritual aspect?

>>16109699
>Dawkins realizes sheeple become degenerates and lose all purpose without a sky daddy telling them how to act like civilized humans
Yeah I feel the same way. Welcome to the club cultural Christian

>>16110330
Its not that people just become that way on their own without religion, religion is what prevents people from falling pretty to those who shill degeneracy. On that topic, Darwin is mentioned by name in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a useful tool to use in separating the goyims from their traditional beliefs, he is the only scientist mentioned by name in The Protocols

>>16110353
>the information that has the most evidence and makes the most sense has the most power to dispel traditional superstition and ritual
How surprising thanks for that invaluable factlet.

>>16109963
That fat fuck hasn't lived a day as a fucking cripple tho.

>>16110328
Because they both did the same thing and were just the result of soulless power grabs by politicians that integrated all status quo morality and ditched the inherent ideology of the movement over time.

>>16109763
>Atheism is a VOID, intellectually and morally
why are only like 1% of prisoners atheist if they have no morals and we apparently live in a society completely invented by christians with christian rules?

>>16109699
This does not mean what you seem to think it means. The opposite of a cultural christian is a "believing christian". Dawkins has called himself this for like 20 years

>>16110398
Same reason only 1% of prisoners don't join some ethnic gang, its more dangerous to go alone.

>>16110330
I think it's kind of like some people are so dumb and self-centered they have to be threatened with being tortured for eternity before they consider being a decent person

>>16110405
I'm not sure what that really means. Their Christian morals, which are apparently superior to everyone elses morals, should have conditioned them to not break the law in the first place or associate with people that do so

>>16110409
It means most religious people in prisons are only prison religious just like they are only prison gay.

>>16110409

>>16110409
Christian morals also preaching forgiveness, so the idea of trespass is not seen as impossible. Compunction is not required, only contrition

>>16110384
>that integrated all status quo morality
So how come non-christian cultures don't have the Christian "status quo" morality?

>>16109699
This is not new information. He said this in 2008, and you already made this thread on /lit/
https://archived.moe/lit/thread/23240724/#23243250

>>16110409
>Christian morals...should have conditioned them to not break the law in the first place
Read the primary source (well, secondary source really) before jumping to conclusions or putting words in people's mouths
Jesus said to obey the law of the land you're in even if it's unfair and you disagree with it. Any authority is given by God.
>“Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

>>16110426
>Compunction is not required, only contrition
Wut? Maybe I misunderstand you, but Penance is an important part of asking for forgiveness. It's not just a "lol srry won't do it again *wink*" and you get a free pass

>>16110736
Hey I just realized I incorrectly read or purposely ignored the word "not" in that first post I quoted
Sorry I'm sleep derpived and unironically have a mental handicap

>>16110192
>most Christians don't actually believe in the bible as a literal fact
which part(s) of the Bible do you suppose are meant to be taken as literal fact to qualify as not a Cultural Christian?
It's more of a collection of books than it is one monolothic book

>>16110330
>>16110408
>sheeple become degenerates and lose all purpose without a sky daddy telling them how to act
>some people are so dumb and self-centered they have to be threatened with being tortured for eternity
That's a really uncompassionate view that supposes you're in a morally superior position from intellect & introspection alone.
In my opinion, a superior person would be trying to help and understand others somehow; not dunk on them to feel smug about oneself.

In some sense, those people may actually receive preferential treatment in the afterlife or come judgement time, because some of them are the ones who most need of some growth in their life. (Jesus hung out with sinners the most, not righteous people. Because that's where his work was needed the most)
People like us who have more of a capacity for critical thinking might be judged more harshly than the "poor degenerate sheeple"

--
As far as people "needing" religion to stay in line:
Just like there's a distribution for IQ,
There's a distribution for the motivations that drive people

I forget which philosopher or theologian introduced this concept but his stages of moral development were something like:
>1. Avoid punishment
>2. Receive reward
>3. (help others? or some more abstract and less physical motivation? I forget)
>4. ???
>5. "I do the right thing because of my own internal system

