/lit/ - Literature

it's a slav thing

>>22622463
Filtered

>>22622463
>I read Garnett translation if that matters

>>22622550
It's the best translation

>>22622564
katz is the best but garnett isn't bad

>it's just like my chinese cartoons!

>>22622463
hearing an american's opinion on literally everything is the worst form of intelectual torture one could get

>>22622463
>was it autism?
Yes, OP, you have autism

>>22622463
>speeches where they reveal every single one of their thoughts and motivations, rather than just making a point and allowing the other person to respond
OP has discovered literature, congrats

>NOOO THE DIALOGUE MUST BE NATURAL LIKE MY REAL LIFE, IN WHICH PEOPLE ARE FUN LUSH FLOWING FEELINGS-BLOBS AND EVERYBODY'S HAPPY AND EVERYTHING'S FINE!!! AGGGGHHHH NOVELS SHOULD BE A CELEBRATION OF THE ENDLESS "REAL CANCUN (2003)" THAT IS LIFE!!!! LIFE IS A CORNUCOPIA OF FIZZY SENSATIONS INTERPENETRATING AND OVERFLOWING POROUS DISUBJECTIVITIES FUSING INTO ONE IMPERSONAL SUPERBEING OF ORGONES, WHEN I DRIV EIN THE CAR AND LISTEN TO "THE CHAINSMOKERS" I FEEL COMPLETE!!! LIFE IS A DREAM OF A DAY AT THE MALL WITH MY BESTIES!!! MY BESTIES NEEEEVER TALK THE WAY PEOPLE TALK IN DOSTOEVSKY NOVELS, I DEMAND THE OVERSEERS OF THE ORGYPORGY ADDRESS THIS BY REWRITING THEM TO BETTER REFLECT MY TEXT CONVERSATIONS WITH MY BROTHER ABOUT BUYING A NEW "VAPE", NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT ANOTHER TWO PAGE RANT ABOUT RELIGION, THE ONLY RELIGION I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IS WATCHING TELEVISION AND BEING FUCKED UP THE ASS!!!! THE FEELINGS OF BEING ANALLY RAPED ARE NATURAL EXTENSIONS OF THE SOCIAL AND ROMANTIC TENSION I FELT THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT AT THE "PARTY" WHERE I SELECTED MY FUTURE ASSFUCKER THE WAY ONE USES A DOWSING ROD TO FIND LEYLINES OR A OUIJA BOARD TO CONTACT A SPIRIT!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DOSTOEVSKY NOOOOOOOOOOO DON'T USE A TRISYLLABIC WORD, THE MAN WHO MADE ME SMILE AND EVOKED ANIMALISTIC LUST FACES IN ME AT THE "PARTY" WHILE I CLUTCHED AN INEBRIANT NEVER SAID WORDS LIKE THAT AGGGHHHHHHHHHHH THIS IS OVERWHELMING ME I NEED A "WHITE CLAW"

>>22622463
Maybe that’s just how people were in 19th century Russia. You don’t know, you weren’t there.

>>22623146
You could have just said that it is not designed to be read naturalistically; and I have to wonder if you didn‘t because you‘re either not willing to defend that on concept or in application. I can‘t quite wrap my head around the real spergout pretending to be a fake one and find it pathetic.

I enjoyed Dosto but I thought the same when reading him. Imagine doing this IRL. Imagine going to a prostitute but instead of fucking her you enter into a 10 page fedora monologue. You'd get the cops called on you for being a massive sperg lord. Exposing women to intellectualism is a crime worse than rape.

>>22623193
>Imagine going to a prostitute but instead of fucking her you enter into a 10 page fedora monologue
This happened a lot during Dostoevsky's era. Even the prime-minister of Britain did it on a regular basis.

>>22623182
>I DON'T GET IT HOW COME WHENEVER I COME TO 4CHAN PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THINGS WITH MORE WORDS THAN THEY NEED, AS JUDGED BY ME A RETARD!!!! IT'S NOT FAIR WHY IS EVERYTHING SO WORDY, NOT LIKE REAL LIFE AT ALL!!!! WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST MAKE A NORMAL POST ON 4CHAN LIKE A NORMAL REAL LIFE PERSON TALKING??? I LOVE IT SO MUCH WHEN THINGS ARE NORMAL, LIKE WHEN THE MOM IN THE SOAP COMMERCIAL SAYS A NORMAL SMALL AMOUNT OF WORDS ABOUT SOAP, THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME BECAUSE IT'S NORMAL!!! EVERYBODY WHO ISN'T JUST LIKE ME IS WEIRD NOT NORMAL AND IT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE!!! PLEASE STOP MAKING ME MAD BAD SAD, NOW I HAVE TO REWATCH MY INSPIRATIONAL "TIK-TOKS" AND TED TALKS ABOUT HOW LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT

>>22622463
>The characters speak and behave incredibly autistically
they are living in the 1800s, where things like politeness, custom, and eloquence is more common, and movies did not exist. Hell, your retarded ass would probably think everyone in the 20s was autistic if you could go there.

