/sci/ - Science & Math

Lloyd's first habitat, Biosub 1. First to rely primarily on plants (algae) for life support.

Lloyd's second habitat, Biosub 2, breaking the record for amount of power generated by a human being underwater.

STOP POSTING THIS STUPID FUCKING SPAM, JEWBOY!

SEAFAGGOTS ARE FAGGOTS!

inb4 careless pressure equalizing action that kills everyone

Lloyd's second habitat, Biosub 2, breaking the record for amount of power generated by a human being underwater. He managed to make 2.5 kilowatts, keeping his small laptop and the lights going.

The lack of direct sunlight would drive me insane. It's bad enough that I live in Scandinavia during the winter months.

What happened to the original thread? I saw it had been bumped back to first page and then 404?

Also: voted.

>>4060865

Every time you ruin this thread, I will delete and repost it.

>>4060869
>What happened to the original thread?

Violent Simians ruined it, so I deleted and reposted. See: >>4060871

>>4060868
Finfag here, I love the winter.
>When Chekhov saw the long winter, he saw a winter bleak and dark and bereft of hope. Yet we know that winter is just another step in the cycle of life. But standing here among the people of Punxsutawney and basking in the warmth of their hearths and hearts, I couldn't imagine a better fate than a long and lustrous winter.
What I'm saying is, different strokes for different folks.

>>4060887
>What I'm saying is, different strokes for different folks.

Bingo. For some of us, this type of sunlight is prettiest.

>>4060876
>Violent Simians ruined it
Kinda redundant there.
>Violent Simians
would have saved you a couple keystrokes.

>>4060871

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. Somebody should stick you into the cold ocean in a metal can and leave you.

OH WAIT, THAT'S TOO EXPENSIVE FOR ANYONE TO BOTHER WITH.

Why is it that /sci/borgs CAN'T DO ECONOMICS?

>>4060894
>OH WAIT, THAT'S TOO EXPENSIVE FOR ANYONE TO BOTHER WITH.

Actually, a group of students did exactly that for $10,000 in the 1980s. It was called SubLimnos. It rested on the bottom of a lake that was frozen over, heat was supplied electrically and hot water could be piped out to circulate through little veins in the skin of their dive suits. It was the first habitat to make it possible to study the freshwater marine ecosystem during winter.

>>4060852

>>4060899
>Actually, a group of students did exactly that for $10,000 in the 1980s
You didn't account for inflation.

>>4060899

Okay, so what would it be in today's dollars? Probably still roughly the price of a shitty car, right?

>>4060911
Yes, it's about the same price as an EV made from a junk car.

>>4060894
Why are you so against the idea of living under the sea?
I think it's an amazing concept. I wish to try living underwater someday.

Looks like that's $26,111, accounting for inflation. That's less than a new Honda CRV.

Think about that. What did the ISS cost? And we can establish a base underwater, albeit a modest one, for the price of a new car. How is that uneconomical? If a middle class individual can afford this car, he or she can afford to live underwater. You can't say the same for space.

>>4060920
Living undersea is expensive, restrictive, tedious, and boring.

sealab 2020 thread.

>>4060899

For $10K you can get a 1500sq house in the Midwest that you don't ever have to worry about one leak TOTALLY DESTROYING.

SEAFAGGOTS ARE FAGGOTS. They never understood economics. They don't WANT to understand economics. They WANT other SEAFAGGOTS and other dupes to blow through tons of cash to provide them with some place that's BELOW THEIR USUAL ABODE OF A BASEMENT.

The Cheetos shipping costs will BREAK YOU. Good luck.

>>4060926
Ah I see, so you've lived underwater then? What was it like?

>>4060923
What about insurance, maintenance costs, and general cost of living?

>>4060920
He doesn't want people to like what he doesn't like.
He probably thinks Jacques Cousteau was an idiot.
>An homage was paid to him by the city by the inauguration of a "rue du Commandant Cousteau", a street which runs out to his native house, where a commemorative plaque was affixed.

>>4060932
>can't into common sense

>>4060926

I keep telling the SEAFAGGOTS that, but they are FAGGOTS and neither know economics nor want to know economics. Using lots of metal is EXPENSIVE. And that's all you're making use of with underwater habitats.

