/lit/ - Literature

It inspired me to do lots of research into mythology and religion around the world at a young age. Thanks tao of Pooh.

>>16497337
I like it but in retrospect I think it made me a quitist which has ultimately been a detriment to me

>>16497356
>think it made me a quitist
How did it do that?

>>16497529
I neglected the interior life because I focused more on accepting everything as some derivative result of divine harmony

Read the Zhuangzi instead (or at least first).

>>16497337
cool and good

>>16497337
I Ching
Tai Chi Classics
Secret of the Golden Flower

http://www.oocities.org/wu_weifarer/Yijing.html

>>16497337
Advaita with chinese characteristics

>>16497811

What is a good book to start with for learning more about ancient chinese philosophies?

>>16497356
>detriment
Hm.
>>16497751
Why would you say this. Read it second op.
>>16497816
Pbuh.
>>16498458
The Analects of Confucius.
>>16497337
Its a classic for a reason, supreme comfy levels desu.

>>16497337
overrated gibberish

>>16497337
essential reading for young people. gets them thinking abstractly. great for fundamentals in terms of logical paradoxes. the most practical taoists probably don't bother thinking much about it which is adulthood for many.

the le guin translation is comfy

>>16497337
Eloquently written, deceptively deep and all around very calming and no-nonsense.

If ever there was a way for modern man to get back into the spiritual realm, Taoism will get you back on track.

>>16497337
One of the most inspiring books I have read.

shallow ontology and to any westerner only a good cope with reality read.
Philosophically it is uninteresting (sadly)
I dont doubt it can serve the same purpose to a chink as heraclit to westerners though, even if the modern chink is incapable of applying it and instead just works on translating Hegel and Schmitt into chink script

>>16497337
How does one be a Daoist?

>>16497337
unironically 10x better than meditations but R*ddit fags love that book so much. Taoism is basically stoicism from the East.

>>16497337
Shocked something so good come out of China

>>16499636
Cringe pseud

>>16499636
>filtered out of this world by based laozi

doesnt work for me as a westerner already thoroughly immersed in the world of nietzsche, marx, heidegger, sartre et al

the eastern taoist/buddhist/zen tradition goes against everything i believe about freedom, will, and justice

to me, it is a bootlicker's philosophy

>>16500385
>>16499636
>>16498979
based
>>16500350
>>16500358
cringe

gives an insight to why the chinese people are so easily controlled by authoritarian regimes

why do they throw the bones?

>>16500385
>the eastern taoist/buddhist/zen tradition goes against everything i believe about freedom, will, and justice
in what way?

>>16500518
to westerners they are all Quietist religions and that is how they are taught in uni.

>>16500540
as opposed to some kind of will-to-power view of life?

>>16500542
do you not know quietism?
literally anything from western philosophy is not quietist

>>16500667
>do you not know quietism?
I don't know why but I never commit stuff like this to memory. I've googled "positivism" at least three times in the las month. I think I kind of remember what the concepts are, I just don't find it worth remembering their names for whatever reason. probably it's just that there's so much, and whenever you're in an actual conversation you can just ask

>>16500727
Maybe try reading a book instead of wiki articles you dumb retard

>>16500732
why tho

>>16500727
>t. low iq nigger who doesn’t even realize how embarrassing his retardation is.

>>16500506
LMAO how?

This is such a braindead thing to say. Even if we take your premise about 'Chinese people,' then surely Legalism is the philosophical strain you would want

>>16497337
tao te ching is good but Zhuangzi is much better. Zhangzi's version of Daoism is probably my favorite philosophy

Taoism is great but westerners hyper fixate on the Tao te Ching, sure the Tao te Ching and Chuang Tzu are considered scriptural and key by all taoists but I never hear anyone in the west talking about Liezi, Ge Hong, the Daozang, the actual mythology and magical practices, the neidan and so forth. All of these things are considered very important to religious Taoism which are pushed under the rug in the name of some kind of secularism in the west.

>>16497337
It almost always heavily suffers the preconceptions and stereotypes Westerners (and many modern Chinese!) have about it unfortunately.

It is important for anyone reading it to consider just how old the text is- and how 'cohesive' as well. The version you read from a store today is almost certainly not the same as whatever form the DDJ took in the 4th century BC. What we have now is a sort of accepted compilation of various sections, commentaries, and re-orderings (probably). There many examples of classic Chinese philosophy that are both more concise and attributable to a single author and time period thanks to the region's many generations of literati- but unfortunately the DDJ is not one of them.

If one has even a passing interest and knowledge of Chinese, I think it is worth it to take a look at some of the passages and break them down character by character. If you haven't touched traditional Chinese before, you'll need to consult some resources- but I promise that even looking at the economy of words and repeating grammatical structures will be fruitful in terms of seeing new connections and patterns in the text.

