/vr/ - Retro Games

Fucking. Master. Sword.

The fact that so many sites still name Ocarina of Time as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" video game ever only tells you how far video games still are from becoming a serious art. Film critics have long recognized that the greatest films of all times are Citizen Kane and The Seventh Seal, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Literature critics rank the highly controversial Joyce's Ulysses over classical novels who were highly popular in libraries around Europe. Video games critics are still blinded by commercial success. Ocarina of Time invented lock-on (not true, by the way), therefore it must have been the greatest. Film critics grow up watching a lot of films of the past, literature critics grow up reading a lot of classical books of the past. Video game critics are often totally ignorant of the video games of the past, they barely know the Nintendo games. No wonder they will think that Ocarina did anything worthy of being saved.

>>10888417
Truth.
>>10888421
Weird.
>>10888430
Badly written, wish I hadn't read.

All of the 80's and 90's Zelda games are solid classics. Yes, even A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening are still pretty good.

>>10888430
Excellent summary, oot is the video game equivalent of fmab.

>>10888417
Usually I can understand why a game is popular/has a following but not with this one. It's just so goddamn boring.

Ahem.

>>10888470
What the fuck is fmab

>>10888657
Fe male at birth

>>10888478
Critics love OoT for the same reason they love TLoU.

>>10888430
Scaruffi outright fucking loves OoT though.

>>10888430
Films are not art. The amount of actual good films out there is absolutely pathetic considering the amount of time it has existed comparatively.

It's absolutely insane how, whenever I come back to this game, and play under the right conditions, everything in it coheres together in significant feeling ways that no other game does. It's almost endlessly miraculous, like it truly feels like a world in its own right, and the smallest details, like the particular ways things are lit and shaded under various conditions, or how its variety of areas and the states they can be in contrast against each other as you more between them, contribute to this, and no amount of mindlessly added complexity or brute forced realism would achieve this same thing without the same kind of curation and design forethought that went into this.

The more other games I play, and the more I explore how this one is composed in contrast, the clear it is how uniquely great it is. And it's not even the case at all that everything it does excellently is taken advantage of or appreciated, it gets so many things absolutely right that nothing afterwards was able to properly replicate, even in areas where it isn't really thought of as being exceptional.

>>10888417
Of. Shit.

>>10888430
Which in your opinion would hold that title rather than OOT? I honestly can't think of a game off the top of my head that was more influential of its time than that one, and OOT isn't my favorite game by a long shot.

>>10888417
Love that game and holds a special place in my heart.

>>10889057
Resident Evil 4, just off the top of my head.

Also, greatest =/= influential. Terminator 2 is one of the greatest action movies of all time, but it was not very influential.

>>10889092
>Resident Evil 4, just off the top of my head.
Not off the top of your head, RE4 is outright the best game ever. OoT is still up there though.

>>10889092
>Also, greatest =/= influential
If something is canonical, it has to bear some sort of merit to it by default. You can say the Odyssey by Homer isn't one of the best stories ever written because you think it's "le boring", but at that point it's just your opinion. There has to be some sort of objective barometer to determine greatness.

>>10889115
The Iliad was better.

>>10889117
Based

>>10888417
It’s crazy this held the greatest game title for two whole years until Mega Man Legends 2 released.

>>10888845
absolute braindead take. this is the most retarded thing I've ever seen posted on 4chan.

>>10888478
This is how I feel about every Zelda game. I remember seeing LttP at a friend's house and thinking it looked like the most fun shit ever. Borrowed it a while later and was bored to tears actually playing. Since then I've tried a bunch, Wind Waker looked cool at least but they're just so dull to play.

>>10888845
Go ahead and explain what you think "artc is and why films don't apply. I'll go get some popcorn cause I know this will be fun.

>>10889057
OoT really didn't influence much though, Zelda ih general doesn't. It's fans love the series, but the whole "PS1 Zelda Killers" thread highlights that very few games even try to follow in the vein of Zelda. It certainly didn't make Action Adventure as huge a genre as FF7 did for RPGs, or Open World games as huge a thing as GTA3. Zelda is huge with Nintendo fans, it doesn't influence a ton otherwise.

>>10889565
The truth destroyed this poor anon's brain.