Underwater living ONLY makes sense for oil drilling and the like. But 99.999% of Humanity will NEVER EVER make use of it. 99.999% are too poor for such expensive living and can't afford in addition to withstand the TOTAL LOSS imposed by accidents, which probably includes LOSS OF LIFE.

Even FIRES on land aren't that severe, since you often have WARNING and then have A WAY TO FUCKING GET AWAY FROM THE FIRE. None of that applies for living TOTALLY UNDERWATER.

>>4060934
>What about insurance, maintenance costs, and general cost of living?

I don't know the first two, but rent is expected to be around $1097 a month. There's very little in the way of ongoing expenses since power will be coming from a giant turbine in the gulf stream, seen here.

>For $10K you can get a 1500sq house in the Midwest that you don't ever have to worry about one leak TOTALLY DESTROYING.

What house costs $10,000? Here, a new house starts at around $250,000. A single residential module on the civilian colony will cost $150-200k. It's very comparable.

>>4060939
I was asking a legitimate question.

How did this become about living underwater? It was supposed to be about Lloyd's project, and raising support for it! ._.

>>4060940
Like MAD said earlier, why is living underwater so much worse than space?

>>4060928

Or better yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRrQSGD2e14

>>4060936
> He probably thinks Jacques Cousteau was an idiot.

Where did Jacques Cousteau live? I BETCHA HE LIVED IN A DRY-LAND HOUSE FOR 99.999% OF HIS LIFE.

>>4060943
>giant turbine in the gulf stream
They've actually built one?

The last time I read about those was in the late 90's and it was still in the realm of science fiction. Near future, but scifi anyway.

I love coming to /sci/ and hearing that yet another exciting technology or discovery has seen the light of day.

Mad Scientist, why are you fixated so much on building underwater houses? It's murky and dark down there and there are many engineering problems, and what's the payoff? Why do it?

>>4060946
> How did this become about living underwater?

That's all you SEAFAGGOTS are aiming for. It's ridiculous and stupid.

>>4060955

Yes, they've built one. The decision to locate the colony there owes mainly to that turbine, since it's the best method available for generating power onsite and it will create maintinence and inspection jobs for some of the colonists.

>>4060944
Costs can be calculated and the conditions can be deduced. Underwater, mobility of people while diving well definitely be slower than on land. The tediousness comes from having to put on and off the swim gear when having to travel from place to place. The novelty of the sea wears off once you get use to living undersea, and knowing the native fauna and flora of the area.

>>4060956
> Mad Scientist, why are you fixated so much on building underwater houses? It's murky and dark down there and there are many engineering problems, and what's the payoff? Why do it?

Because he's fucking insane. We live on land since we're LAND ANIMALS. Seafaggots refuse to acknowledge that truth. Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE FAGGOTS.

>>4060956
>t's murky and dark down there and there are many engineering problems, and what's the payoff? Why do it?

>murky
>dark
>why do it

People who say this have never been diving in the tropics.

>>4060957
Man, you are so butthurt. Take whatever meds you're on, listen to some happy music, and calm down.

in my head a submarine is making much more sense than any fixed structure.

>>4060965
Holy shit that's beautiful.

>>4060965
But there won't be filtered sunlight the whole day.

>>4060978
You mean it will get dark when the sun goes down?

>>4060948

Space and undersea are related but different. Both those environments have their own differing climates (LEO/deep space and tidal/benthic/surface) with differing temperatures, available energy and other properties. One nice thing about space is the consistent zero pressure. Nice thing about the ocean is water/nutrients. Both have practically unlimited energy if done right.

>>4060979
It'll get dark much earlier undersea than on land.

>>4060982
>Both have practically unlimited energy if done right.

This is true. However in the ocean if you have unlimited energy, you have unlimited everything else; You can use electricity not just for heat and light, but also for splitting oxygen and hydrogen out of sea water, and recombining some of it for fresh drinking water. From electricity and the surrounding medium you get air, fuel and drinking water. That's a hard proposition to beat.

>>4060982
>Nice thing about the ocean is water/nutrients.
There's also pollution like sewage, mercury, and other harsh chemicals. Most recently, it's radioactive waste from Japan.

