/sci/ - Science & Math

"Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And once it does come, we no longer exist."

>>6960918
But I don't want to not exist.

>>6960918
Epicurus?

>>6960918
>>6960923
I want to continue learning, discovering, interacting with my environment and just LIVING

>>6960923
Why not? It's not like you're there aware of your non existence, there is no I

>>6960930
It just makes me uncomfortable that at some point I will not be able to comprehend my own nonexistence.

>>6960914
>How does /sci/ deal with thoughts of their own mortality?

Feels good to have a way out.
What if life sucked and you were immortal.

I would like to be immortal too.

>>6960932
Life could always get better

>>6960931
>my own nonexistence

There is no such thing, there is no I

Does anyone believe for a second that death is "a pathway" and not just an abrupt and absolute wall (OP asking an actual question not proposing a Socratic argument)

One must pay dearly for immortality; one has to die several times while one is still alive.

>>6960943
Elaborate?

>>6960935
>Life could always get better
It could always get worse too.

>>6960944
go ask nietzsche

>>6960938
I suppose you are right in that the "present" is an illusion of the consciousness fabricated by compiling memories of the past. But in death one's access to those memories and the processes that compiled them is severed and thus your perception of the world and the world itself are null. Though in that way the onset of amnesia or degenerative disorders like Alzheimer's or Huntington's would also count as a death of the self.

>>6960956
Though looking at lit now even the simple degradation of memory over time could be perceived as death of the self.

Imagine how life would be if there would be nothing left to discover, nothing left to know. I'd be begging for death. I believe death is a process one needs to go through in order to purify one's soul/consciousness/whatever. The price is that you'll have to forget everything about yourself. Nothing is lost though, only forgotten to discover once more. Again and again.

>>6960977
But what exists when there is no way to perceive it? In death your perception is removed

>>6960929
Well not to worry, because when you're dead you won't want to do anything.
There's nothing in the dark. For some reason people think nothing is frightening or full of suffering. But nothing is the most peaceful thing there is.

Think of taking a walk through the woods on a cold winter's day. Did you hear the dead trees writhing and screaming? Did you hear them moaning in agony?

Think of the last dead body you saw. Do you think they were in pain? Do you even think there was a single earthly thought going on in their head?

>>6960977
don't get me wrong I understand the concept of a personal hell formed by boredom and the lack of new knowledge, but I want to get to that point before I decide whether or not death is something I am willing to accept and embrace.

Though I suppose that might change as I age.

>>6960987
No, I don't think that there is pain in death, these is a sort of peace but it's a peace that I don't believe I can comprehend.

>>6960977
>Implying knowledge isn't exponential
>Implying we will ever run out of things to discover

you are going to die, your existence will end. Accept it faggot

>>6960991
It's a peace you won't be able to comprehend because your brain will be off, dead, so you won't be around at all. Probably. You can't be harmed or suffer if you aren't around.

>>6961003
Nigger he's obviously not concerned about suffering or pain but the non-existence part of death. You are arguing something completely irrelevant to his point.

>>6961013
Thanks.
I suppose we will never understand true nonexistence until we understand our own existence, specifically the consciousness.

And just as well it is the unknown contents of nonexistence that scares me, I would be fine if there were SOMETHING there, even an unending hell.

>>6960994
>exponential knowledge
you dont know what the fuck you are even talking about.

>>6961017
knowledge builds upon itself, we acquire knowledge, and we acquire knowledge on how we found that knowledge and so on, and so forth forever until you reach some origin point which honestly probably doesn't exist.

OP here. Thanks for the input.
Right now I'm only 18 and I suppose I will change as time moves forward, maybe I will come to accept eventual nonexistence.
For now I guess I'll continue on my life.
I want to help.
I want to discover what it means to be truly human, to understand the human consciousness through the application of computer science and electrical facsimiles

>>6960914
Whatever happens after I'm dead is of zero concern to me as I simply wont excist anymore, therefore I limit my worries to the events preceeding it.
As for the death itself I imagine that regardless of how bad or painful the event will turn out to be it can but happen once.
Therefore even if I can't deal with it at the time, like I die burning or something horrible, it's still cool since I don't have to successfully deal with it.

You know, because when it's over I'm already dead.

As for existential anxiety etc I imagine how I've already been dead from at least 13.5 billion years up until the day I was assembled, and there was nothing scary about it.

>>6961078
>I want to discover what it means to be truly human

Impossible, inherently subjective

>to understand the human consciousness through the application of computer science

Would say impossible as well but not certain, consciousness seems to be much more than computational shenanigans.

>>6961085
It's not scary because you fear what happens to you after you are dead. The thing is, you know you won't be around and that thought bothers you right now, while still alive.

>>6961086
Oh no consciousness is an illusion we create with the carbon based brain. I want to replicate it on a silicon-based platform.

>>6961086
The "truly human" bit is theatrics. Can't blame a guy with a flair for the dramatic.

