/lit/ - Literature

ngl I’d like to know this too,
Hard mode: it can’t be about seething over whites

>>18656494
>>18656515
I think the only African author that has unanimously been praised on here whenever he's been mentioned is Wole So yinka, check him out

>>18656494
Assuming you mean literature produced by black people - Epic of Sundiata

>>18656536
Fair enough, I’ll put him in my list

>>18656494
The Doggo tribe legit has space alien /lit/
Astrology big brains
Zodiac stuff

probably lots of good oral stuff that hasn't been written down/translated yet

>>18656536
>basedinka
i ain't reading plays

>>18656538
This but African mythology is bit bit of an obvious choice. West African mythology is kino and underrated though.
>>18656547
Good on ya.
>>18656564
>i ain't reading plays
Beyond cringe.

>>18656580
plays are meant to be performed, not read like a novel

>>18656558
We taught them how to read and write centuries ago, what's taking them so long?

>>18656494
>I guess... it is because We Africans, respect knowledge and intellectual pursuits.

Yeah, sure that's why.

I was wondering the same thing a few weeks ago so I looked up some suggestions for African lit and chose this because it seemed like it could be cool and funny.
I'm only about 1/5th into it and its pretty good so far. Its basically the metamorphosis but instead of a cockroach its a black dude waking up as a white man on the day of his job interview. It takes place in Lagos and I've been especially enjoying the descriptions of that environment. The prose is simple but descriptive. The story hasn't gone super far yet and I'm worried that its not going to go anywhere super interesting but so far I've been enjoying it and I cant say its a bad book.

>>18656596
When you have oral culture, you think time is a flat circle

https://firstness.org/issues/1#the-birth-of-faustianism
"In societies using the oral medium exclusively as means of communication, we find that this medium influences social structures and thought patterns. Past and future are assimilated into the present. Time is not a continuum, but an ever-present reality. Oral communication also allows for the closest possible association of the knower and the known. Knowledge is not understood as a personal commodity, but rather as a communal event. Ritual, totem, and taboo, which regulate pure oral societies, serve as collective mnemonic aids. Myths and epics, sung or chanted, serve as collections of the wisdom, morals and customs of society. Those with good memories, especially the elders of the tribe, achieve a position of power. Those who speak loudest become the most efficient leaders. The “pure” oral world is a world of spirits. It is a world in which the elusiveness and interiority of the spoken word coincides with a dynamic concept of time, a world where a communal awareness rather than an individual awareness focuses human consciousness,"

"This exegetical term of the corporate personality is really a description of the mythical, tribal, traditional, and collectivist mentality ubiquitous in oral culture"
"This evolution of how we understand temporality is important to focus on because it points to the most basic and important level at which consciousness is shaped by developments in media and at a political level. Going forward, this observation will contextualize deep ontological difference between early and modern Christian culture, and explain the theological confusions that emerge from the modern assumption that the early Christians inhabited a more or less equivalent time consciousness."
"This is exemplified by eating Christ in the Eucharist, it is about becoming Christ, it is not an abstract treatise of ethics. The events of the Bible are virtually coexistent and available to us in the present which allows the coherence of this whole worldview."

>>18656550
Siriusly?
Hehe I samefagged and no one can notice

>>18656494
Lots. But none if it is by actual Africans

>>18656494
St. Augustine's Confessions

>>18656596
They are a bunch of dumb niggers

Niggers dont know how to write

>>18656584
Ever hear of Faust? Prometheus Unbound?

>>18656780
no, have you?

>>18656798
Yes! They are plays and they are meant to be read, not performed.

>>18656804
Plays are meant to be performed, not read.

Reads are meant to be played, not performed.

>>18656494
Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart is extremely notable and well-known in literary circles.

Egyptian lit?
does that count?

>>18656494
to this day still among the best and most unique novels i've ever read

>>18656494
I'm South African. I'm currently working through my collection of SA lit before I was going to make a thread on the topic, but I will give you some insight.

So the two most famous and critically acclaimed are Nadine Gordimer and J.M. Cotzee. Both have won nobel prizes in lit amongst other awards. Both of their work was originally cast in an anti-apartheid matrix. This should come as no surprise, as this theme pops up in almost all south african lit. Gordimer is more straight forward activist perspective, but her actual prose and crafting of fiction is fantastic. Truly world class. Cotzee is more interesting to me. He is a life long academic, and I love his style and the fact that he isnt as 1 dimensional as Gordimer, particularly as he doesn't mention politics. Read Cotzee if you want good SA long form fiction.