I'm religious but I don't see it as people "needing to invent religion to stay in line" (again, you're assuming superiority).
It's more that Religions provide the "stickiest" system of moral framework because it applies across broad demographics & social standings while having the Ace in the Hole card of
>uhhh it's explained by spirituality, or god, we can't understand it but this is the truth
which can be used against rational arguments
Any other system that's been tried is simply not sticky enough & lacks the appeal and deferring to authority; secular systems can probably be dismantled with logic alone

WOOOPS DID I JUST DESTABLIZE MY WESTERN SOCIETY FOR REDDIT UPVOTES HAHAHAHAH NOW ITS NIGGER PAKI HELL HAHAHAHAHAH

>>16110839
retard

>>16109699
He probably found out about Drag Queen Story Time for Preschoolers and was like “yeah this is kinda whack”

>>16110408
You don't have to be a decent person to avoid going to hell. But of course you should be. Those who think being a good person is required have a wrong idea of what Bible teaches.

>>16109699
Too late. Prepare your cultural anus for enrichment Atheist boy.

Many intellectuals, such as Freud, always find a reason for religion and religious morals

Wonder why that is

>>16109760
Damn dude well when you put it that way...

>>16109778
WTF Richard Dawkins lurks here? Based

>>16110320
Bruh the hint is in the name

What do you expect? Darwin believers are all low IQ & Dawkins is one of them

>>16110286
Of those people in that picture, only Dawkins is man enough to admit he erred.

>>16111125
Once again, Dawkins has been entirely consistent on this for at least 17 years

>>16111130
I'm not talking about Dawkins criticizing Islam, which he has always done, but rather Dawkins conceding that Christianity has a positive cultural effect on our society. The others in that picture do not concede this.

>>16111133
>but rather Dawkins conceding that Christianity has a positive cultural effect on our society.
Which he has done as far back as seventeen years ago

>>16109699
Retarded circumcised man who's been photographed with Rothschilds et al finally gets to be like 70 and grows the fuck up, despite all the damage he did believing it was necessary to force the world forward and rebuild it in a new image/ He got old enough to realize he was used. He's a parasite so he's reorganizing himself. That's about it.

>>16110938
Didn't answer my questions.

>>16109801
>voting
What does it feel like being cattle?

>>16111089
>the first gulp...
Therefore, Satan, foreskin contracts, God wanting to be worshiped (as any narcissist also does), Paul, Moses, et. al. knowing the mind/desires of God, etc.

>>16112007
Basically, yeah.

Fucking talking snake+girl=Apocalypse, hiss! SHE IS SUPPOSED TO BE MINE!

>>16109699
I wonder what made him come to this realization.

>>16111832
I don't know, that part about voting Republican was sarcasm if you didn't get it

>>16112058
The realisation of his own beliefs? I dunno, maybe he read his own books where he stated the same

What do you call a religious person who doesn’t actually believe any of it, and who just goes along with the narrative?

Religion isn’t -supposed- to be real. It’s a story you mold your life by.

A very old Jewish joke was about this. Two rabbis argued over the course of a night, and come morning both had come to the conclusion that God does not in-fact exist. The next day they were seen going to the Synagogue, even still. “What does God’s existence have to do with it?”

>>16112090
A sane normal person. Atheists and theists are both the same sort of stupid, lmfao. A god is only considered a god if you consider it such. To a physicist it’s some higher dimensional “godlike” alien. To the Christian physicist, it’s both. They don’t cancel each other out. It’s the same with magic and science.

Recognizing the sheer psychological power art/stories (yes, religion) have isn’t not a significant attribute to have. I learned this watching Conan the Barbarian (“come to me my child”). Sorcerers and such are charlatans with frightening presence—like the doctor who falsely diagnoses a patient with cancer. Ignorance is disgustingly powerful.

>>16112090
>>16112104
shut up

>>16112068
>sarcasm
>in text

>>16109713
>most people who were into the nu atheist movement in the 2000s
That era was hilarious. Atheism was huge in the 00s and early 10s. r/Atheism was one of the biggest subreddits and atheistic attitudes permeated culture and society. It was seen as an edgy counter-culture, and like all counter-cultures that become the prevailing mainstay culture, they have nothing left to stand on and die out.