>>22622463
If you are alluding to Dostoevsky’s worst novels, then, indeed, I dislike intensely The Brothers Karamazov and the ghastly Crime and Punishment rigamarole. No, I do not object to soul-searching and self-revelation, but in those books the soul, and the sins, and the sentimentality, and the journalese, hardly warrant the tedious and muddled search. Dostoyevsky’s lack of taste, his monotonous dealings with persons suffering with pre-Freudian complexes, the way he has of wallowing in the tragic misadventures of human dignity – all this is difficult to admire. I do not like this trick his characters have of ”sinning their way to Jesus” or, as a Russian author, Ivan Bunin, put it more bluntly, ”spilling Jesus all over the place." Crime and Punishment’s plot did not seem as incredibly banal in 1866 when the book was written as it does now when noble prostitutes are apt to be received a little cynically by experienced readers. Dostoyevsky never really got over the influence which the European mystery novel and the sentimental novel made upon him. The sentimental influence implied that kind of conflict he liked—placing virtuous people in pathetic situations and then extracting from these situations the last ounce of pathos. Non-Russian readers do not realize two things: that not all Russians love Dostoevsky as much as Americans do, and that most of those Russians who do, venerate him as a mystic and not as an artist. He was a prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. I admit that some of his scenes, some of his tremendous farcical rows are extraordinarily amusing. But his sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes are not to be endured for one moment—by this reader anyway. Dostoyevsky seems to have been chosen by the destiny of Russian letters to become Russia’s greatest playwright, but he took the wrong turning and wrote novels.

>>22623127
A soliloquy can be fine, but the way Dosto writes them is insufferable. Every character is manic and gets carried away in the most melodramatic ways. It's like a cheap soap opera with poor actors.

>>22623220
Advancing irony and sarcasm on principle instead of speaking directly is very weak-willed and feminine. People should stop speaking like this.

>>22623193
>Imagine going to a prostitute but instead of fucking her you enter into a 10 page fedora monologue.
im thinking about doing it bros, i really feel the need to drop 10 page fedora monologue to somebody, but i don't have anybody close and even i had i would be too ashamed to do that shit to them
realistically, how bad can it end up?

>>22622463
You asked for Dostoslop, you got Dostoslop. Don't come crying here.

>>22623697
>how bad can it end up?
at worst she'll follow you back home and give you sexo for free

>>22623505
Nah op is right and I don't think people in the 1800s went on 10 page long monologues.
If you read Gogol for example the dialogue sounds more natural, conversational.

I've noticed that Poe wrote in a similar way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-BmKFgJJog

He's writing to the specific type of person or audience that would most likely be reading novels at the time. It would be fun for them to imagine a world where people just dump their introspective thoughts on each other stored up from being an introverted wordcel. It's more fun in a world where everyone argues about the type of big ideas you would read from a book or newspaper. That's why the underground man 'talks like a book'.

>>22622522
/thread
but it was actually epilepsy OP not autism

>>22623814
No it's not if you don't have the socials skills. What if you were born a sperg. That must make you king of incels. Sorry. I am that schizo

>>22623193
>Imagine going to a prostitute but instead of fucking her you enter into a 10 page fedora monologue. You'd get the cops called on you for being a massive sperg lord.
Sounds like a (you) problem. Maybe you should stop fucking ghetto prostitutes.

>>22623151
For all we know Russians still feel this way deep down

>>22624175
Doesn't he explore his epilepsy in The Idiot? (through Myskhin). About to read it next.

>>22623193
If you're talking about C&P then shouldn't you take issue with the entire premise rather than just how the protagonist acts in that situation? Because Sonja wasn't just a prostitute, she was a noble, religious woman who sacrificed her body so her siblings could have something to eat. If you can accept this premise, then there is nothing weird at all about Raskolnikov wanting to talk and confide in her, rather than just wanting to fuck her.

>>22622463
I bought multiple of his books when I was just getting into serious reading and still haven’t finished one.

>>22623647
Trolling is one of the manliest pursuits

>>22624638
He's obviously talking about Notes from Underground you minge.

>>22624674
Read C&P bro, it's great

>>22623146
Kek. I hate women.