That said there are plenty of plays and poetry volumes, but once again race and apartheid is a very common theme. Athol Fugard and Roy Campbell being my favourite playwrite and poet respectively.

A real treat is the author I will mention in my next post.

>>18657132
My personal favourite is a short story author called Herman Charles Bosman. He is a fantastic sort of folk-story teller of Afrikaans culture, but all his works are in English. He writes scenes of early 1900s rural life in farming villages and on the frontiers. The prose is simple but packed with an authentic charm and humour, and is driven through his wonderful character descriptions. There used to be theatre actors that would go around the country performing his stories as a one man show narration.

The man himself was also a bit of enigma. He lived out in the sticks as a teacher and one day shot his step-brother. He went to prison and when he came out he wrote all these fantastic stories under a pseudonym. Beyond that, little is known about him. Most people cant associate him with a face and he was certainly never a celebrity figure.

Here's a link to some of his stories, they only take about 20 minutes to read. I highly reccomend "the love potion".
http://library.lol/fiction/37F14161AD1ECD9055CD31375266C343

>>18657132
I've only read Disgrace by Cotzee and it was good but I found his dialogue really stiff and didactic. Are all his novels like this?

>>18657203
I have only read disgrace and the Life & Times of Michael K myself. I preferred Life & Times, but their is lot of south african specific refrences and illusions. I can see what you mean about his dialogue, but I didnt notice it as much. I probably overlook some of his flaws as he is one of the few notable authors who isnt an outright activist.
I have been gorged on apartheid topics and so I long for anything a bit different.

Assuming you dont mind that you should read Gordimer. The conservationist is fantastic. The dialogue isnt as stiff (more focused on realism) but you will find the main characters inner monolouges are probably a bit too didactic. I think the reason they do this is that they might have an international audience in mind and as such think they might need to overexplain the subtilties. At least she does attempt to provide contrasting viewpoints through different characters. She does write a pretty good depiction of mental breakdown in the book though.

>>18656809
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closet_drama
>A closet drama is a play that is not intended to be performed onstage, but read by a solitary reader or sometimes out loud in a small group

>>18656671
based and blackpilled

>>18657266
>I think the reason they do this is that they might have an international audience in mind and as such think they might need to overexplain the subtilties.
This makes sense and was the impression I got reading Disgrace. I still enjoyed the book, it was just something I noticed and personally found a bit tiresome towards the end. I was still planning on reading Waiting for the Barbarians because I've heard good things. And I will check out Gordimer, I'm not familiar with her at all.

>>18657306
>Waiting for the Barbarians
ja its on my list too since I saw the trailer for the film.
>Gordimer
One thing to keep in mind with her is the position she is writing from. I don't really consider her a true "South African". She (Like many of the most fervent anti-apartheid activists and leftwing agitators) was a recent immigrant from an Eastern European Jewish background. I know to non-south africans the difference might not seem like much, but imo all these people had no stake or claim in the land that they try to moralize over. There is an ancestral aspect that they miss completely. Im not trying to be /pol/, but just give you some info on why you might find her much less empathetic to the position of whites and their history.

I am black and this is so disheartening. We still monkeys stuck in the oral phase of evolution? when can I expect african /lit (written by bantus)?

>>18657447
write it yourself and make sure it's not just seething about whitey

>>18657185
Sounds fun, thanks Anon.

>>18657447
You can do it! I believe in you! Everyone thought Macedonians were dumb until Aristotle came along.

>>18656494
No.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b2JMOmUJRo

>>18657447
Eugh. Nigga this is sad as a bitch. Stop letting whites guide your feelings on your own race. Jesus Christ.
Although in all likelihood you're a white LARPer. I don't understand how any non white could spend significant time on 4chan and come away with a racial inferiority complex
There's plenty of quality African lit, a lot of it is about the various wars fought in the last half century or so. That or reflections on colonialism. Whites like to carton off sections of literature as inferior because apparently writing about the time your "nation" was under the heel of a literal alien race is trite. But the overwhelming amount of great Euro lit in the past century that's about WW2 examined from every possible angle gets a pass. You have to understand that an honest examination of Black lit does not serve the people here in any capacity. Their interests are such that diminishing black lit is the only reasonable thing to do when they come across a discussion of it. I've long since abandoned good faith arguments about African literature and so has everyone else. It's as pointless as wailing at the sun for rising.