Eventually there was a reversal and it was atheism that became target of mockery. Reddit and atheism became associated with the fedora. It was the atheism fedora meme that helped shut down the atheism movement in the early 10s. Anytime you encountered a pompous atheist you just hit them with le reddit fedora tip and laugh. It was great fun posting fedora memes and mocking atheists. You could see the movement die in real time. The leaked video of TheAmazingAtheist naked with a banana and hot coffee didn't help atheism either. Eventually it fizzled out and people stopped giving a shit about whatever edgy anti-religious views someone might spout.

>>16112359
>Eventually it fizzled out and people stopped giving a shit about whatever edgy anti-religious views someone might spout.
Too late, the damage was done, the Christian world is being overrun by muslims and no Christians are willing to do anything to stop it. Europe and America will be wiped out, all thanks to atheism and to the hebrews who were so diligent in promoting it. Reddit is a jewish owned website. Until very recently, the Newhouse brothers were the sole proprietors.

>>16110566
They do, though, hindus, shintos, janists, plenty of other even modern schlock like scientologists all offer other people similar common courtesies and moral reciprocity while having similar rules in their code of ethics to the vast majority of the ten commandments and the golden rule.

>>16109699
Why am I seeing this exact thread everywhere. Do theists see him as some atheist pope?

>>16112104
>Atheists are stupid!
>Normal people simply don't believe in the supernatural
What kind of idiosyncratic definition of atheist are you using here?

>>16112359
The fedora meme is as outdated as the perception of atheism as the edgy counter-culture. The "edgy counter-culture" today is tradcuckery and if anyone still wears fedoras thinking it makes them look like the supreme gentlemen it's probably them innit. Horsehoe theory of headwear.

>>16113349
Conservative pundits who hadn't been paying attention think that Dawkins reiterating the views he's publically espoused for the better part of two decades constitutes an amazing development, especially since they can spin it as an admission of being wrong, and /pol/tards are just lemmings who repost headlines everywhere as soon as they see them

>>16113421
Atheists are stupid because they’d think sufficiently advanced higher dimensional aliens somehow aren’t godlike.

Gods exist the same way giants exist. If it’s bigger than you, it’s a giant. A blue whale is a giant. A higher dimensional alien capable of poking at your neurons to make you see things is certainly a god in comparison to yourself.

Gods and magic and religion are literally just points of view, lmao.

>>16109713
The few smart ones realized that they were right about Christianity when they were cringey atheists, but wrong about theism.
The ones who turned to Christianity as an antidote for woke insanity are almost as retarded as the wokies, not realizing that Jesus's teaching are the original source of wokism and Christianity has done nothing but enable it. People forget that Samaritans were a hostile foreign ethnic group, and Jesus's message in that parable is that you should be more accepting of hostile foreign ethnic groups because some of the individuals are fine people. Really great antidote to wokism they got there.

>>16113646
This is, firstly, a pure semantics argument that, secondly, hinges upon there existing a higher dimensional alien capable of poking at your neurons. By the same token, belief in extra-dimensional aliens is theism, which you also considered "the same sort of stupid".

But well you based this on a fantasy movie so maybe I'm already putting more thought into it than you ever have.

>>16113688
Religion is pure semantics.

“Your god is a demon, mine is a true God”

“It’s not magic, it’s a miracle!”

So yes, what is a god is not going to be a god to another. It merely requires worship. To the physicist, a god is just an alien. To the pagan, it’s more honorific than that.

They don’t cancel each other out!

Belief in aliens, or the search for alien life, does parallel religion, however, since mankind has been deeply invested in the idea of some form of approving intelligence observing them afar since time immemorial.

Humans don’t like the idea that they’re alone in the universe. It is very much the same with the search for alien life.

Watch Ad Astra.

>you based this on a fantasy movie
Thulsa Doom was based on Jim Jones. Drink the koolaid. You don’t need mind control powers to mind control people. Religion is art that dominates the mind. Stories are art.

Why does this bother you?

>>16113646
>>16113688
>>16113968

>>16109699
This isn't even a new thing. He said this at least a decade ago but I think there are earlier instances.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/richard-dawkins-i-guess-im-a-cultural-christian.html

>>16113688
Mathematically we know higher dimensions exist, so we can tempt ourselves with the possibility of such life existing therein. Such beings would be looking at us from the inside out, the same way we’d see the insides of flat two-dimensional lifeforms.