>>6960943
>>6960950
>The year of our Lord MMXIV
>Sitting Nietzsche in a philosophical argument
Kek'ing keks. Literally anyone that is neither a euphoric gamma or a 16 years old Facebook dwelling manchild knows that Nietzsche was just an ill, emo virgin that was all edgy about music whom got betrayed by his own sister after entering a euphoric state of autism.

>>6961099
In a way consciousness is like the mechanism that runs a brain through which perciption becomes memory, the compiler through which code becomes function, the ribosomes through which RNA moves to create protein.

>>6961099
>Consciousness is an illusion WE create

So consciousness is an illusion created by an illusion?

Anyone under the age of 40 has a good chance of living for as long as they please, whether hundreds or thousands of years

Uploading consciousness, perfect organ printing, gene therapy, there is a bunch of potential ways for humans to unlock extreme longevity within the coming decades, probably will strike lucky with one of them

Nothing really matters.

We're all gonna die and nothing we do in life can stop that

>>6961109
Maybe

>>6961111
That's quitter talk

>>6961111

Rage against the dying of the light, beta

>>6961094
We'll none of us was around for them13.5 billion years either, if we're somehow cool with having missed all the fun happening since
the dawn of the universe I think we have it in us to get over all them parties that's gonna happen once we're too old and too dead to participate also.

>>6961109
I suppose it is, it's certainly something that I want to work on. With things like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NOncx2jU0Q

Maybe we can get to the real deal in the sense of complete body replacement and techniques to preserve the physical brain.

>>6961013
I guess I'm arguing that there's no reason to be concerned about the non-existence involved with being dead, since you aren't around to experience it.

>>6961109
the only correct answer

philosophy and religious bullshit won't satisfy your thoughts in the end

>>6961125

The human brain is the only problem with trying to preserve the physical body with young organs/blood since it can't be replaced, brains have a lifespan of about 100 years before they start going faulty
They'll be able to copy the brain in a couple of decades although it won't actually be you, transferring consciousness is a whole other world altogether though since they haven't even defined consciousness

Still there are many other methods, it is pretty strange to know that we may be the first generation that will not die, it will catch most people unawares

While I would want to live forever, I know the concept would be disastrous for the human species.

Put simply, we are not psychologically or socially fit to live for an extended amount of time.

A lifespan many times longer than now would be a horrible thing for the future of our species and I myself would probably be willing to kill anyone that sought or peddled such a thing at this point in history.

>>6961136
But what I'm saying is that transferring the brain is all that we need to do. The consciousness is something that will follow when the transferred brain is "activated" so to speak. The consciousness is just that specific brain's real time (or in our case slightly delayed) perception of reality and is a natural follower of perception.

>>6961141
youtube-tier comment.

>>6961145
I'm no expert on that but I meant our own consciousness, the copy would probably be conscious, but it would be a separate being like a twin, we wouldn't see through its eyes, it would just be an exact copy

>>6961147
But that's something we don't know for sure yet. It's getting into quantum mechanics, specifically entanglement. Honestly we will never know until we actually pull it off.

>>6961147
But it's also getting into the nonexistence of death. If one dies, the original biological body, then the only one left is the "copy" thus it is the true consciousness.

Also think about the concept of teleportation. When you are disassembled on one end and re-atomized on the other doesn't that mean the original you is dead? and the new you is a carbon copy, with the same brain and consciousness

>>6961146
Look at the higher echelons of society right now.
If a viable immortality treatment became available today, those same people would be in power into perpetuity.

Now look at the lower echelons, the same people would be here for hundreds of years.

And all the while, access to space will remain as expensive as it is.

Any constraints to procreation would meet as much resistance as today.

Maybe the resulting disaster would force the human civilization to grow up, but is the possibility worth the risk?

>>6961161

Elderly are the biggest drain on society, the government would most likely make everyone eternally young if given the opportunity, good long-term investment

>>6961165
Except that many of the people in power have gotten into their positions out of greed and desire for power.

Why would they want to enfranchise everyone?

When you talk about the political system, if you assume the worst, you won't be wrong most of the time.

The society changes for the better, sure. But it does so mostly by way of the old dying and being replaced by the young(er).

>>6961109

>Uploading consciousness, perfect organ printing, gene therapy
>Anyone under the age of 40 has a good chance of living for as long as they please, whether hundreds or thousands of years

>>6961136

>They'll be able to copy the brain in a couple of decades

People actually believe this...

>>6961191
OK maybe not brain uploading in a few decades but it's entirely feasible within this century

>>6961191
>Closet dualism
Please leave.

>>6961191
>perfect organ printing, gene therapy

Tell me, what is irrealistic about these? Timelines aside.

>>6961177
Agreed. However we are entering an age of an almost feudalistic society. Fewer jobs, more people, reduced wages, lower tax base, spiralling..

What makes me think: isn't it unfair how certain consciousnesses get to experience more than others?

Like if you were born as a caveman you got to experience barely anything from the world.

If you were born in the middle ages you had to live in terrible conditions compared to now.

Some people are basically born just to experience a world of pain.

And here we are living pretty good lives. But then we may not experience the best possible life.