>>18656907
Achebe is a midwit but I'll concede the book was alright.

>>18656907
When the most notable literary work of an entire continet is a merely okay novel then you must at least ponder that polfags are onto something.

>>18657663
>Although in all likelihood you're a white LARPer.
I see what you did there, anon.

>>18656494
I heard of a guy called Uthman Dan Fodio who was a basically a Muslim philosophical-founder of a 19th century caliphate called Sokoto. He apparently wrote on a lot of things but I'm not sure how accessible any of it is.

Pic related has been praised but I found it to be rather meh.
The prose and the writing style fit the bill and it certainly feels like an old storyteller gives you a good tale. But then it just goes on and on and while it does feel quite reminiscent of old timey fairy tales it lacks the brevity and wit of such stories.

Literary pursuits are reserved for societies with plentiful food, water, and shelter.
Any culture where your next meal is a primary concern will not produce any literature

>>18656660
imagine being paid to write this type of horseshit

>>18657663
Give us some recs Anon, what are your favorite works of African literature? What are some essential works? I only really know of the better known writers like Ngugi wa Thiong'o and Achebe but I've yet to read them.

>>18656494
I guess the reason why they looted all the other stores was because they hate consumerism so much.

Breyten Breytenbach is a good poet with a cool name.

Prince Machela writes for the Sowetan Times

“In the midst of the political confusion that has gripped our country, many people are wondering if we have come to the end of South Africa.

The answer is simple: The thing called an “end” does not exist, not in relation to a country. SA will be there long after Jacob Zuma is gone.

What Zuma has done, is to make us come to the realisation that ours is just another African country, not some exceptional country on the southern tip of the African continent.

During the presidency of Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki, some among us used to believe that the black people of SA are better than those of other African countries.

We must all thank Zuma for revealing our true African character; that the idea of rule of law is not part of who we are, & that constitutionalism is a concept far ahead of us as a people.

How else are we to explain the thousands of people who flock to stadiums to clap hands for a president who has violated their country’s constitution? Such people have no idea of constitutionalism.

Now that we have reclaimed our place as another African country, we must reflect on & come to terms with our real character, and imagine what our future portends.

In a typical African country, ordinary people don’t expect much of politicians, because people get tired of repeated empty promises.

In a typical African country, people have no illusions about the unity of morality and governance. People know that those who have power, have it for themselves & their friends and families.

The idea that the state is an instrument for people’s development, is a Western concept, and has been copied by pockets of Asian countries.

>>18658514
[cont..]
Africans & their leaders don’t like to copy from the West. They are happy to remain African, & do things “the African way”.

The African way, is rule by kings, chiefs & indunas, in a setting of unwritten rules. Is there anyone who has seen a book of African customary laws?

The idea that a commoner can raise questions about public money spent on the residence of a king, is not African. The ANC MPs who have been defending Zuma, are true Africans.

Asking a ruler to be accountable is a foreign – Western – idea. In a situation where there is conflict between a ruler and laws, Africans simply change the laws to protect the ruler. This is why no single white person has called for King Dalindyebo to be released from jail.

The problem with clever blacks, is that they think they live in Europe,where ideas of democracy have been refined over centuries.

What we need to do is to come back to reality, and accept that ours is a typical African country. Such a return to reality will give us a fairly good idea of what SA’s future might look like …

This country will not look like Denmark. It might look like Nigeria, where anti-corruption crusaders are an oddity. Being an African country, ours will not look like Germany. SA might look like Kenya, where tribalism drives politics.

People must not entertain the illusion that a day is coming when SA will look like the USA. Our future is more on the side of Zimbabwe, where one ruler is more powerful than the rest of the population. Even if Julius Malema were to become president, it would still be the same.

African leaders don’t like the idea of an educated populace, for clever people are difficult to govern. Mandela and Mbeki were themselves corrupted by Western education. (Admission: this columnist is also corrupted by such education.)

Zuma remains African. His mentality is in line with Boko Haram. He is suspicious of educated people; what he calls “clever blacks”. Remember that Boko Haram means “Against Western Education”.

The people who think we have come to the end of SA, don’t realise that we have actually come to the beginning of a real African country, away from the Western illusions of exceptionalism. Those who are unsettled by this true African character need help. The best we can do for them is to ask them to look north of the Limpopo River, to learn more about governance in Africa.

What makes most people restless about the future of SA, is that they have Western models in mind, forgetting that ours is an African country.