>>4060989
>2011
>not understanding radiation

>>4060989
>There's also pollution like sewage, mercury, and other harsh chemicals. Most recently, it's radioactive waste from Japan.
If the concentrations were in prohibitive levels, there wouldn't be much life in the seas.

Also, regarding the hassle of putting your gear on; That would be for tourists. Permanent residents would abandon that practice pretty quickly. If you're acclimated to the environment there's not much need for a wetsuit, harness and so on, you can throw an air cylinder on your back, put the regulator in your mouth and go.

Alternatively, with vehicles like this one you could simply dive out with a small short duration use mini air cylinder like a Spare Air, duck your head inside the air filled bubble, and drive.

It's less restrictive than living on land because you have full 3 dimensional mobility. You're not locked inside the habitat anymore than you're locked inside your home. You have the whole sea floor around the habitat to explore, with the kind of natural beauty rarely found on land anymore.

>>4060965

So... go diving? You still haven't explained why a fixed structure is anywhere near as good as a simple scuba kit. In fact it seems worse - with a fixed structure you can only peer out the window, with diving gear you can actually look around.

>>4061003
I like it.

>>4061000
But the pollution accumulates in the bodies of undersea animals and plants over time. For example, adult tuna has high levels of mercury and the FDA recommends pregnant women to not consume tuna. Long term undersea exposure may not be safe.

>>4061004

>You still haven't explained why a fixed structure is anywhere near as good as a simple scuba kit.

This is the first time you've asked, to my knowledge.

>with a fixed structure you can only peer out the window, with diving gear you can actually look around.

It isn't either/or. I don't know how I gave you that impression but I apologize. You need both; The structure as someplace to eat, sleep, use the computer, the bathroom/shower and so on and the diving gear to leave the structure and explore.

That seems obvious to me, though. Why would you ever have imagined it was either/or? People ask the strangest questions on this topic.

>>4061003
That doesn't look safe. Don't they worry about sharks, sea snakes, jelly fish, parasites, poisonous fishes, and other dangerous animals?

>>4061007

What I'm getting at is, what does the fixed structure offer? Why not just dive from a boat. You can so your indoor things above water. I'm just not seeing what the benefit is of a house underwater. It's just a very difficult and challenging way of living indoors.

Every colonist would have something like this hung from a lanyard around their neck. It provides about 25 full, deep breaths of air and refills from empty in under a minute. With this you could easily make short treks between habitats, between the moon pool/airlock and your vehicle, and so on. There's also a 3.0cf version that supplies about 55 breaths.

>>4061017
But that won't help against medical problems like heart attacks and sudden cramps. People would always have to travel in pairs to be safe.

>>4061006
Tuna gets the high levels due to being a predator.
In the concentrations regularly encountered, the pollutants probably won't be a huge risk.
I doubt the people settingup undersea colonies would choose a highly polluted area as a site, unless the job has something to do with the pollution, in which case drysuits can be worn.

>>4061013
>What I'm getting at is, what does the fixed structure offer?

A home.

>Why not just dive from a boat.

A boat is on the water, not under it.

>You can so your indoor things above water.

Storms.

>I'm just not seeing what the benefit is of a house underwater. It's just a very difficult and challenging way of living indoors.

It isn't difficult or challenging if you understand the principles involved and design around them. We're not helpless, incompetent animals; we are capable of understanding the constraints of living in a given environment and designing a living space for it. After that point, the difficulty is gone. The structure is completed and functional. What's there to complain or worry about? The challenge is not ongoing, it's one time.

And anyway if you don't want to, then don't. Nobody's twisting your arm. Some of us want to go, we have the funding to do it, so we're going no matter what.

Notice how these men don't seem to be experiencing any of that challenge or difficulty you mentioned. They're at ease, living as effortlessly as on land, because the challenge was in the one-time design of the structure, as with any other machine. We use machines daily designed to make challenging, difficult things simple and convenient for us. It's not a meaningful objection to the proposition of living underwater.

It never fails, every fuckin' thread;

>It's impossible, underwater is pitch black and 9,000 psi everywhere in the ocean at every depth!
>It's harder than building a house on land and therefore impossible!
>We should not attempt hard things!