>>10889104
A horror gore survival scary game cannot be the “best ever.” It’s niche enthusiast/fetish junk.

OoT was a huge disappointment for me as a kid. I was pretty hyped for it for years reading about it in Nintendo power. Miyamato was interviewed and said that it would take an entire day to cross hyrule. What they didn't say was that they meant in-game day, which is like 30 fucking seconds. Leaving kokiri for the first time thinking you're going on a grand adventure to just run into the town 20 seconds later was such a disappointment. I was expecting a huge game but it's fucking tiny and empty as fuck.

>>10889929
What games didn't disappoint you as a kid?

>>10889939
super metroid, goldeneye, ALttP.

Just that one quote about the world taking a day to cross is what ruined it for me. The world felt incredibly small.

>>10889947
What about Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, or Twilight Princess?

>>10889948
Those aren't touted as the greatest game ever made.

I was one of the ones disappointed by wind wakers art style after seeing the 2001 tech demo. Twilight Princess was too little too late. By this time I was in highschool and learned to take game developers with a grain of salt.

>>10889948
>>10889952
As for Majora's Mask I wasn't expecting much, just another Zelda. The time gimmick didn't really affect gameplay much when you learned the slow down song so whatever. It was just really boring have to wait around for people's schedules to get anything done though.

>>10889789
Define art then please. :)

>>10889952
I had almost the opposite reaction to Wind Waker. The first demo shots looked super weird, but when I saw it in motion thought it looked amazing. That art style basically pulled my through most of the game even though I didn't love it otherwise. It was just when the last dungeon was a remix of earlier looking dungeons I lost interest.

>>10889947
goldeneye was dogshit

>>10890053
gaming pcs were outrageously expensive in 1997 so you weren't getting a better FPS experience than goldeneye during that time. Especially for multiplayer. Carrying around a 97 monitor and pc to have a lan was pretty rare.

Seriously, a pentium 1 with 16mb of ram to run Dark Forces 2 would cost you like $3000 in 97 money.

>>10890095
Npt him and Goldeneye was bad, but PCs weren't that crazy expensive, I didn't even have an amazing one but Quake looked far better, and like a year later I was playing Tribes which blows it out of the water.

>>10888417
Definitely one of the RPG releases on the N64.

>>10890145
Truly

>>10890141
You can google pc prices from that era and they were that expensive. I got my first PC in 1999 and it was an average PC that cost somewhere around $2000. It didn't even have a GPU and could barely run unreal.

Quake was dated by the time goldeneye came out. Adding objectives really changed FPS gameplay forever. It also looked a lot better than bland brown castle level over and over.

>>10890156
Well we always had PCs so were always upgrading them, plus I had disposable income from working so a new card or upgrade here or there never seemed like a whole lot.

>>10888430
Counter argument, modern critics/modern publishers are so desperate to pretend like modern movies or books and even games are good that they're willing to shit on everything that came before and whose impact we still feel today. Which is why whenever we see some reboot or remake you get critics saying how the older games are clunky or outdated or any other kind of insult they can pull out of their ass.

>>10889947
>>10889952
based sane tendie, wish more were like you

>>10890156
We got subsidized price cuts on PCs over here, so they were cheap enough that it didn't matter. Every home a computer and all that.

>>10890206
Hey, I noticed you used the term "based" in your comment. Just a heads up, "based" is often associated with the alt-right movement, and its usage can convey alignment with ideologies that many find harmful or offensive. Steering clear of such language helps create a more inclusive and respectful online environment for everyone. Thanks for being mindful of the words we use!

>>10889128
Legends 2 was cool but it should have been longer and let you pilot the airship like in skies or arcadia

>>10890261
>"based" is often associated with the alt-right movement, and its usage can convey alignment with ideologies that many find harmful or offensive.
Based

>>10890261
>>10890206
>>10890448
Serious question from an old man, what the fuck do you people actually mean when you use that word? It seems almost completely arbitrary to me.