The idea that a president can resign simply because a court of law has delivered an adverse judgment is Western. Only the Prime Minister of Iceland does that; African rulers will never do that.

Analysed carefully, the notion of SA coming to an “end” is an expression of a Western value system – of accountability, political morality, reason, and so on.

>>18656536
this is true. also go read marechera asap

>>18658518
[cont...]
All these are lofty ideas of Socrates, Kant, Hegel, and so on. They are not African.

All of us must thank Jacob Zuma for introducing us to the real African Republic of South Africa, not some outpost of European values.

By Prince Machela – The Sowetan Times

I don't think so? How can they have notable literature if they cannot read and write?

>>18658514
>>18658518
I wonder what this guy thinks of Botswana.

>>18658579
What about Botswana?

>>18658605
It's one of the most stable African countries, so I'm curious how Machela feels about them considering he doesn't seem to believe African countries are capable of having even a semblance of stability. Does he think they are just an outlier, or that they managed to start off better because they understood theirselves better than their fellow African countries?

>>18658628
I don't think he believes that African countries are incapable of having stability. I think the piece he wrote on south africa is satire, meant to get people to think about what they are doing. It'll probably fly over the heads of the people it's intended for tho.

>>18656536
>>18658519
I have to read his biography for school, didn't start yet, why is he based
The only thing i know about him it's that he is ultra anti-religion

I liked Sembene Ousman when I read him.

>>18656907
Things Fall Apart wasn't bad, not something I would have read of my own volition but as far as university readings have gone, pretty decent

you know.... Africa isn't just tribes of roaming blacks, right?

>>18658674
He is anti-abrahamistic religions. He actually came to my hometown for a book festival, didn't know a lot about thr guy, but his comments on africa and the history of it's religions really intrigued me. Ended up buying his book (Season of Anomy), mostly for the excuse to briefly chat with him during the signing. He's a great man, definitely based and nothing like the "muh race muh oppression" "african" american authors/public. This man lives and breathes his culture, and knows exactly what the problems are. If you want real african thoughts and analyses, read people like him, not some 8th generation mutt larper.

>>18656494
The only African book I've read was Purple Hibiscus in High School for a class. It was pretty good, I wouldnt say its groundbreaking but I enjoyed it.

>>18656515
also not about hating white people, its about family dynamics in African culture.

nothing it is an indictment on the whole race they could hardly create anything even half as masterful as the Iliad

They're not capable and it's ok

>>18658628
Anon, Botswana is literally in the midst of authoritarian backslide, the Khama family (Ian Khama, really) is very opposed to the new president but they are locked out of power for now at least. You're correct that it was very stable and well run nation in the 20th century, especially compared to their neighbors but things have changed in the past 2 years. Who knows what the future holds but I think even Botswana is not immune to poor governance and corruption. Now that said Botswana is fairly homogenous tribe wise so their politics will not end up as partisan as their neighbors.

>>18657132
Hey anon, I'm curious about the classification of South African literature, it is consider to be English literature or it is beneath German/Dutch/Afrikaans literature in the library?

lol they got more books during the lootings

>>18656536
And Things Fall Apart by I can't ever remember his name. You really feel so bad for the main character at the end. Everyone shat on him and all he ever wanted to do was grow yams and pay his father's debts

>>18656494
Does Europe?

>>18659145

>>18661092

>>18658628
Bostwana has the advantage of being empty. It's a mid sized country (about the size of France) populated by barely more than 2 million people. It was only 500k at decolonization though, so expect issues from suicidal demography as in the rest of Africa.
It also has an overwhelming ethnic group (80% of the population). Unlike hutus they aren't being subverted and assert brutal ethnic domination. Since it's a landlocked country and neighbors are incompetent, there was little risk of invasion. It also benefits from their diamonds, the majority of their exports.
There simply have been very little pressure for conflicts. This may change, because even the 2 million population is starting to face problems.

>>18656494
Unfortunately for you OP and your bait thread
>J.M. Coetzee
probably the most important English writer today
>b-but he's white
he's from South Africa...he counts

Someone recommend me some niggerkino about post-colonial African dictatorships. Don't care who the author is or what their political beliefs are as long as it isn't some bleeding-heart sob story

>>18661075
All English African literature generally falls under the classification "Africana". After SA stuff this is mostly topics like colonial Kenya (see Out of Africa) or travel lit. around the rest of the continent. Afrikaans lit. is separate, but I haven't read anything in Afrikaans for years so I'm not too well versed in it.