Shit like this is why we don't have a base on Mars.

>>4061043

>mfw people actually think this and it's why we will never again do anything great

These threads always boil down to

>BECAUSE IT'S COOL

Well, I guess if you think it's cool, then good luck to you. I personally don't think living underwater is anywhere near as cool as living on mars, but if you like it, then fine.

>>4061035
Windows look too bright. Are they above water or in very shallow water?

>>4061049
The golden age is beyond it's peak.

We begin the decline.

>fellow seabro
do you like worship marine biology or some shit? what the hell is so special about it?

>>4061049
>>4061043
It's people like you who do crazy things like climbing the Himalayas and end up dead. Even if the venture was successful, they haven't achieved anything meaningful.

>>4061051

No, I agree. What you're not getting is, that's a valid reason to go and live somewhere. It's the #1. reason people go and live somewhere. Desire DOES factor in, heavily. People with a burning desire to live in the mountains go and do it. People who crave living in Hawaii go and make it happen. Suburbs exist despite being hugely wasteful and impractical precisely because people had a strong desire to live the same way they did back in the country but with access to a city close by.

We are not a race of dull, emotionless robots who only do things out of practical necessity and I don't understand how people can go around with that assumption for so long without looking around them at all the shit we build purely for enjoyment and realizing their misconception.

>>4061055
I think for them it's a way to escape the harsh reality of general society. By living somewhere unique, they have less competition.

Looks like I am small time :D

This is awesome, best of luck to him.

>>4061055

Do you worship space or some shit? It's a mirror image to the culture of obsession around space exploration. I want to make oceanic exploration just as popular, because it deserves to be.

There's a lot of cool shit in space but we cannot, even conceivably, reach 99.9999% of it. What we can reach is relatively dull. We can now reach every part of the ocean but most remains unexplored. It's not like the moon or Mars, it's colorful and packed with exotic organisms waiting to be discovered. There are real adventures to be had here. Sad because you were born too late to explore the world? Don't be, the most exciting parts of it aren't yet explored, and it's a region open to ordinary people.

It has cool vessels, armored suits, pressurized bases, every staple of scifi that makes space cool, but in an environment with actual undiscovered life, genuine danger from predators, and aspects of exploration (like the increasing pressure and darkness with depth) that make it as much of a challenge or moreso to access its furthest reaches.

>>4061073
so, like some sort of 'sea' cult?

>>4061063
>Suburbs exist despite being hugely wasteful and impractical precisely because people had a strong desire to live the same way they did back in the country but with access to a city close by.
You're ignoring the fact that people also don't want to live near the common, boorish folk. Suburbs usually have better, more polite neighbors and less crime. The main attraction is they offer higher living standards and not some stupid unique way of living.

>>4061073

It's always seemed to me that obsession with space exploration is a symptom of asperger's syndrome. It's a rich fantasy world where any of their imaginary friends might live and they can imagine blue alien cat women who don't find them repulsive the way human women do. I mean really, ray guns? Rocketships? Are these people mental children?

>>4061082
What does it take to join an expedition? I suppose it would require college, money, or both so I'm most likely out.

>>4061086
You're ignoring the fact he didn't ignore that- living in the country entails more than having a slightly larger perfectly flat lawn, there's the social aspect as well.

>>4061086
>You're ignoring the fact that people also don't want to live near the common, boorish folk. Suburbs usually have better, more polite neighbors and less crime. The main attraction is they offer higher living standards and not some stupid unique way of living.


That's true, but it wasn't when they were built. It didn't factor into their appeal, originally. It is exactly as I said, they were built because people moving from the country wanted to preserve that way of life but be able to work in the city.

>>4061083
>sea cult
Since their only rational explanation to live undersea is simply a desire to do so, they can be classified as that.

>>4061093

If you can devise a worthwhile experiment to perform at depth, Scott Cassel of the Undersea Voyager Project will take you down there in a fully transparent spherical canopy submersible free of charge.

They have several subs to choose from, and because they are a nonprofit and subsist on donations, they can take members of the general public without charging.

http://www.underseavoyagerproject.org/

>>4061096
awesome, thank you

>>4061102

I believe you might have quoted the wrong post there broski

>>4061096
That isn't true, mad sci's going to give a better explanation in a moment probably, but there's all kinds of useful research implications to not needing to decompress every time you dive, or to being able to stay underwater for months at a time.