>>10888417
>nothing in the game feels dated or done better in later entries, save for small QOL changes such as bottom screen item arrangement for the 3d remake
>graphics are right up there with the best of the time period
>everything is cohesive, nothing in the game feels like padding or extraneous bullshit, the game has the PERFECT amount of play time for a 100% playthrough without being too short or overstaying its welcome
>encapsulates the scope of a big fantasy world extremely well
>beats out a lot of modern games in its gameplay
>10/10 sound and music design
>core mechanic of time travel is brilliant, not overdone, not shallow
It really is a perfect game.

>graphics are right up there with the best of the time period

This is the one I find most funny because the main reason I never even tried OoT is because it was so incredibly ugly. LttP I at least tried to get into, but Ocarina is such an eyesore I never bothered. That was my reaction to most N64 games and 5th gen in general though. Trying to do 3D on hardware that makes it all look like ass.

>>10891187
>That was my reaction to most N64 games and 5th gen in general though.
Really just depends on what aesthetic the devs were going for and what the consumer was looking for. 5th gen games, and the N64 in particular, have an inherently surreal look to them. I think it works really well for games that want to feel either warm (“comfy”) or creepy. Everything looks like a manifestation of trying to recall a distant memory, something that isn’t fully defined.

All that being said, I didn’t care about any of that during the 5th gen. All I knew was that the 64 was a bit step up from my GBC in most ways.

>>10890559
>Serious question from an old man, what the fuck do you people actually mean when you use that word? It seems almost completely arbitrary to me.
Oldfag. It means... like, whatever you like want it to mean, like, at any like, given moment. It's like, totally, like, arbitrary and like, shit.
Not once have I ever been given a straight answer about what based means and I've asked that question many times over the years.
It might as well be bix nood gibberish.

>>10890559
>>10891426
It's just another way of saying you're cool/better/awesome and has been used on 4chan for a long time. Also try Urban Dictionary. Dumb newfags.

>>10891445
>It's just another way of saying you're cool/better/awesome and has been used on 4chan for a long time. Also try Urban Dictionary. Dumb newfags.
You're so based.
Also, GTFO oldfag. LULZ

>>10889057
SMB64
The original Legend of Zelda
Xevious
Metal Gear Solid
Dragon’s Quest
Halo
And that’s not even getting into the safe answers like SMB or Spacewars!

>>10890559
videogame boards are full of dimwits who spend all their time detached from the real world so by the time any new term reaches them, most of its original meaning will be gone.
Based is supposed to mean bold and truthful with no bullshit. It's when someone speaks the simple truth no matter the consequences.
But this particular term is like fucking 15 years old at this point and on most of 4chan (especially videogame boards) it just means upvote.

>>10891187
I dunno man, I'm playing it on a crt with s-video and I think it looks really nice.

>>10891614
This is the answer. Based just meant you dropped some knowledge, some truth bombs, but now it's been gentrified like >>10891445 says. It's just awesome, rad, cool, sick, dope, based. There you go

>>10890559
>>10891426
>>10891452
>>10891614
>>10891778
decidedly cringe desu

>>10888430
>Film critics have long recognized that the greatest films of all times are Citizen Kane and The Seventh Seal
This is wrong though

>>10888417
is there any place to download Ship of Harkinian already converted? i'm too retarded to do all those steps

>>10888430
This ignores the fact that anyone can write a good book in his bedroom alone, that anyone can make a good movie with his friend group and a camera, that anyone can make a good music track alone with a computer and a keyboard, but video games on a big scale require huge budgets and big teams of expensive talent. OoT is the culmination of 15 years of accumulated talent and experience, it has the broadest appeal of any video game, it has great pacing, great exploration, an amazing soundtrack, a haunting atmosphere, clever dungeons and lots of sidequests and secrets.

Everyone can tell the difference between a high budget game like this and low budget falcomslop.

>>10892326
>that anyone can make a good movie with his friend group and a camera

It'd argue that, given you already have the framework for a game like OoT, it's far easier to take that and augment it into something else actually good than it would be to try to create any film of worth, given how hard it is to access and use the tools and teams required to create a professional quality film compared to that of a great game.

>>10888430
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head.

>>10892342
For sure, Sabatu's Tomb Raider, which is just edited levels of Tomb Raider 1, in my opinion eclipses OoT, but those fan projects are still derivative

>>10891614
>>10891778
locked

>>10892326
>anyone can make a good movie with his friend group and a camera
>but video games on a big scale require huge budgets and big teams of expensive talent
it's far easier to make good video games as an individual than it is to make good films.
>it has the broadest appeal of any video game
For you. Objectively speaking, series like Mario Kart have a broader appeal than OoT, proven by its strong sales entry after entry.