I also encourage anyone who is interesting in the DDJ (or Chinese philosophy in general) to take some time to learns the basics of the historical context it was written in. The work can be read surprisingly politically if one wishes, and in this case it is important to situate it within the Warring States period.

Finally- remember that while many people have enjoyed the DDJ as purely a vague spiritual work (and this is a perfectly fine way to engage with it), there are some more rigorous ideas being engaged with in there. One worthwhile essay that gets into this is Paul D' Ambrosio's Blending Dao. It also includes a helpful breakdown of some recurring images in the text. Here is a link to it on google scholar:

https://www.academia.edu/33200084/Blending_Dao_Final_docx

>>16500979
mythology? magical practices? sounds like a lot of extra words to me

>>16500979
To be fair anon I think a lot of Chinese classicists also like to draw a distinction between more philosophical 'classical' Daoism and the various religious and medicinal practices- although maybe you could make the argument that this is simply in an attempt to create a secular Chinese philosophical tradition that mirrors the way we think about Western philosophy.

>>16500979
>Liezi, Ge Hong, the Daozang
probably cause there aren't many translations
>the actual mythology and magical practices
most normies use taoism as personal philosophy (some MBA retards probably use it for "leadership" roles too) and dismiss all the mysticism. Which is pretty stupid since they don't dismiss all the mystical bullshit from western philosophers. But there IS such a thing as purely philosophical daoism, even in the East

>>16501103
>some MBA retards probably use it for "leadership" roles too
The final graveyard of all Eastern philosophies lmao

>>16501096

Sure thing now tell me the hundreds and thousands of neidan manuals and literal worship of Laozi are unrelated to Taoism.

>>16501100

Of course but people think by studying just the Tao te Ching they have the final word on all things Taoism and act like it is the entirety of the religion.
>>16501103

Yes there’s a division but I don’t believe any purely philosophical taoist is gonna claim for a minute that other stuff is unrelated to Taoism as a umbrella and that stuff directly influences a lot of the philosophers consider something like the
Xuanxue Which approached Taoism as esotericism and rightfully so, and while the daozang isn’t translated there’s translations of liezi and it’s a shame not much of he gong is translated but I believe the translation of Taoism is more a problem of supply and demand issues, we don’t need new translations yearly of the Tao te Ching yearly but people assume it’s the Taoist bible, so all of the other writers and classics just get ignored.

>>16501187
>people assume it’s the Taoist bible
This is probably one of the major hangups right here- it often gets lumped into the same sort of category as the bible or koran or whatever. Of course, as you say, it can also be considered an equivalent to The Republic or some other philosophical classic. Both sorts of categorizations fail to capture the breadth of 'Taoist' thought.

Also, speaking of breadth of thought, there's the influence of Taoism on Chan Buddhism, and the various ways the Taoist tradition has served as a 'check' to other Chinese schools. And then there's its influence on art and lit. as well...

>>16497347
The Tao of Pooh was good. Were the followups good?

>>16501187
>Sure thing now tell me the hundreds and thousands of neidan manuals and literal worship of Laozi are unrelated to Taoism.
Laozi wouldn't be in favor of "hundreds of thousands of manuals" or being "literally worshipped." Chuangzi tells you outright to stop reading.

>>16501274

And Laozi isn’t the totality of Taoism nor is chuangzi, next you’ll tell me the Buddha never wanted to be worshipped so most Buddhism isn’t Buddhism.

>Daozang (Chinese: 道藏; pinyin: Dàozàng; Wade-Giles: Tao Tsang), meaning "Taoist Canon", consists of around 1,400 texts that were collected c. 400 (after the Dao De Jing and Zhuang Zi which are the core Taoist texts). They were collected by Taoist monks of the period in an attempt to bring together all of the teachings of Taoism, including all the commentaries and expositions of the various masters from the original teachings found in the Tao Te Ching and Zhuangzi. It was split into Three Grottoes
Authenticity Grotto (Dongzhen) 洞真部: Texts of Supreme Purity (Shangqing) tradition
This grotto is concerned mainly with meditation and is the highest phase of initiation for a Daoist master.
Mystery Grotto (Dongxuan) 洞玄部: Texts of Sacred Treasure (Lingbao) tradition
This grotto is concerned mainly with rituals and is the middle phase of initiation for a Daoist master.
Spirit Grotto (Dongshen) 洞神部: Texts of Three Sovereigns (Sanhuang) tradition
This grotto is concerned mainly with exorcisms and is the lowest phase of initiation for a Daoist master.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daozang

The Four Supplements, established ca. A.D. 500, originally contained works that traced their roots in one major scripture, except the last that included the texts of an established tradition:
Great Mystery (Taixuan), based on the Laozi (Daode jing);
Great Peace (Taiping), based on the Taiping jing;
Great Purity (Taiqing), based on the Taiqing jing and other alchemical texts deemed to have been revealed by the Great Purity, one of the several Heavens distinguished in Taoist cosmography;
Orthodox One (Zhengyi), based on the texts belonging to the identically named tradition, also known as Tianshi dao or Way of the Heavenly Masters.
https://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln270/Daozang.htm

This looks good, anyone read it?