>>4061105
no, i said thank you for logically explaining this unique form of 'sea-worship' in a coherent manner

>>4061101
>If you can devise a worthwhile experiment to perform at depth

What does this mean, exactly? I have to say though, I'd feel like a freeloading asshole if me going contributed absolutely nothing except sucking up space for a more valuable person.

I have discovered the real reason these people want to live underwater.

Neutrally buoyant boobies.

http://www.aquawomen.com/home.php

>>4061115
wat.

>>4061119
I don't know. I mean, boobs aren't even neutrally buoyant, they're less dense than water.

>>4061107
>That isn't true, mad sci's going to give a better explanation in a moment probably, but there's all kinds of useful research implications to not needing to decompress every time you dive, or to being able to stay underwater for months at a time.

Well yes that's true, but the thing is, there are lots of things like this that make it extremely useful to have an underwater base...

But none of them, by itself, justifies the cost. Only all of them taken together do, but unless you have a business that does all of those things, you're probably not in the market for an undersea habitat.

We have Aquarius because of the reason you mentioned; Long term saturation diving for the prolonged study of reef ecosystems. You need to be able to monitor the whole reef daily over many years to gather the necessary data and the only way to do that, save for paying the salaries of everyone aboard a fully crewed surface support vessel, is to put people underwater.

However, in order to leverage all of the other benefits of having subsea colonies, they need to already exist. It's a chicken and egg problem. IF a group of likeminded people come together and make it happen, THEN they can support themselves and further colonies with the various industrial and agricultural work they can do more efficiently with people living onsite. But you need someone to build the first colony to get that started, which is what the Atlantica Expeditions is about.

>>4061115
clearly this isn't a cult, rather a fetish or a sexual tendency that Mad Scientist and the like have

trust me, i'm a psychology undergrad

>>4061101
It's disappointing that those scientists working there can't think up of worthwhile experiments to do on their own.

>>4061121

Still, it has a certain appeal. I saw this silly softcore exploitation film from the 70s called "Mermaids of Tiburon Bay". it was an hour and a half of topless women swimming underwater, rising slowly out of water and so on. Women just look great in water, for some reason.

>>4061135
It's because they already look attractive and are naked.

Water doesn't really have anything to do with it.

>>4061124
>But none of them, by itself, justifies the cost.

That's just, like, your opinion. I'd argue that the cost is easily justified, as would any sufficiently eccentric marine biologist.
>>4061135
I wouldn't know, I'm a candy-ass.

>>4061134

They do. Scott studies Humboldt squid. He did an absolutely amazing (if somewhat frightening) google talk about how the squids attempt to kill human divers that study them, and how he devised armor and techniques to protect himself and gather data.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4iDQsXIi3I

But there's not that many of them, and in order to fund the upkeep of the subs they need donations, and in order to earn those donations they need to provide a service to the public that convinces philanthropic types to donate to them. Hence, the Undersea Voyager Project.

>>4061134

That's because there isn't all that much to experiment with underwater. You can test engineering, or you can poke around looking for new kinds of squid. "Experiments" don't really make sense, a bit like how they tried to justify the ISS as some sort of place to do science without ever figuring out what they would do.

>>4061138

Watch this and get back to me.

In addition to performing underwater experiments, an undersea base would also be useful in confirming whether or not mermaids exist.

>>4061157
Did you not see the little mermaid? Of course they do, asshole.

>>4061148

>That's because there isn't all that much to experiment with underwater. You can test engineering, or you can poke around looking for new kinds of squid. "Experiments" don't really make sense, a bit like how they tried to justify the ISS as some sort of place to do science without ever figuring out what they would do.

Look at the photo. It's from an experiment in biorock accretion. Basically it was discovered by fluke that if you electrify a metal structure it causes a battery like reaction with surrounding water and minerals from the water accrete onto the surface of the metal in the exact same manner and composition of coral. What this means is, you can build a coral 'skeleton' from aluminum, 'seed' it with coral bits and plants, then electrify it and over a few years grow a new coral reef.