Things Fall Apart, Chinua Achebe
Basedinka has already be mentioned, Death and The King's Horseman is probably the most famous.

In terms of the diaspora in the US, Toni Morrison is probably one of the greatest living writers in any language, but definitely one of the top few American writers of her era. Beloved and Song of Solomon are my favorites.

In terms of older stuff, you'll find much less. Your best bet is often going to be oral traditions taken down post-colonialism, which obviously isn't ideal because they were often taken down in a foreign language, and also taken down by foreigners who might not have been wholly accurate and in some cases intentionally distorted based on their own cultural sensibilities.

On the one hand, talking about Africa in general is going to be misleading because it's a huge continent with geographical divisions that led to huge cultural and genetic divided in populations. At the same time, working with the African Union, I did notice a shared pan-African identity that emerges from the disruption of culture most Africans experienced.

History pre-colonialism is extremely fractured due to lack of writing. The same is true of the Americas. Development theorists also posit lack of writing and a strong canon of literary and philosophical works for the reason African and American cultures collapsed so quickly and so completely, being largely replaced by colonial institutions, culture, and languages. Meanwhile Asian countries subject to longer colonization tended to have relatively little cultural penetration due to a long established written canon and more complex established beaurocracy that colonists had to build on, instead of setting up systems from scratch.

So there aren't thousand + year old canonical texts that unite cultures like Plato in the West, the Bible in the West and Middle East, the Upanishads on the subcontinent, or the Analects in the Far East.

>>18656625
Nice book collection, I can tell you have a complete disrespect for knowledge and intellectual pursuits. Why don't you leave those things in a store where they belong you piece of shit

>>18661215
Martin Meredith has a fairly comprehensive survery of post-colonial SSA from the end of the colonies to the early 2000s called The Fate of Africa.

Do Egyptians call themselves Africans?

>>18661167
>>J.M. Coetzee
>anti-Apartheid
>moves to australia in 2002
what did he mean by this?
> "I did not so much leave South Africa, a country with which I retain strong emotional ties, but come to Australia. I came because from the time of my first visit in 1991, I was attracted by the free and generous spirit of the people, by the beauty of the land itself and—when I first saw Adelaide—by the grace of the city that I now have the honour of calling my home."[8] When he moved to Australia, Coetzee cited the South African government's lax attitude to crime in that country as a reason, leading to a spat with Thabo Mbeki, who said, "South Africa is not only a place of rape", referencing Coetzee's Disgrace.
>In February 2016, Coetzee was one of 61 signatories to a letter to Australian prime minister Malcolm Turnbull and immigration minister Peter Dutton condemning their government's policy of offshore detention of asylum seekers.
Is there any reason to read some one so short sighted?

>>18658514
>>18658518
>>18658521
Oof.

If you guys are looking for less high-brow south african stuff, I've been told Deon Meyer writes really good thrillers and crime novels. He is probably the most popular south african author alive in terms of audience size, and his works (originally Afrikaans) have been translated into 25 languages. Also they just made a tv series based off one of his novels.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/sep/02/deon-meyer-meet-the-author

>>18661086
It was a pretty weak novel, especially when they made us read it to contrast The Heart of Darkness. It looks like something written by a highschooler compared to that.

>>18658028
http://libgen.gs/item/index.php?md5=7B73A4C09F422548BE582615909542C4

"<...> Professor Loubser’s confrontation with how Scripture is read, understood, and used in the Third World situation, which is closer than modern European societies to the social dynamics of the original milieu in which the texts were produced. <...> manuscripts are written to be remembered and read aloud, where scribal products exhibit both a metonymic and a polyvalent quality, where many handwritten documents are oral transcripts—i.e., written records of multiple oral performances—where tradition supersedes individual creativity, where correspondences between Matthew and Luke are not readily taken for signs of literary dependence, where great variability exists in scribal-oral interfaces, and much more."

>>18656660
What does ANY of that mean? Seems like literal nonsense

>>18657132
>J.M. Cotzee

Isn't he that writer with that one awful famous book about how the main character's lesbo daughter gets raped by nigg and ends up marrying him.

>>18657083
Oh so this is where that album title by Talking Heads/Brian Eno came from

>>18658806
I’ll check it out

You might also like Nervous Conditions, and Joys if Motherhood.

>>18661983
>What does ANY of that mean?
It means that some people do not perceive time as linear, perceiving the happenstance of events as reenactment of the same patterns, where everything is possible and only your current 'NOW' matters.