/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14693421
Final? Nope, human brain will first be genetically enhanced then gradually replaced by nanomachines then supplamented with virutal brain systems until human minds are digital and then the substrate will change from molecular computers to space/time constructs and beyond. This development will take million of years or more but at its end you will have a forever engine of thought, man eternal.

>>14693421
the final stage of evolution is when we acquire dominion over all time and space and exist purely as unbounded immortal energy beings capable of fabricating anything through pure will power.

It was already calculated that the Neutrons of the nervous system faaaaaar exceed the calculating speed of the maximum limit of silicon-based circuitry

It is impossible
I repeat
IMPOSSIBLE for metal to ever beat flesh

It is there to protect the flesh, not replace it

Pure consciousness body is the true final stage. It's immortal and free. Whenever it needs to interact with common matter, it can simply assemble a puppet from it.

You guys ever think about the fact that we are all actually just some energy waves bouncing around inside a meat suit?

>>14693614
>It was already calculated that the Neutrons of the nervous system faaaaaar exceed the calculating speed of the maximum limit of silicon-based circuitry
source?

>>14693421
All your accomplishments are those of the machine within.
>B-B-BUT I CAN RUN AS FAST AS MUH FARAH!
Congratulations, my car is faster than him too. You aren't breaking human limitations, anything you can do humans can do better due to greater creativity.
>I-I WILL BECOME A COOL MERCENARY
And enjoy fighting for Jews and oil as the slave you are.

>>14693626
Even if the energy body has more potential than the meat body, only the consciousness body can achieve the true freedom.

>>14693719
>All your accomplishments are those of the machine within.
Not if he is the designer of his body. That way, he can enter the loop of infinite growth. And all his achievements would be truly his.

>>14693766
Cars exist, you would just be a freak with robot limbs, you wouldn't even be noticed in the room without them. Only a truly boring person can't accept who they are.

>>14693841
>I am the circumstances I find myself in
npc

>>14693421
just because we don't currently undersand the limitations of the human brain doesn't mean they don't exist, or even that we haven't encounteted them already. maybe if one day we can produce brains as easily as we can prduce circuitboards that will change, but if not then every part of our natural bodies is ultimately doomed to obsolence by the machine.

>>14693421
You don't evolve into mechanical parts dumbfuck

>>14693860
if you applied a charge to a group of cells eventually they'd evolve to run off electricity

>>14693880
They already do dumbass, how do you think our brains work? That doesn't make or bodies cyborgs

>>14693673
Frontier Supercomputer: 680 m^2 of 9,408 CPUs and 140 km of cables. Power consumption of 21MW

Human brain: 86B neurons. Power consumption of 20watts

And yet, the human brain performs 30x the power of the biggest supercomputers

Bear in mind that the max size of silicon transistors is 3-5nm. We are currently at 8-20nm and we would soon hit the max limit.
Within 50 years, it's over. Technology would peak and we would need something other than silicon to continue progressing

Otherwise, the only way to improve would be to pack up and continue to increase size. Just like the 1800's

>>14693919
what other materials do you think would work?

>>14693921
Unironically Artificial brain
It is IMPOSSIBLE to surpass the brain.

Best course of action would be to imitate it

>>14693923
how would you imitate it? What would you build the artificial brain out of?

>>14693919
>human brain outperforms super computers
yeah ok dude

>>14693931
Ask the biologist
If we had the technology for it, chances are, we would need an entirely new field. Probably mecha-biology

>>14693934
YES!
The brain does soooooo much more than just your thoughts.
It calculates your entire body - from maintaining organ function to analyzing the environment

>>14693934
It literally does, this is not a controversial statement.

>>14693938
what do you mean mecha-biology? a fusion between biology and metals?

>>14693947
My idea is to use an artificial brain for computing
Then their message would be interpreted and processed by machines

>>14693938
>>14693939
that's like saying a water wheel calculates the complex fluid simulation of a river to convert it into rotational velocity

>>14693967
If you're to much of an idiot that you have to think of the brain as a neural net with weights assigned to the action potential etc., then to explain it, every single molecule in your skull is indeed affecting the so called "weights" of the neurons and how they fire. your entire mind, your intelligence, is the total computation of all the molecules and their dynamics.
If you wanted to you'd have to program the logic gates of a computer to compute the entirety of the molecular dynamics of the brain to perfect precision, all the fluids and molecules in there to simulate a human intelligence.
Intelligence has a molecular, not a computational or logical, basis. There is no actual solution on digital logic gates alone.