>>16113994
>Such beings would be looking at us from the inside out, the same way we’d see the insides of flat two-dimensional lifeforms.
That’s so disturbing I hope it isn’t true

>>16113999
It probably is in some way.

>>16113688
Some here have taken the question in metaphysical directions, which is lovely and poetic and imaginative.

But I propose another way of answering the question strictly from a scientific point of view and that would be to posit that what we currently distinguish as celestial bodies amid the yawning chasm of space may be quite another thing entirely.

From our viewpoint we see giant masses of gas, planets, comets, black holes, neabulae. And we have observed and mapped a dynamic image of a seething, glowing continuum. But what if that is only how it appears in this dimension, a dimension, I hasten to remind readers, which is an aberration in space/time, (at least it is considered so in String Theory), where the norm is eight to eleven other dimensions is which space and time are collapsed and contiguous, rather than spooled out before and behind us along a chronological path and where the physical world operates within that path and according to those laws.

But what does the universe look like in those other dimensions and how is it organized? Which dimension is actually the “real" one or, if you will, the operating one? With the monumental distances involved, and using the time and physical space that we experience in the third and forth dimensions as our primary perceptive locus, who is to say that ours is the relevant vantage point?

What we can perceive from our dimension, may in fact be a distraction, an aberation or be simply too limited, thus ill equipping us to see what may in truth be a sentient organism of a scale we simply cannot imagine — anymore perhaps than this organism could perceive us regarding it, or, rather regarding what would appear to it to merely be it's minutia.

Consider what we look like on the subatomic level, the Planck level and beyond. Could any sentient organism of that size view us as a discrete entity or would they only see our atoms and electrons and marvel at the speed, variety and distance between them?

>>16114067
Dimensions are mental environment.

Technically the universe has dimensions.

>>16114067
If you could produce a field of squares for the front of mind, you'd have that dimension in your mind space. You can use the squares to focus and leap backwards with your mind.

>>16114068
Thinking in higher dimensions is possible, I just question how higher dimensions would *exist* in actuality, or better yet *which* dimensions are most hospitable, or possible, for life to evolve in. Some mathematicians have argued that life *could not* evolve in, say, just two dimensions alone, and that three dimensions is in-fact the perfect dimensional medium for life to happen at all. Are there dimensional “skips” for the capability to produce life?

>>16114081
Static

>at first i was like *picrel*
>but now i'm more like HELP CHRISTIANS PLZ SAVE ME!!!!

>>16109741
this

Atheism is pure cope.

Midwits wishing that death is the end and that everything will just workout in the end because of like death being permanent non-existence...

They actually fear eternal life, which is why they are atheists.

>>16114771
>permanent non-existence
proof? I existed at least once so it seems I'm possible. what says I'm not possible anymore?

>>16113968
>They don’t cancel each other out!
This is just relativism. And it is atheism, regardless of your attempts to position yourself as above it all. If you declare that any being that a religious person might call "god" must have a physical, material explanation that would be understandable to a physicist, you are an atheist. And the lack of material evidence for such a being just pushes this conversation entirely into the realm of the hypothetical.

>Religion is art that dominates the mind. Stories are art.
Okay but can you reference something other than Hollywood?

>>16115319
>This is just relativism
Yes. It’s all relative. The magic of the past is the science of the future. The magic doesn’t go away, it becomes something else. The word for pharmacy once meant sorcery. The stars still exist despite them once being considered gods. Religion, magic, mysticism, etc, are all just ways of looking at the world—like science. *

(* Except in science’s case, empiricism is at least assumed, while religion practically requires the ignorant imagination as a rule (as truth defeats the purpose of faith). The ancients looking to the night sky and considering the stars gods is indistinguishable from magic / a black box)

>If you declare that any being that a religious person might call "god" must have a physical, material explanation that would be understandable to a physicist, you are an atheist.
I don’t consider myself a theist or an atheist. Anything that exists will have hypothetical information to it. Even God will have internal logic to Him. There is always a background to the foreground. Always. It doesn’t matter if we ever reach it or not. We probably won’t.

But let me ask you this: Does God view Himself as a god? Are His miracles truly miraculous, to Him? Is a human a god to ants? Is a human dropping a single jellybean on an anthill a miracle?

