/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15317521
you get to pet them a lot. You get used to it by making their very inevitable death as painless as you can. They wont live that long anyway.

projecting your own human emotions onto every living thing is a low iq trait and a tipoff certain mentally ill tendencies, you were supposed to have learned the difference between people and lesser creatures when you were 6 years old or so.
if you take your craziness even further and inflict dietary restrictions on yourself, such as vegetarianism, in order to save the precious animals, then your mental illness can cause you physical harm.

>>15317550
But they're cute...
>>15317545
I felt a little guilty over my first (inadvertent) kill the other day. Going to have to kill a lot more in the future so I hope you're right anon.

>>15317556
>But they're cute...
you want to fuck animals

>>15317558
I think you should take your meds anon and stop projecting.

>>15317545
What this anon says, OP.
No way around it

>>15317556
>I felt a little guilty over my first (inadvertent) kill the other day. Going to have to kill a lot more in the future so I hope you're right anon.

>>15317521
Dealing with a cadaver the first time left me vomitting in the toilet, you get used to it. Just know it's an un fun part of making a difference. Assuming you aren't some dip shit testing hair care products on rats.

>>15317521
Watch this
https://youtu.be/ZGTq3lmwszY

>>15317692
>uploaded 20 minutes ago
fuck you anon. did you come into this thread just to taunt me?

>>15317700
What do you mean?
I subscribed to them a few weeks ago

>>15317521
>>15317556
watch this video. they're cute even in death. you can pet them after killing them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4wkzGnIXvc

>>15317521
Cute doesn't mean good. Cute can be an evil bloodthirsty animal inside, just as ugly can be kind and caring and good. Don't be a low IQ whore that falls for looks.

Also fuck you, retard.

>>15317521
You eat meat all the time. Don't mistake the empathy you gained(for it's usefulness within tribes) as some sort of universal truth.

>>15318769
Are you the same schizo who got his posts deleted?
>>15318708
>these barely sapient animals are actually evil creatures on the inside and deserve to be killed en masse

>>15317521
your thinking is right. animal experimentation is unethical, unless it's a harmless experiment that lets them live out their natural lives in a healthy, happy way. your urges are correct and you shouldn't try to override them

>>15318769
>You eat meat all the time. Don't mistake the empathy you gained(for it's usefulness within tribes) as some sort of universal truth.
yes, but the correct response to becoming aware of this contradiction is to stop eating meat and to stop supporting killing of sentient beings for no good reason. as a general rule of thumb, it's only ethical to eat meat if that meat were human meat. so if a human or a pig died of natural causes, it's okay to eat. otherwise, it isn't

>>15317521
ways to lie to yourself:
-cut off unnecesary contact with other people
-stop thinking about effects of your actions, only what is going on now
-use small dopamine boosts like eating trash food (chips pizza) to distract yourself
-work out so that your brain makes you artificially more resilient to sadness
-dont talk about the animals like living beings

i know about lying so trust me on that one ;) pic unrelated

>>15319115
No, the correct response is to realize you're a tribalist. I would never value an entity with infinite sentience(or any superior quality) over my own fellow apes. That's cuckoldry.

>>15319115
>sentient beings
do you think those dumbasses animal are sentient? they don't even know what being alive is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn22qVSfVRE

>>15319115
>killing of sentient beings
would be murder because there is only one such species on the planet (or solar system for that matter)

>>15317521
Just pretent they are people

>>15319135
>>15319139
retards

>>15317521
real scientists actually enjoy torturing animals FOR SCIENCE
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m-wZqSPM5Tc

>>15319158
Let's see a rat talk dipshit, or count on his fingers. You think they have an internal monologue but can't express it at all and just *appear* to be thoughtless?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsimony
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

Are the sentient chemical reactions in the room with you now?

>>15319183
anon......

>>15319193
>feelings and sensations
I'll believe that when I hear it lmao. The biological imperative isn't a soul, it's just a reliable way to make more of you.

>>15319196
Now you've just completely lost me.

>>15319193
a tree experiences sensations and you all eat those

>>15319201
If you can "feel" things despite not knowing what they are, I can't help you, you're too ESL.

>>15319205
you goddamn faggot, you trust those feelings to confirm that they are feelings.
We, and im speaking here for all humans, know literally fucking wide broad and tall ZERO right now about soul/consciousness/humanity besides the fact that something akin to those concepts exists and yet niggers like you, >>15319193 and >>15319201 just can't say "I don't know" no matter how many times they hit a wall.

Time will tell.

>>15319201
that is a good indicator you are nonsentient and therefore ethically edible

>>15319229
>trust
what's this mean? reminder, you can't think or make analogies, only feel.
>confirm
what's this mean? reminder, you can't think or decide consciously, only feel.

>>15317521
Conditioned psychopathy. You do it a few times and are taken in by the surrounding culture. It's a dirtying of the hands effect. You did it once, what's one more time? You've done it before. You're dirty. You're one of them.

Gradually it disappears.