Maybe people in the far or near future will live forever while not having to work. We missed out on that. Why?

>>6963114
Because that's just the way it fucking is.

We'll meet again,
Don't know where,don't know when,
But I know we'll meet again, some sunny day.
Keep smiling through,
Just like you always do,
Till the blue skies drive the dark clouds, far away.
So will you please say hello,
To the folks that I know,
Tell them I won't be long, (i wont be long)
They'll be happy to know that as you saw me go
I was singing this song.

>>6961132
He just want to keep on experiencing instead of one day not being able to experience anything at all. That being said, in the end all we are is the universe itself become conscious. In a way you are everyone and everything only you experience it one at a time. Death is just another part of existence. Without death life would be meaningless like how the yang would be meaningless without the ying. We cannot help fear that which we know nothing about but rationally there should be nothing to be feared about death itself.

You do not fear death when you don't have a life

>>6960914
Easy.
I'm going to live forever.

>>6960914
denial, depression, dread, foreboding, anger.. denial..

>>6960931
that is an assumption without basis in evidence

>>6963194
Agreed.

Hell we are on a board dedicated to making sense out of life - something we still don't fully understand

>>6961086
>I want to discover what it means to be truly human

>Impossible, inherently subjective

He's expressing his desire to learn, not stating that he intends to literally acquire all knowledge on the subject of being human

>>6963214
I suppose you're right, it's just my assumption based on the circumstances of death (brain death) and what that entails

>>6963159
Ah yes, the ending theme to Dr. Strangelove. How could I ever forget that?

>>6963420
What do you do with all the people whov'e been clinically brain dead in a hospital being monitored so that state is certain yet revive reporting having experienced existence and some interaction often with spiritual beings like Jesus ? Got a view on such instances?

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/german-scientists-prove-there-is-life-after-death/

>>6963234
Shouldn't every color mixed together me black?

>>6963900

That man is clearly challenged why are you even questioning this image.

>>6963234

Shouldn't every color mixed together be black?

>>6963903
Sorry I typed 'be' incorrectly.

And ok, sorry...

>>6963897
While very interesting the presence of drugs at all is a HUGE limitation

>>6963897
Brain death is the complete and irreversible loss of brain function (including involuntary activity necessary to sustain life).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death
So no, they weren't actually brain dead.

>>6963917
then how did they have a conscience?

>>6963920
If the process was reversible then they weren't dead

>>6961136
>They'll be able to copy the brain
You will not live forever. A copy of your consciousness will, but you will drift into non-existence anyways.

>>6964070
> implying there's a difference between them

This thread affirms my assumption that scientists cant into philosophy.

focus on living long enough and making enough money to take advantage of all the life extending stuff that will become commonplace by the 2050s or so

immortality would be horrible, but living for a few tens of millions of years and touring the universe? that'd be real nice

>and then voluntarily shutting down while watching a sunrise on some alien planet

>>6964104
>but living for a few tens of millions of years and touring the universe

How do you harness the resources to feed an exponentially growing population that doesn't ever die?

>>6961003

But not existing scares people.

>>6964109
robots
lots and lots of fucking robots
and getting real creative with recycling

>>6964073
> implying there's a difference between them
at least not at first. but it takes an instant for the original and the copy to diverge, becoming two completely different entities

>>6960914
Why am I working on physics. I should be working in a biological field trying to make humans live for ever. That should be priority #1 and then I can go on to do my physics after I'm assured that my time here will be long enough to face these challenges. God it's never going to happen. I'll just become immortal by pushing humanities understanding of reality to the next level. We're all going to die =/. I've told myself over and over again that my life's purpose is to help humanity but what's the point. Even if I do something great you fucking apes will just go and ruin it all. Stupid fucking monkeys. sometimes I just wish we'd pull the trigger already. get over with it. we have the means to destroy this race. it's inevitable. Fucking conflict of interest. make weapons to survive ourselves. Fuck. When will our species pull it's head out of its ass a realize how great we can be. we're nothing but warring tribes. and I doubt it will ever change. god damnit fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. FUCK. this is your only fucking life you faggots.
when you die you will become nothing. we can live forever with technology. Our species has conquered such great challenges. Death is just another obstacle.
but how can we conquer our ape tendencies. this is the ultimate obstacle. stupid fucking monkeys

>>6964167
Silly anon. Apes aren't monkeys.

>>6960914
This is an age where we're close to reverse aging and immortality, so just be hopeful and support scientific research and development.

>>6964173
indeed :P just being angry is all. apes, monkeys same shit, both eat and fuck and shit so basically the same thing. we just feel like we're special cuz our thoughts are more "profound"

>>6964112
But how do you possibly grow enough food to feed trillions of people? How do you power their homes? How do you give them food shelter and water?

>>6964176
> :p
kill yourself

>>6964180
the farm belt, just that one section of the united states, can easily feed the entire planet right now, if it needed to.

also i was assuming some post singularity stuff, non-organic

>>6964167
Didn't you hear? God is dead and man is something to be overcome.
:)