>>14693972
>dude my turd is actually the most powerful computer in existence because no super computer can simulate all the shit particles motion as perfectly as it does

>>14693989
If you factor in everything that the brain does with just 20watt, then try to replicate the same processes in a supercomputer, the brain would win

>>14693989
The particles in your shit are not affecting the computation of the brain unlike all the molecules in your brain are.
Stop coping and seething. It is known that all the molecules in the mind affect intelligence and the computation of the brain. Try to keep up with science
You will never program a general intelligence on digital logic gates alone. No matter how hard you try or what clever algorithm you try to employ. Intelligence has a molecular basis.

>>14693992
>>14693996
you aren't getting it
just because your brain has a fuckload of complex inputs, doesn't make it a faster computer than my fucking phone. Your brain isn't simulating every single molecules position inside your brain, why are you saying a super computer is slower because it can't do that? If you said the universe is a better computer than a super computer then sure, but that's such an inane statement
also
>20w
chips that run way less than that can run algorithms 1000x faster than the human brain

>>14693580
Would i be there?

>>14693421
>>14693421
This is fucking horrible and should never happen.

What the trannie-humanists seem to fail to understand is that there is no real, objective point to our human existence.
When you have a technological society that simply serves the purpose of allowing people to eat, fuck, hang out with friends, enjoy the scent of cut grass during a walk in the park on a sunny Sunday or jerk of to videos of Japanese ladies drinking a bowl of cum squirted from their own assholes, we will be fine.

Once we start moving away from our biological parameters, driven by a fantasy of some "higher form of existence", we are pretty much done as a species.

>>14694015
Dude you are so retarded stop. Humans will never create anything more intelligent than them, at best like the other anon said it could create a copy, an imitation of what is already there. Human thought is incapable of creating anything new, it just combines, mix etc. what's already there. Creating anything more intelligent than us is impossible for humans, it could only be achieved by nature, the universe, god etc whatever created us.
You aren't even arguing, you are just a winning bitch who has seen so much sci-fi and trannime bullshit and doesn't want to accept it was all poppycock.
Sad many such cases.
Sneeed

>>14694015
>>14693996
Funny how none of your contradictory opinions are correct at all.

We almost certainly do not need to know the action of every molecule in the brain to recreate it's function. But the raw computational ability of the brain is still absurdly big by todays standard.
It's a 3D structure, and unlike our virtual "neurons" used in deep learning networks, a singular neuron often does have complex computational ability. Plus the neurotransmitters, plus the life cycle of a cell and it's genetic programming matters.

>>14694028
i don't necessarily disagree but what's your reasoning? the civilzation you described as ideal sounds self-destructive in the same way, nihilism doesn't work for everybody. you need only look to the rise of suicide and depression in the modern world to see that.

>>14694054
>We almost certainly do not need to know the action of every molecule in the brain to recreate it's function
but we do need to know that, plus all the stuff you also said is correct and I'm not/never disagreed with it.

>>14694044
>>14694054
calculate the 9th root of 10385767193 in your mind cuck retards, i'll use the computer 20x smaller than my brain that I carry in my pocket to do so in 0.1 seconds

>>14694015
I'm not saying that the brain is simulating every molecule, I said that every molecule affects the action potentials and the evolution of the brain and it's function. If you wanted to simulate a brain you'd have to simulate all the molecules. The brain doesn't need to be cause the molecule is just right there.
The computations done on modern electronics are only better on some floating point operations. They are trash for literally everything else.
Why are you so desperate to deny reality and to pretend that a calculator is somehow comparable to even an insect? Literal insects are more intelligent than supercomputers

>>14694062
That's not intelligence you actual brainlet, that's just using an abacus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6OmqXCsYt8

>>14694063
>>14694068
good luck coming up with a definition of intelligence that is somehow divorced from computation

>>14694057
But your strive for a higher meaning and sense of purpose is also an effect of your desires given to you by evolution.
There is no "beyond".
>>14694062
if you are not trolling honestly kill yourself.
PROTIP: start a 3D video game on your computer and try to
>calculate the 9th root of 10385767193
using the game. Not that easy? So I guess the game doesn't require any complicated computation?