>>15319262
if i do not feel you then you do not exist because i cannot decide that consciously, therefore fuck off ya cunt before i take ya pants

>>15319304
I didn't mean "you" literally, I meant a rat or whatever that this anon >>15319158 agrees "sentient" means on its own. He seems to be saying thats enough. I don't care if a rat or yeast or feral child can "decide if I exist" though, and no, I'm pretty sure they can't anyway.

ummm iunno what faggot shit you guys are going on about, the mouse is cute therefore i pet it

>>15317521
>waaaaa muh cute animals
>what? do something decent for another human being of my own kind? why should i have to do that?
"i love animals" is always a tipoff of misanthropy & narcissism

How the fuck did you manage to turn this discussion into such a clown fiesta?

>>15317521
animal experimentation is unethical, simple as. biofags have no souls<div class="xa23b"><span class="xa23t"></span><span class="xa23i"></span></div>

>>15319359
>What is not always appreciated is the extraordinary impact that laboratory mice and rats have on biomedical research. They are often the preferred animal model for studies of human disease and the standard species of choice for pre-clinical trials.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987984/

>>15319367
i am aware of the official biofag stance on animal testing. it doesn't change the fact that it is unethical

> No one knows where we are going, the aim of life has been forgotten, the end has been left behind. Man has set out at tremendous speed- to go nowhere.

>>15319381
Who dictates the ethics? God?

>>15319381
>>15319390
>Ethics (from the Ancient Greek "ethikos", meaning "arising from habit"; also Morality)
Which is why legally the biological community has the institutions that strictly enforce their moral guidelines along themselves.
It is the mos maiorum

>>15319390
all life is sacred and when a civilization uses living beings for instrumental ends (like the Nazis did in WW2) then that civilization deserves whatever calamity befalls it.

i'm not religious so i don't know what the bible teaches but i know that the way biologists treat living beings as if they were instruments to be used and abused for advancing knowledge is not ethical. because it is only a hop and skip from animal farming and testing to population level control and genetic engineering of human stock because we are no different from any other animal. the building blocks are all the same and i'd rather not live in a civilization that treats people as instruments.

>>15319381
>the aim of life has been forgotten, the end has been left behind
I would content the ultimate aim of life has always been 'nothing,' in the ethical sense. The values of a species, the entire ecosystem, began and continue to be purely selfserving. And in fact Man's consideration of other values at all, rather than selfish survivalist and reproductive-savvy responses, has given our species and the billions we benefit from a far more important purpose, which simply did not exist before sapience and language.

>>15319410
that is yet to be determined. by most measures humanity is on track for self-inflicted extinction

>>15319412
I don't disagree, but that was true in the Archaean as well. Certainly the world's holobiont have improved since, both overall and for most individuals. The biological imperative is not perfect, but without it we would have no ethics at all, only equilibrium reactions. If the human race extincts itself, it will mean our original design was simply too flawed and it is time for Earth to try something better.

>>15319404
From what exactly do you draw this knowledge of the sacredness of all life. I can just as easily day thst life is an abomination in the vast and beautiful abiotic universe.

That is not what I believe though.
My views are somewhat similar to yours but inverted. As you believe that all life is sacred, it is possible to derive that all life is equally precious.
So that is what I believe. All life is equally precious.
And the value of that preciousness is just above zero.

>>15319416
i don't subscribe to the mechanical view of life. it's convenient for biologists but it is only an approximation and easily justifies atrocities like animal testing. after all, if it's all just chemical reactions then who cares how you torture the mouse in the cage for your report.

>>15319419
just a conclusion from personal meditation

>>15319443
I am saying the opposite though. Chemical reactions may be purely mechanical and unfeeling, but life is not. The goals on and of Earth are becoming less mechanical and selfish, not more. Earlier and simpler life eat, cripple, torture each other far more naturally than we do.

>>15319445
I see. Well we are both equally right from the scientific perspective. That is, we have no way to prove or disprove empirically
I understand your position and sometimes act as if it were true.
But not always, it can become cumbersome and nonproductive<div class="xa23b"><span class="xa23t"></span><span class="xa23i"></span></div>

>>15319448
the distinctions you're drawing don't exist. they're an artifact of symbolic approximations

>>15319451
They need not be binary distinctions at all. As we become more complex, Earth is becoming more ethical. Our values are less selfish and selfdestructive, not more.

>>15319451
>>15319465
What is this species in your picrel, by the way, it's very very interesting.

>>15319465
i am doubtful because that has not been my experience. humanity is the cause of the 6th mass extinction and there is still no coherent plant on how to address the loss in biodiversity.

biofags are still mutilating animals in cages instead of doing fieldwork and collecting samples to put in a DNA vault.

>>15319467
don't know. it's just pictures i collected from pinterest boards

>>15319472
Are you a woman?

>>15319470
most animals are ecological, humans are not, humans are cancerous.

>>15319473
i'm anonymous

>>15319474
I don't know where this delusion comes from.

>>15319477
Your philosophy and website usage indicate either female gender or an effete member of the male gender.

>>15319478
has there been any other mammal in the geological record as invasive and destructive as the human species?

>>15319483
Where did you come to hold this delusional philosophy? Was it taught to you by one of the cult leaders at your university, or did you formulate it yourself during an episode of schizophrenia?