>>10892348
Untrue. That's less than half the humour. There are MANY obscure cultural references that will fly by the average shut in physicist, aside from the observational humour, well disguised Easter eggs and blatant slapstick.

>>10892391
The sign is a subtle joke. The shop is called "Sneed's Feed & Seed," where feed and seed both end in the sound "-eed," thus rhyming with the name of the owner, Sneed. The sign says that the shop was "Formerly Chuck's," implying that the two words beginning with "F" and "S" would have ended with "-uck," rhyming with "Chuck." So, when Chuck owned the shop, it would have been called "Chuck's Fuck and Suck."

>>10892348
Untrue. That's less than half the humour. There are MANY obscure cultural references that will fly by the average shut in physicist, aside from the observational humour, well disguised Easter eggs and blatant slapstick.

Also only the most junior minds agree with OP. Try baiting with something less boring once in a while.

>>10892403
The sign is a subtle joke. The shop is called "Sneed's Feed & Seed," where feed and seed both end in the sound "-eed," thus rhyming with the name of the owner, Sneed. The sign says that the shop was "Formerly Chuck's," implying that the two words beginning with "F" and "S" would have ended with "-uck," rhyming with "Chuck." So, when Chuck owned the shop, it would have been called "Chuck's Fuck and Suck."

>>10889708
According to Rockstar GTA3 was influenced by OoT so your argument is flawed.

>>10892405
Chatbot post or just someone desperate to show how 'smart' they are, answering a question nobody asked? Stay ot.

>>10891114
>graphics
Get real. Oot's graphics were already too ambitious for the underwhelming n64 hardware and utterly destroyed by PC hardware and games of the day.

>>10892436
utterly destroyed by PC games such as...? the floor is yourn.

*strokes and jerks my penis and cums in the cartridge* master this... hahaha

>>10892326
>it has the broadest appeal of any video game,

It really doesn't. You just think it does because it's your favorite game and you can't understand how something that's your favorite isn't everyone's favorite.

>>10892436
newfag

>>10891778
>>10891614
well the word originally was used to call someone a crackhead until Lil B reclaimed it to describe himself so it can really mean whatever the fuck, language is flexible. People started using it back in the early 2010s when Lil B was getting big and it stuck around and became part of general language.

>>10891426
there is no straight answer on what it means because its just a word Lil B made up and it got big enough that people use it now without knowing he was the origin
see >>10892459

Lil B was really popular on /v/ back in the day for some reason when the mods there didn't give a fuck and half the board was off topic

>>10889128
>>10890268
Legends 2 isn't even better than Legends 1.

>>10888430
>obligatory citizen kane reference
Oh sweet a midwit thread.

>>10888430
>The fact that so many sites still name Ocarina of Time as "the greatest or most significant or most influential"

Can you list some of these sites? I'm curious who actually says this.

>>10890095
>Seriously, a pentium 1 with 16mb of ram to run Dark Forces 2 would cost you like $3000 in 97 money.

I do get that playing PC FPS games would be too expensive for a lot of children in that era, but 3 grand is a bit exaggerated. I bought a Pentium 166MMX from Micron that summer for $1600 working a summer job for my city's water dept. Came with the S3 Virge (of course) and then I added a Canopus Voodoo 1 later that year to play GLQuake. And yes, Goldeneye was absolute dogshit.

>>10892458
>not constructing a well thought out argument stating why strawberry is superior to chocolate

>>10892326
This is a colander argument if there ever was. Large budget development is obvious because of hype/marketing.

>>10892659
>missing the emotive element entirely
This explains a lot.

>>10888478
Easy. Overhyped game-starved console gets overhyped game. You seen what happens when an aid truck arrives at a refugee camp? Oot is the rice.

should I play this on gamecube or the 3ds port because the 64 controller kinda sucks balls

>>10892619
metacritic.com

>>10892619
>>10892386
>>10892458
https://www.metacritic.com/browse/game/

debunk this, windwakersisters

>>10892386
It took a lot longer for Pixel to make Cave Story than it took Refn to make Pusher.