>>14694080
It's not divorced from computation, it is entirely based in computation. And still all the points you've made are beyond retarded.

STANDING HERE I REALIZE

>>14694080
how do you define intelligence?

>>14694044
>Humans will never create anything more intelligent than them
I don't disagree but you need to consider that it won't necessarily be us performing the designing aspect past a certain point. We must create an intelligence capable of improving itself, guided by principles we set for it

>>14693421
One can get access to the work of a machine without rejecting their humanity to be one.

>>14693919
>we would need something other than silicon to continue progressing
it's called graphene son

>>14694223
whats the current state of graphene processors? jw

>>14693967
while true, how much of the brain is used for thinking

>>14693421
Pound per pound a bone skeleton is stronger than your metal gear.

>>14693580
None of this will happen.

>>14693860
>>14693880
>put cells in an iron rich environment where they can barely survive
>cells evolve and adapt to make use of all the metal and start synthesising metallic structural proteins
wala there's your natural cyborg

captcha 2dna2n

>>14694525
Go ahead and watch evolution happen, I'll wait for your documented real-time logs
This is why I don't believe in evolution as a science

>>14693421
Man as unlikely as it is I do hope this happens
How fucking cool would it be to have super human strength
Fuck man why did I go into physics and not robotics

>>14694489
Genetically modified brains already exist and the children whose brain was modified are already 4 years old.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/02/21/137309/the-crispr-twins-had-their-brains-altered/

>>14693421
>I'm definitley not 16 years old.

Fuck off kid.

>>14695415
Sounds like they're just going to find two of the smartest kids and rename them and claim success of Chinese science

>>14695517
They also will have to be immune to HIV.

>>14693421
Okay guys hear me out...what if humans...but enhanced with neural networks. Like, humans with brain augmentation that'll increase their computational capacity tenfold. A DALL-E in your head, if you will.

>>14693421
You can't replace squishy flesh with hardy metal, it's too risky

>>14695701
You may say, it is impossible for a man to become like the Machine. And I would reply, that only the smallest mind strives to comprehend its limits.

Also heart implants, hip replacement, prosthesis and we even linked up neurons with artificial ones.

Chainmail armor was one of the best techs. Sturdy and flexible. Now we need metalic nanofiber suits and infinite telomeres. Then synthetic brains specialized for resource and information management and micromanagement and modular nuclear reactors and space fleets

>>14693919
This isn't my field at all but aren't existing CPUs still essentially two dimensional circuits?

>>14695523

>>14693421
The eyes are not just "technically", and also evolutionarily, part of the brain. I can imagine that in 700 years, eyes will be have an even more important status in human society because they will be the only biological thing visible from the human.

>>14693967
>a water wheel calculates the complex fluid simulation of a river to convert it into rotational velocity
It does though, that's just a very simple calculation and the water wheel is highly optimized for the task.

>>14693421

Humans became cyborgs the moment they picked up a stick.

>>14693919

The future could be mixing analog and digital computers that can rearrange their neuronal nets.

>>14693992
The thing you are struggling to understand is that the brain does not actually perform unconscious "calculation" much. Do you cells calculate how to perfectly balance fluid gradients between them? Do proteins calculate how to assemble into the best origami shape? No. The brain does the same, but with neurons. It happens because the chemical and geometric configurations at the relevant termini is simply the most energetically favorable. There is no computation needed. None whatsoever.
Even things like balancing which can metaphorically be called "calculation" are not actually a calculation, they work on the same principles -- is a board balancing on a stone "calculating its balance"?
Your perception, thoughts and memories are "what see is what you get" in regards to the non-metaphorical calculation the brain is performing.

>>14693919
>Technology would peak and we would need something other than silicon to continue progressing

Anon, that's what transhumanism *is*. You replace the biological parts of the body with machinery, but still have the brain 'operate' it. So, if you would be physically weak before the transition, and then get a cyborg body, you could now all of a sudden make backflips the height of buildings.