>>22624817
Im reading it right now on part 2 some parts of it feel very real and I can walk in shoes of Rodia, but I read Les Mis this year and it does nkt compare to it will it get better?

>>22622463
>I've read a translation btw, hope that helps contextualize my rant!
: |

>>22623193
>Imagine going to a prostitute but instead of fucking her you enter into a 10 page fedora monologue
This is exactly what I did more than once, except it was in between fucking the girl, not instead of.

t. Russian

>>22623589
Vladimir, calm down, you are a great Russian writer, but Dostoevsky is still greater. You have the most beautiful prose in all Russian literature, if that is any consolation.

>>22625209
Yeah it picks up. I know whereabouts you are. Stick with it anon.

>>22625249
damn I wanna be russian so bad...

>>22625266
Be what you are. A xeno-patriot, a man who loves another culture and another country more than his own is no better than a tranny.

>>22623775
what else should i read if poe and dosto are my favs

>>22625281
>brings trannies up out of nowhere
damn.....

>>22622463
I think in the era people did discuss ideas more then now. But perhaps not to the extent in brothers k. Obviously nobody has memeorizes grand inquisitor to just recite at the pub.

But at the same time, kys who cares fucking loser. Did you want them to talk about the weather for 700 pages ?

No

>>22625264
Yep thats the plan, Im looking for group to read litrature with irl, Im on 7th chapter Garret translation, Thanks for advice man.

>>22625363
Is anyone else not able to find reading groups that aren't about new agey books? Nobody wants to make one about classic/historical lit

>>22625254
Dosto is essentially sadomasochistic, he loves dwelling on characters who revel in how depraved they are, but who also prostrate themselves in the just punishment or humiliation of their depravity. Again, sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes imply the exact situation he adored, all the violence and sexual intrigue he desired so much, but with the approval of his super ego since they ritualistically degrade themselves in a kind of spiritual fetishistic pleasure in confessing, being punished, and then being "redeemed". It's lurid and partakes of a sick kind of gratification in self flagellation.

>>22625209
It begins to move very quickly after a certain point.

For me the greatest parts of the book are
>Rodia and Sonya reading the resurrection of lazarus
>Marmelodovs Wake
and every scene involving Rodia and Dunya

>>22627422
>Rodya and Dunya
Why does dostoy love brother-sister incest so much? Seriously, this is in his other books as well.

>>22625631
I asked my friend who was in art college and in his college which is one of best college of state is does not have anyone who is interested in lit. Ill just have to go to library and see if I find someone there.

>>22627503
Wtf anon? Trolling or just projecting your own fantasies onto Raskolnikov?

>>22622463
>Oh Sonya! Such depths of depravity and to be reduced to such dirty filthiness as you have for your family makes my heart break! The depravity ohhh uhhh ! ahhhh let me sniff and wash your feet Sonya just as Christ did. Ohh ahhh The little ones Sonya. The little ones!

>>22628488
Why was Dosto such a crusty pervert exactly?

>>22622463
Too little autism and you’re a normie
Too much autism and you’re a retard
Just the right amount of autism and you can change the world

>>22628488
That never happens

>>22628455
>from Humiliated and Insulted protagonist Vanya is in love with his adopted sister Natasha
>from The Idiot protagonist Myshkin is in love with the sexually groomed Nastasya
>In Netochka Nezvanova adopted orphan girl falls in love with her sister
>In Demons Stepan is in an intimate relationship with his patroness for 20 years
>in crime and punishment rodya has an unnatural fixation on and love for his sister
>in the Adolescent Anna, half sister to the protagonist, is probably in love with the protagonist, knowing dostoy

>>22629335
Maybe Dosto and Nabby weren't so different after all...

>>22622463
Do you think autism can generate such psychological and emotional insight on human behavior and motivation?mprt0d

>>22622463
As soon as I read "it felt like anime" tier posts, I know OP is a total dumbass.

>>22628491
The sadomasochistic element of Christianity fed into his kinks causing him to engage in a cycle of lurid degeneracy followed by the equally pleasurable punishment and lamenting in a just punishment because he had been just such a bad boy. It's positively cliche at this point.

>>22622463
Give it leeway for artistic license.

Can you imagine being an author trying to work the whole personal philosophy of Primus into a conversation, and having Secundus respond with perfect questions like a catechism?

That's only slightly less artificial; Wilde tried it and it was still fake and clunky.

Just treat it as a morality play, anon. In other words, accept it as anime. Expecting hardboiled Spillane realism j/bc the setting is grungy is kinda autistic tho. Go soft on the brakes anon