The sea is not space. It's full of stuff. Minerals, organic compounds, etc. and there's a lot of cool shit you can do with that. Like rocket powered supercavitating subs that use seawater as half of the reaction in order to prolong the burn time. Really, really cool shit.

>Mad makes thread about interesting educational science aqua base thing
>Soon, the thread is about topless mermaids
>mfw

>>4061161
So they rediscovered electrodeposition, wow.

>>4061176
>in the exact same manner and composition of coral

>>4061186
>coral 'skeleton' from aluminum
A wire mesh cylinder doesn't look natural, dude.

>>4061195
>>>in the exact same manner and composition of coral

>>4061186

As in, other coral will grow together with it, coral plants will grow on/in it. It's interchangeable with coral.

The significance is that we now have a method to artificially restore reefs. And that came from performing biorock accretion experiments underwater.

Like it or not it's a valid counterexample to your earlier claim that undersea bases are analogous to the ISS and can do no useful science. The ocean floor isn't LEO, there's actual shit to study here.

I still don't understand why everyone is so against living under the ocean.

I thought /sci/ liked science and exploring the unknown, or is it like /v/ and their "love" for videogames?

>>4061208

The sea is like the poor man's version of space. It's like when you get carob eggs for easter instead of chocolate.

>>4061197
>accidental discoveries

But it doesn't change that fact there weren't any clear goals to begin with. The scientists are more interested in the undersea base itself than scientific discoveries. This proven by the fact they're too lazy to come up with their own experiments.

>>4061208

Because it's retarded!

This isn't about exploration or gaining knowledge. It's because you think it's cool and retro-fi to live in a base under the water, and you have vague ideas that there will be all sorts of "adventures" to be had.

>>4061208
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know

>>4061217
>But it doesn't change that fact there weren't any clear goals to begin with.

But there was, testing sacrificial zinc anodes. That's how science always is, the important discoveries aren't the ones we set out to make, they're accidental discoveries made while pursuing something else.

>The scientists are more interested in the undersea base itself than scientific discoveries. This proven by the fact they're too lazy to come up with their own experiments.

The scientists you're referring to don't have an undersea base. You're confused. That's Aquarius. The guys I'm walking about operate a small fleet of science subs, and do research on Humboldt squids.

>>4061223
Once we have an undersea base it will be put to use.
Do you really think it would have no use other than to "look cool"?

>>4061223
>This isn't about exploration or gaining knowledge. It's because you think it's cool and retro-fi to live in a base under the water, and you have vague ideas that there will be all sorts of "adventures" to be had.

Why can't it be about both? Logically, what prevents that? There can absolutely be a valid rationale for the existence of underwater research stations (and in fact there is, or the Aquarius wouldn't exist) and AT THE SAME TIME I can think it's really cool.

It really seems like you're frustrated that I'm happy. Should the world be a joyless, utilitarian hellscape of grey concrete and emotionless drones? Can't people revel in the coolness of certain scientific endeavors, or do you forbid that?

Pic related; scientifically useful AND cool.

>>4061237

Easy tiger, I'm just a bit unnerved by the intensity of your sea-fetish. That's cool though, you can have your seabases if you want.

>>4061223

Let's say some people do end up living under water, and make threads about how awesome it is to live there. Would you still be trying to convince them that it's a bad idea and that they should get out?

>>4061254
>Easy tiger, I'm just a bit unnerved by the intensity of your sea-fetish. That's cool though, you can have your seabases if you want.

See, and I look at space people the same way. The ships and suits and bases are cool, but there's nowhere cool to use them.

Pic related, scientifically valuable, but boring.

>>4061263

Not the same guy, but that actually is pretty cool to me. Air pressure would be low, but you could get away with a less bulky suit than you would on the moon. There's plenty of iron oxide available right at the surface, and not much oxygen in the air to rust it. Not sure, but Martian Motocross could be pretty awesome. Making odd stone sculptures and zen gardens out in the middle of nowhere would be fun. Rolling in sand is nice. Very meditative.

Also, on Titan, humans would be able to fly under their own power and you'd be able to essentially use algae to fuel a flamethrower because the air is made of methane. You could basically be some kind of dragon-man.