>>14698911
And as a followup, if you wonder why supercomputers *do* and need to calculate so much shit, it's because we humans give them things to calculate, lots of it, that has never emerged as important (or possible, via non-actors) things to keep track on and perform math operations. For example, the javascript of this page or the browser engine are tracking the position of your mouse cursor, whether there has been a network message that news posts arrived, etc.
That consumes thousands of calculations. It does nothing for nature, it's meaningless outside a very recent human context.

>>14693580
>>14693594
>We understand how computers and AIs work
>We don't understand how the human brain works
>"Brains are just like... computers... maaaaaan..."
>Can replicate and create AI/computer from scratch
>Can't replicate and create a human brain
I thought this was good enough evidence that we still don't have the full picture

>>14698915
>Anon, that's what transhumanism *is*.
So it's a bunch of science fiction?

>>14698959
I wouldn't call it science fiction, really. If we just keep at it long enough it *will* happen.

I don't really believe consciousness is this magical thing we can't understand or work with. At some point, we'll be actual gods manipulating entire solar systems and the fabric of space and time.

>>14698953
>>We understand how computers and AIs work
Not really. Black Box AI and Quantum Computing.

>>14699021
Do those exist yet?

>>14698959
Genetically enhanced people were already born (minor though), designed organs were transplanted and implants improvig human ability already are in use. At present we see a very early form of transhumanism yet the future isn't waitimg.

>>14699026
...yes? Since 5 years and more. Quantum Computers and Self-learning programs whose learning curve grows too large for human understanging (mostly because the most is gibberish)

>>14699028
There is no "improving" happening in genetics
Never was
All that is going on is *Modification.

Every trait that you want to pass on and improve shall come with equal disadvantages
No such thing as superior species in evolution.
Just something appropriate for a given situation at the given time

We have domesticated animals and plants to have traits that we want. At the cost of losing their ability to survive in the wild.

A transhumanistic world would breed humans the same way. Incapable of living outside of civilization

>>14699055
>There is no "improving" happening in genetics
Facutally wrong. Genetics is no RPG that is balanced across all genomes. It is a mess of adaptations, mutations and selections and vestiges. We got around 59 genes that we identified we could modify for oour benefit. (https://arep.med.harvard.edu/gmc/protect.html)) Wild swines in the forest are terrifying and slaughter boars when they meet them.

>>14699070
Yeah, because swine are bigger than boars and there are no wolves in their area.

They are not in the wild

>>14694020
Yeah but you'll be gay

>>14693626
>You guys ever think about the fact that we are all actually just some energy waves bouncing around inside a meat suit?
Everyday, and everyday I strive to someday achieve >>14693618

>>14695400
>Fuck man why did I go into physics and not robotics
Because everything plays into each other. Every scientific breakthrough aside from brain dead gender theory and such leads to true progress of mankind and the inevitable future of soul and mind in metal.

They already tried.
The monkey all died.

Subjecting a brain to rusty needles that prods and pokes it with electric impulses is one of the most cruel things you can do.
>One primate developed a bloody skin infection and had to be euthanized. Another was discovered missing fingers and toes, “possibly from self-mutilation or some other unspecified trauma,” and had to be put down. A third began uncontrollably vomiting shortly after surgery, and days later “appeared to collapse from exhaustion/fatigue.”

>>14693421
>Cyborgs are the final stage of evolution
wrong

>>14700184
Man, those monkeys didn't need to die
Elon could have just hired actual neurosurgeons and do the experiments using simulations. Overwhelming majority of experiments only needed animal tests for confirmation as simulations are already advanced enough
And you can do hundreds to thousands of experiments in just a few hours of simulation

Elon is an incompetent fuck
He was only good for pissing off the elites and that's it. Every idea of his are absolute failures and scams

>>14700184
>>14700198
It's fucking futile. Always bet against some inane, childish sci-fi brain computer interface, at least this millennium (understand how significant this time period is, I might as well say "this side of a million years" due to the rate of tech progress).

Just leave the brain as is, and set the terminals at the nerves. Walah, now you can manipulate your robot body like a literal puppet master.

>>14693421
Why? Your wishful thinking? Hahhahaha. Never gonna happen, loser.

>>14698959

https://youtu.be/jX71XvnMDys