>This long-awaited work, a milestone in Chinese studies, catalogs and describes all existing texts within the Taoist canon.
>This new work sets out the contents of the Daozang chronologically, allowing the reader to follow the long evolution of Taoist literature.

>>16497337
>Gravity is the root of lightness; stillness, the ruler of movement.
Daoism is incredibly based

>>16501344
can i skip to the highest phase if I don't really believe in any of that divine shit

>>16497337
Why does this book has so much soul? I can't describe it but I guess you know what I mean.

>>16501344
>The Way of the Celestial Masters is a Chinese Daoist movement that was founded by Zhang Daoling in 142 CE.[1] They rebelled against the Han Dynasty and won their independence in 194. At its height, the movement controlled a theocratic state in what is now Sichuan.
sounds like an orthodox Jewish tribe
>In 142 CE Zhang Daoling announced that Laozi had appeared to him and commanded him to rid the world of decadence and establish a new state consisting only of the ‘chosen people.’ Zhang became the first Celestial Master, and began to spread his newly founded movement throughout the province of Sichuan
kek. I love how they changed Laozi's personality ass time passed. this religion is fun to read about

>>16501701
how the fuck did they know about gravity back then? didn't Newton discover that

>>16501914
James Legge translation. Here's the same part from Mitchell's version:
>The heavy is the root of the light.
>The unmoved is the source of all movement.

>>16501845
No. If everyone went straight to the top first, nobody would perform the rituals and sacrifices that keeps the world from going to shit.

>>16501902
>The foundation of Celestial Master belief is that there is an energy source known as qi, that is born from the Dao and is the source of life all things. The human body contains spirits that need to be nourished by the proper balance of qi.[18] There are three types of qi: yin qi, yang qi and blended qi, which is mixed yin/yang qi.[19] The goal of a Daoist is to achieve transcendence to a higher plane. In order to do this, they must preserve and harmonize their internal spirits. Only through meditation that guides qi correctly throughout the body, can the spirits be harmonized correctly. While it is known that the Celestial Masters meditated in order to obtain qi, there is no surviving evidence that describes their meditation practices.[20]

>Practicing correct sexual practices was one method of perfecting the body's internal spirits. The Celestial Masters believed that semen is the embodiment of qi. If someone ejaculated too often, their life would be shortened.[28] In fact, the Xiang'er indicates that people should not even have sex for the purposes of reproduction.[29] The Celestial Masters frowned upon the practice of heqi (also known as 'The Union of the Breaths') of not ejaculating during sex in order to 'nourish the brain', and advocated non-ejaculation simply as a way to avoid losing qi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_the_Five_Pecks_of_Rice

The semen retention philosophy in this book may be influenced by this

>>16497337
It's pretty good but misunderstood by a lot of westerners.

>>16502002
I read a book on this, actually. The methods they use for semen retention are legit. The theory behind it is hogwash (from a Western materialist perspective), however. They use tightening of the kegel and the "press your taint" methods to do the semen retention. Interestingly, they use the "make your cock wiggle up and down" kegel tightening method, but they don't use the "tense your abs and try to blast your piss" method. I find the latter to be much more effective.

Do NOT do the "press your taint" thing though, that can cause actual damage.

>>16501960
honestly I'm just really interested in the practice of daoist meditation cause I know there are real benefits to it (although yes, they are overblown: read McMindfulness), and there's not much info about it online. And now that we have a whole meditation industry finding good shit online is harder and harder. At the end of the day I end up what I always do, the basics, which is ok but I'd like to explore more.
Even the Zhuangzi only mentions it once without a formal guide. It's possible that there was a more detailed guide which was edited out by Guo Xiang

>>16502028
>The Secret of the Golden Flower (Chinese: 太乙金華宗旨; pinyin: Tàiyǐ Jīnhuá Zōngzhǐ) is a Chinese Taoist classic about neidan (inner alchemy) meditation.
> the meditation technique described by The Secret of the Golden Flower is a straightforward, silent method; the book's description of meditation has been characterized as "Zen with details". The meditation technique, set forth in poetic language, reduces to a formula of sitting, breathing, and contemplating.

>>16500542
yes, more or less.

>>16497337
It helped me recenter myself when I had to move across country. It's pretty based and I should probably reread it.

>>16497337
https://youtu.be/Jr_20uEVOiE

>>16502028
Lookup the Nei Yeh or Inward Training for if you're looking for Taoist meditation. Harold Roth proposes that it predates TTC.