>>4061333

Oh, also: I very much like the project you linked too, but I'm hesitant to spend money on anything before getting a job. I really do need to work on that.

>>4061333

I can understand that appeal, but at the same time, what is there to do? It's a red, cold desert. There is no life. There might be microbial fossils but that's it.

The seafloor has all of the same technological trappings that would make living on Mars cool, but in a setting that is vastly richer. It's full of plants, animals, hydrothermal vents, coral reefs, etc. etc. and so much left to discover.

We haven't even seen an adult colossal squid yet. Only juveniles, which are as long as a bus. And we've found wounds on them that indicate that there's something down there which preys on collossal squid. Read back over that sentence a few times.

I am not saying don't go to space. I am not saying live underwater until the sun expands and kills us. I am saying we have many centuries until we'll be able to expand, in earnest, and become a multiplanet or multi star system species. We should use those centuries to explore and exploit the ocean, rather than twiddling our thumbs waiting for warp drives.

>>4061351
So colossal squid are bigger than giant squid?

I think that we should colonize both the sea and space, but if we had to pick one to do first, then I'd pick space due to the possibility of an apocalyptic event occurring on the Earth.

>>4061360

Yup. And there's something that eats them which we haven't seen yet.

>>4061376
Holy shit.

Think it's some variation of shark? Or is the depth too deep for sharks?

>>4061381

Well the problem is, most of our deep sea footage comes from dropcams. They are not very versatile; immobile, often pointing in one direction, and sometimes they get footage of very large creatures that might just be unusually large specimens of known species, but they can't be identified just from seeing a small part of their body of brief glimpses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zyoLBU4SX8#t=0m30

It is known that colossal squid prey on whales occasionally, so whales are out. They also can't dive to the depths where colossal squid typically live.

Pic related, as you will see in the video the red line is the edge of the creature's body.

>>4061375
The sea would be easier. If everything was equal then I'd choose space, but I figure we might as well go under the sea while we're waiting for the technology for space habitats to be polished off.

A freeze frame from the video shows that it is what appears to be a gigantic shark with unusual flipper-like fins. Maybe a whale shark, but it lacks a whale shark's body size or markings, and this video was shot in one of the deepest trenches on Earth. I keep trying to upload a screengrab but for whatever reason it keeps saying 'upload failed'. :I

A deepsea lab wouldn't really help with finding these unusual species, though; We discover species like this by combing the seafloor in submersibles and ROVs. The only thing we need a deep sea lab for is prolonged study of hydrothermal vent ecosystems.

>>4061416
>I figure we might as well go under the sea while we're waiting for the technology for space habitats to be polished off.

Developing deep sea vehicles, suits and habitats directly accelerates the development of materials and technologies applicable to space habitats. It isn't just "something we may as well do to pass time". It generates the wealth and technology necessary to thrive in space.

>>4061419
>>4061419
He is right about one thing. Underwater has a lot of wierd shit that shows up on sonar underway, (and SOMETHING tried to snack on some Virgina causing the damn stealth coatings to come off)

>>4061432
Cookie cutter shark

This is what it did to an unmanned sub

>>4061453

I have seen pictures of the perfectly round holes they took out of this guy's leg. Hory shet. Pic related

There's a good reason why materials scientists are interested in the substances that make up the bodies of some deep sea creatures. If it can take a bite out of a sonar dome....

>>4061432

Got a link? Sounds like the Bloop might be real.

>> Space isn't as scary as ocean.

>>4061464
>If it can take a bite out of a sonar dome....
then they can take a bite out of the underwater habitat, causing a fatal leak.

>>4061479

That's true. It's never happened, though. The question is, what material was the radar dome made out of? Surely it can't bite through titanium.

>>4061478
>>> Space isn't as scary as ocean.

Truth, although there's only so much 'room', ecologically, for large predators in the deep. We've only seen a few, and there's food to support a modest variety, but it's a bit of a downer knowing that by sometime next century we'll have found them all. It will take some of the mystery and thrill out of deep sea exploration once we put a face to every type of monster in the deep ocean.

>>4061478
mostly hearsay from work, if I can find stuff I'll link it eventually seabros.