Again, all you need is worship. What is a god to one is not going to be a god to another—it’s the same with magic (and now science, frustratingly enough).

To the Christian physicist, God is both a higher alien being, as well as God / a Name, and would also recognize that not all of his scientific peers would necessarily worship, or even approach it as a god, however godlike. But they can certainly revere it, which is close enough.

Believing, or just entertaining the idea that the universe is a living super-organism, even scientifically, is itself indistinguishable from believing in God. Pantheism. Panentheism. Etc. The search for alien life is religious.

>>16115671
>I don’t consider myself a theist or an atheist.
Well, that's all relative and a matter of semantics :^)

>>16114740
soiyence atheists are ignorant cringoids. the scientific method was devised exclusively by Christians and exclusively for Christians.
non-Christians cannot do real science, they can only do soiyence

Why did he insist on targeting christians and not muslims or jews?

>>16114081
>Some mathematicians have argued that life *could not* evolve in, say, just two dimensions alone
Good thing a Physicist or Molecular Biologist didnt come to this conclusion, phew...that would be bad.

>>16116549
Show me God in the scientific method
Letters were designed by pagans for pagans and oh look you and I both have no problem using them to communicate

>>16116715
Because he's not a cultural Muslim or Jew

>>16116751
The scientific method was developed by Christians to function within the framework of the Christian belief system. As a result, non-Christian cannot effectively make use of the scientific method. You're obviously completely ignorant of the Francis Bacon's writing on this topic and on the origins of the scientific method, but regardless your ignorance of the basics, you're still trying to act like some sort of knowledgeable authority on the topic, which is an example of type of unhindered blatant dishonesty that prevents non-Christians from being able to make effective use of the scientific method.

>>16116808
>The scientific method was developed by Christians to function within the framework of the Christian belief system. As a result, non-Christian cannot effectively make use of the scientific method.
Yeah, you've already said this but you've yet to provide any evidence of this patently ridiculous claim. In fact you then proceed to blatantly beg the question so where is that Christian honesty that is supposed to uniquely render you capable of science?

>>16109741
>or conceding that religious tradition can have merit
This weasel can't even say DOES have merit.
This is why atheism fails. It's anti-religion that refuses to admit its own position is inferior. Nobody with that much denial can make conclusions about God.

>>16117952
Notice that the worst he said about your position is that it CAN have merit instead of that it definitely does and in response you've said that he's a weasel who's in denial over his inferior opinion. Is that the merit of religion? Extreme entitlement and an unwarranted sense of superiority?

>>16117952
>god isn't real because i want to masturbate and not feel guilty about it.
that is how atheism was born. imagine young dawkins jacking off to drawings of genitals in his high school biology textbook and deciding right then and there that he want to be an atheist biologist

>>16109699
Dude is just tired of atheists simping for identity politics, marxism, or Islam.

>>16118530
I've been an atheist for literal decades without masturbating. Way to tell us that you fantasise about little boys though.

>>16118530
>high school biology textbook
>not the Sears catalog underwear section
Youre....youre a kid.

>>16109699
>Culturally Christian
All this means is he loves jews and doesn't like islam. That's it.

Christians are the saddest group of people. The abrahamics in general are pathetic.
Your religion is false and no amount of crying or making memes or seething at atheists will make your religion true.
You were not created by a God and you do not have a soul. You evolved from a primate ancestor. You are a monkey with no soul and it doesn't matter that you don't like this. There is no theistic God separate from the universe pulling the strings. Pull your head out of your ass already and get back to reality.

>>16109699
I hate that christfags put their branding on European culture.
Christian culture is toned down Judaism for white slaves.
The west is culturally Roman, and practically has been for the past thousand years.

>>16113349
christfags are braindead and can only think in terms of 'faith' because they have no understanding. That's why they're the worst allies even if they're on your side.

>>16118501
>Notice that the worst he said about your position is that it CAN have merit instead of that it definitely does
Notice your sophistry here where you imply I said "definitely does" when in reality I merely said "does"?
You had to do that otherwise what you are saying is a useless repetition of what I clearly said that adds nothing to the conversation. Lets see how it sounds without your sophistry
>Notice that the worst he said about your position is that it CAN have merit instead of that it does and in response you've said that he's a weasel who's in denial over his inferior opinion
Of course I notice this. It was the entire basis for my argument.
Saying "notice you said exactly what you said" is quite a pointless thing to type huh?
>Is that the merit of religion? Extreme entitlement and an unwarranted sense of superiority?
Your projection is incredible.
I merely spoke of superiority/inferiority, I have no idea where "entitlement" fits into this anywhere. Total random projection.