>>15319480
lol, lmao even

>>15319487
Accurate results again it seems.

>>15319486
lol, lmao even

>>15319470
Life become more resilient, cooperative, and ultimately value-rich with each extinction. Zero organizisms cooperated in the Archean. The plant cell and photosynthesis was then a truly cooperative, symbiotic, and beneficial imperative which simply never existed before their evolution. Further difficulties and rebounds have continued to reduce pain on earth and the devaluation of life. If humans fail and are replaced by dolphins or ant colonies or AI, because they develop more resilient and selfless values, it would be to life's benefit as well. Once rebounded, we would again be left as a more ethical planet and ecosystem.

>>15319483
>i'm such a saint, i hate all of humanity
kill yourself if you hate humans, none of us want you or your mental illness around anyway, you're a burden on the rest of us. goodbye

>>15319489
indeed, you should become a detective instead of mutilating animals in cages

>>15319493
notice that i never mentioned hate. if you see hate then reflect and ponder why

>>15319492
science fiction fantasies

>>15319498
People with real intelligence can easily intuit your emotions and manic state of mind from the words you use.

>>15319503
such incredible intuition. do you suppose i couldn't hide my trail if i wished. i make myself legible by choice

>>15319506
Well at least you concede that you're hateful and mentally ill. Will you do anything to improve your situation now that we've passed that first hurdle, or will you continue to hold delusions about humanity and nature?

>>15319492
Here are some more examples I like to think about. Consensual sex evolved as a rebound/alternative to what was previously, literally gene injection with a spike, which killed the penisless species/cells and Cuckoo'd the others. Mitochondria began as parasites, often killing host cells, and evolved into absolute symbiotes. Cholesterol evolved as a noncombative nondamaging economic system, for cells to become specialized symbiotically instead of purely at war. None of these alternatives to savagery existed before.

>>15319512
do you suppose you're making progress here by constantly deflecting your own fears onto me. this is a common pattern with most people so you're not really special in that regard but what outcome do you suppose you'll achieve by telling me i am mentally ill and hateful?<div class="xa23b"><span class="xa23t"></span><span class="xa23i"></span></div>

>>15319517
I'm not telling you anything, anymore. You admitted it yourself.

>>15319483
>i'm soooo superior !!
>everyone else is evil
pure narcissism

>>15319515
all very good examples, but doesn't address the fundamental issue brought up initially in the thread of animal testing and its ethics

opossum!

>>15319526
All I can say is, it makes us more complex, both individually and overall. More complex life is, so far, capable of greater ethics. Our blood and skin cells are not treated ethically by our neurons, and I would say the treatment of mice by humans is still an improvement over the raw metal of dna replication and natural selection.

>>15319536
>>15319526
perhaps we are working together as best we can while the biological imperative is perpetually weighing on us. I don't know. It seems hard to conclude fruit or dogs or wheat would be here otherwise, that we would have distinct species at all, instead of a tiny band of whatever is at the top of the pure-selfish-reproductive pyramid.

>>15319390
virtue signaling desires, dopamine levels & mental illness

There is no justification. Animal testing is inefficient, and the animals bred for it cannot be considered unbiased in trials due to their longer than normal telomeres skewing any data they report.

Even if you remove all ethics from it, it's a dying practice held up solely by corporatization and lobbyists completely ignoring the wealth of low-hanging fruit in genomics that renders this archaic and slow process more redundant than it already is.

These results rarely get integrated into future research, barely show anything that isn't already known, doesn't contribute to downstream human trials and is a complete vestigial part of medicine. It's your one way ticket to your only accomplishments being present at the end of a 40-person document about some irrelevant drug pathway that will never get used.

You didn't join this field to waste away in a frankly nearly useless subdivision.

>>15321890
I have no idea what you're going on about. What if I need animals for behavior tests?

>>15322350
For example, what behavior are you testing that is not better in the wild. Laboratories are unnatural environments and yield unnatural results.

Rats are roaming animals, same with mice. Keeping them in cages is a cruel practice.

>>15322399
What if I need to test something really specific and over and over for hundreds of trials and control for individual differences? Do you expect me to stalk the same mouse innawoods like a bushcrawler and hope it doesn't get eaten or that I don't lose track of it?

>>15317521
it looks disgusting makes me wanna kill it in the most horrible ways imaginable like turning it inside out and scraping its inside organs out in unimaginable painful ways that the mouse screams

>>15318708
Low IQ subhuman. Lel.

>>15322629
Immoral monster

>>15319528
>>15322530
they're very cute and I enjoy watching them getting abused
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2f6yorgr4o

>>15322530
just proving my point about the futility of behavioral studies in the lab

>>15317521
Don't experiment on them and use an AI to simulate their biology and alterations. Then make your pets immortal. :3

>"To rejuvenate and heal most any illness. Combine the capabilities of a Turritopsis Dohrnii Jellyfish and any Moth or Butterfly. The butterfly has the blueprint for how to transfer memory between biological states, and the jellyfish has the mechanism that can restore your bodies youth."