>>10893671
I like the gamecube version. 3ds version sucks balls.

>>10893791
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117407/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cl_sm

Now compare it to Cave Story's credits which probably looks like this:

>Everything: Pixel

gotta love how we can't have zelda, sonic, or jrpg threads without people who don't like those games ruining them and how the notoriously delete happy jannies do nothing about actual retards shitting up threads.

>Cave Story
oh right, the game where the main discussion is purely sexually deprived trash and some attention whore artist, because the actual game is pretty average and the developer likes to see their work violated and milked by shady Californians.

I could name at least 5 similar games that bitch slap Cave Story's shit despite it's one dev army feat.

>>10894267
Then do it.

>>10888478
It's because you're non-white. Sorry, anon.

>>10892458
Never seen a post demonstrate projection more than this. Ironically it's YOU who fails to understand that other peoples' opinions are different, because not acknowledging OoT's widespread appeal puts you in the absolute minority.

Nobody just "thinks" ocarina of time had broad appeal, that's the legacy it actually has. It's objectively one of the most popular and highly rated games of all time. The autism infographic you posted applies to you far more than anyone you're trying to argue with.

>>10894379
>It's objectively one of the most popular and highly rated games of all time
Most people were on PS1 at the time, and I can guarantee you that most gen Z and alpha gamers have never played it.

>>10888417
you straight capping if you say that ngl

>>10888430
>Film critics grow up watching films of the past
>Literature critics grow up reading classical books of the past
>Vidya game critics grow up watching other vidya game critics on YouTube and think "how can I get this many followers"
Found the problem

>>10894025
what we can't have are threads that are critical of zelda games without getting deleted instantly

>>10894923
Film critics don't watch films of the past anymore unfortunately. Most of them do not even pay attention to the modern movies they are reviewing. Film criticism has devolved into political culture warring and clickbait.

>>10890559
'based' often means "cool contrarianism"
the apparent arbitrariness is the variance on what degree of contrarianism different people consider acceptable

>>10895567
Who specifically are you talking about?

>>10895625
Nobody specific. Modern critics do not care about the quality of a film, they only care about whether or not the film fits their political agenda.

>>10895656
Ohh so you just pull it randomly from your ass. Of course. Your opinion is so important.

>>10895676
My opinion is more important than yours gayboy.

>>10895681
It's cute you think that. I'm sorry that film reviewers trigger your feelings.

>>10894025
This site is unusable now. If you want genuine Zelda discussion go to Zelda Dungeon or one of its competitors. Everyone here now has the motives to bring actual well known classics down to prop up their favorite shit game(s) that get next to no real discussion because they're shit. There are unironic "ACKshually, Metroid: Other M was the best game in the series" threads happening on /v/ now.

>>10894025
This site is unusable now. If you want genuine Zelda discussion go to Zelda Dungeon or one of its competitors. Everyone here has the motives to bring down well known classics to prop up their favorite shit game(s) they're nostalgic for that generate next to no organic discussion because they're shit. There are unironic "ACKshually, Metroid: Other M was the best game in the series" threads happening on /v/ now.

>>10895850
>>10894025

If Zelda threads were spammed here on a daily basis with ones like this that aren't even trying to start an interesting discussion, the reactions wouldn't be nearly as bad. I used to somewhat enjoy Zelda, but the way this board has gone in the last few years I'm utterly sick of it. So yeah, make a shitty thread with no other content than "Master. Fucking. Piece." Expect to get a poor response.

Maybe even try playing something else so maybe you have something interesting to say for once.

>>10888417
>Master. Piece.
Not with that framerate it ain't.

>>10895585
Cool story bro.
Sarcasm. ^ That's what it looks like btw.

>>10894025
The weekly appearance of 'save Sega' threads and the like makes anons cynical. Granted there's less Zelda = goat threads recently but it needs to be left alone much longer for me to not groan at the sight of one.

>>10888417
That game ruined every other game I've ever played after it. Nothing could match it.
I was not master of my domain

>>10888417
It was alright.
I liked the music.

>>10895935
This.
This thread is bait and if you think otherwise you are part of the problem.