Dawkins has said religion does have benefits . Many atheists in this thread are pointing out hes said that for nearly the past 2 decades.
Desperately relegating it to saying it "can" have benefit is like saying automobiles "can" use fossil fuels. It's pure sophistry from a manipulative individual in denial who's too stubborn to concede or admit something they hate saying.

Automobiles do use fossil fuels. Do all of them? no
Religion does have benefits. Do all of them? no

Trying to rephrase either of those to imply it's not the norm is a weasel tactic, thus I called him a weasel as he deserved.

>>16118530
>>god isn't real because i want to masturbate and not feel guilty about it.
lol I'm not sure that is a reasonable take from what I said.
Plus most religions don't think there's anything wrong with jerking it

>>16119508
>Christians are the saddest group of people
>>16119066
>christfags
>>16119516
>christfags
take your seethe back to /pol/ and stay in your containment zone you low IQ tourist

>>16118925
No, that would be culturally puritan or some other philojudaic group, if he's culturally christian he'd probably want all jews bullwhipped and expelled from the country
synagogue of satan etc etc

>>16113968
>To the physicist, a god is just an alien
you have never studied physics

>>16109969
You can agree with christian values, follow christian culture, without actually being christian or believing in god. I celebrate christian holidays, I follow the majority of christian values, I've even gone to church with family on occasion, all despite thinking all the shit with jesus is retarded and one of the least logical religious bases out of the major world religions.

>>16109969
Christianity was innovative for it's moral lessons that...
1. What is in the heart and what one does are more important than simple literal compliance with a strict moral rule
2. Unconditional forgiveness, loving thy neighbor as one loves oneself, and loving your enemy.

I think christianity basically invented these ideas, and they have gained world wide understanding. Lots of people find these ideas intuitive now, whereas before christ, these would have been pretty alien.

Furthermore, you don't have to be christian to understand them. You don't have to believe in God, miracles, or that Jesus was the son of God. This is basically what it means to be a secular christian. You believe in the moral teachings of christianity without the historical or theological beliefs. I believe Dawkin's is in this category.

>>16120345
Personally the more I read about the falsification of that period of history, such as the complete obfuscation of st paul by splitting him into three different individuals across 6 centuries or that islam is a shitty knock off of christianity that was anti christian and cooked up by a bunch of warlord dynasties to legitimise their power the more I wonder what actually happened and who jesus really was?

>>16119687
? Do you think religion is an inherently political topic? Then maybe you shouldn't just be cherrypicking posts from this thread that triggered you and just report the whole thread.

>>16119668
>Notice your sophistry here where you imply I said "definitely does" when in reality I merely said "does"?
M8 you got your panties in a bunch over the distinction between "can" and "does" but now you want to split hairs over how "does" actually doesn't mean "does" in a definite sense? Who's the sophist here?
>Of course I notice this. It was the entire basis for my argument.
Okay, just so we can establish that you're an unrepentant disingenuous hack.
>I merely spoke of superiority/inferiority, I have no idea where "entitlement" fits into this anywhere. Total random projection.
You feel entitled to recognition and acknowledgement for your imagined superiority, you can't stand someone leaving open even the possibility that you are not wholly correct when you are 100% unwilling to concede even the slightest. To you it's not a debate between viewpoints but an opportunity to bask in praise, and you feel slighted that you've missed one.
>It's pure sophistry from a manipulative individual in denial who's too stubborn to concede or admit something they hate saying.
No, you're just an oversensitive whiny prick looking for the tiniest reason to be offended. Histrionic narcissist. Whatever merit religion may hypothetically have is obviously absent in you.

>>16119668
>>16120678
Anyway if we want to really use a proper car analogy then it's rather more like saying a car "can" use electricity. Do all of them? No. But it is still a refutation of the hardline claim that all cars produce vehicle emissions (and are therefore implied to be inherently bad). The lengths you went to to still find fault with this person who ostensibly agreed with you and condemn him in the harshest terms for failing to praise religion clearly enough, to the point where you practically invert his claim with your obtuse and flawed analogy, now THAT is pure sophistry, which is honestly no surprise coming from the person who waltzes into a thread and starts yelling "sophistry" at everything.

So just for you I'll further clarify my own position and concede that, hypothetically speaking, there might perhaps be some slight non-zero chance that religion, against all odds, may potentially possess just the tiniest little bit of merit. Maybe. That's as far as I'll go.

>>16109713
I’m still an r/atheism atheist. Treating arbitrary beliefs as more important than other arbitrary beliefs just because someone wrote them in a story book hundreds of years ago is braindead.

>>16120530
Have you read Gunnar Heinsohn?

>>16110016
>pray to jesus all your life because muh pascal’s wager
>whoops turns out the real god is actually some jungle tribe deity you’ve never heard of
>everyone who worshipped false gods is sent immediately to jungle tribe hell
>he’s chill with atheists though

>>16118530
It’s super cucked to feel guilty about masturbating it’s literally your own body and you’re still going to deny yourself sexual pleasure just because you think it would make a guy more powerful than you mad you may as well wear a cock cage.

The whole masturbation thing seems to be derived from god being angry at some guy for not fucking the widow of his dead brother.

I think his name was Onan.
shit's whack

>>16120678
>M8 you got your panties in a bunch over the distinction between "can" and "does" but now you want to split hairs over how "does" actually doesn't mean "does" in a definite sense?
Are you kidding? The word you added was "definitely"
I explained why it was sophistry using the car example.
>Who's the sophist here?
You remain the sophist. That is why you can only ask mindless rhetorical questions instead of prove your case.
>Okay, just so we can establish that you're an unrepentant disingenuous hack.
No argument, just ad homs
>You feel entitled to recognition and blah blah blah
No argument. Total projection
>you can't stand someone leaving open even blah blah blah
No argument. Total projection
>To you it's not a debate between viewpoints but an opportunity to bask in blah blah blah
No argument. Total projection
>No, you're just an oversensitive whiny prick blah blah blah
lol. You know the drill

I blatantly proved you are using sophistry and explained why and your only retort was a pathetic "psychoanalysis" of why I did that. My statement of the other anon stands and the fact you are a sophist remains true.

Don't even bother replying

So it beings...
They want to normalise destabilised countries which they ruined themselves with shitskins and gay philosophy which everyone knew is retarded. They want to prime young people for Ww3 so they will go and die for jude.

Its too late now, science serves as propaganda tool, medicine wants to keep you neither healthy or sick but in a state where you are perpetual customer. Movies are full of racemixing and wokeness. Elections are fraudulent, judges are biased, laws are more restricting.

The collapse of leftists and Jews is close

>>16120692
>Anyway if we want to really use a proper car analogy
lol is your childish rant now over?
"really use" is a sign of desperate qualifying. My analogy stands.
>then it's rather more like saying a car "can" use electricity
Wrong.
Almost all religions (well over 99%) have some benefit. Many are counteracted by their own detriments, of course, but that doesn't change the fact the benefits exist.
Hence, saying "cars can use fossil fuels" was the proper analogy to saying "religion can have benefits" and trying to rephrase that to imply it's not the norm is a weasel tactic from someone in denial like I originally said
>Do all of them? No.
I literally said that and used it to prove my analogy is the proper analogy. You are going in circles with your own confusion.
>But it is still a refutation of the hardline claim that all cars produce vehicle emissions
What?? Who was talking about emissions? You are so confused.
>and are therefore implied to be inherently bad).
The car analogy had nothing to with being good or bad.
It could have been about headlights.
You are so so desperately trying to read into it to find things that aren't there to help your case. Pathetic.
>The lengths you went to to still find fault with this person blah blah blah
Didn't read the rest since you went back to childish rant mode
My analogy stands as the proper analogy, my conclusions regarding the other anon stand, and the fact you are a sophist remains.

>hypothetically speaking, there might perhaps be some slight non-zero chance that religion, against all odds, may potentially possess just the tiniest little bit of merit. Maybe
Pure denial

>>16109699
Based. Long history of fake it till you make it in scientific morality.