>>4061464
Less painful and more fun: I really want a remora to attach itself to me when I go diving.

Only one thing in the ocean really scares me: squid. Caribbean reef squid are adorable, but humboldt squid and bigger are positively terrifying.

>>4061464
>>4061453

>>4061489
Depends on what kind of monsters we find. But look at it this way, you won't be alive when they discover the last creatures of the deep.

>>4061489
rubber, neoprene, they apparently eat at cables too (and I thought that was just the Carter!)

>>4061453
Once it starts biting it can't stop until the bite is complete, it's an involuntary action. So even though it may not like what it's biting into, it still may take a chunk out of it.

That's plexiglass I think.

>>4061493
>humboldt squid and bigger are positively terrifying.

As consolation, most squid species are harmless. But yeah, Humboldt squid are aggressive, mean bastards. Watch the Google Talk I linked earlier, Scott Cassel talks about how the native fishermen warned him not to dive with the Humboldts because they were known to deliberately kill people. He disregarded that, and sure enough on his first dive they mobbed him and dragged him straight down in an attempt to drown him. That's why he dives tethered to his boat now, with chainmail armor to protect from their beaks, and his arms up at his chest; They go straight for the finger and wrist joints with their beaks as they know those are weak spots.

Pic related, big dead Humboldt squid.

Gigantic sea creatures fascinate me. Pic related; sunfish.

>>4061493
>humboldt squid and nigger are positively terrifying
FTFY

Echizen jelly, largest known species of jellyfish.

>>4061522

>Scuba diving
>Get stung by gigantic jellyfish tendrils
>Paralyzed
>Slowly pulled into the body of the jellyfish and dissolved into nutrients

This is some nightmare fuel right here.

>They go straight for the finger and wrist joints with their beaks as they know those are weak spots.

>>4061533
don't forget the eyes, shit is scary.

>>4061511
Yeah, big and fucking scary.

I love the adorable little bioluminescent guys I see during night dives. Octopuses are my bros too, I help them find crustaceans to eat and they come to curiously check me out.

Similarly, sharks aren't all that scary. If you can see them at any distance, they see you and you look nothing like food. The smell of neoprene also doesn't help their appetite. Totally calm around the bull sharks last winter.

>>4061522
>>4061530
I once got "sea herpes" from a stray jellyfish tentacle. Insta-pain in my lip and swelling. Thankfully, someone on the boat had vinegar.

>>4061533

The Nuytco Exosuit has a pair of three fingered robotic hands called prehensors for precisely that reason. Well that, and better dexterity compared to the simple claws on the last generation of diving exoskeletons.

How come the upper layers of the ocean are full of creatures that are beautiful and friendly, but the deeper you go the uglier and more aggressive they get? It's like the top of the ocean is all pokemon and the bottom is all Lovecraftian horrors.

This thread made me want to become a marine biologist.

>>4061575
They aren't all that different.

The low light kinda makes coloration unnecessary, so they aren't cute and colorful.

Were the pictured fish not so colorful, it'd be horrifying to many.

>>4061575

No sunlight gets down there, so animals only have a couple options: Eat things that float down, eat other things down there, or eat shit that grows in thermal vents. Being aggressive and hostile helps for all of those goals, so those traits were selected for.

>>4061581

Why? On land the animals are cute, interesting and even the ferocious ones are good to look at and easy to defend against.

The ocean is like 50% cute animals and the rest are horrible ugly abominations that will kill you in the worst ways if they get ahold of you.

>>4061598
And that's why I want to become a marine biologist.

The creatures down there are simply amazing, fascinating.

>>4061600

Agreed. It's their surreal nightmarish quality that makes them interesting. They're the kind of animals that if you didn't already know they existed you would assume they could exist only in science fiction or horror movies. Pic related

>>4061609
Awww, that's just a chimera. Simple cartilaginous fish, relative of the rays, guitarfish, sawfish, and sharks.

I did a deep night dive once and managed to find a ratfish, so I guess I can rightfully claim to have seen a chimera in the wild.

Don't be such pussies. Mankind has the technology to (temporarily) survive in some pretty crazy environments. This isn't to mention the fact that YOU ARE THE GREATEST SUPERPREDATOR ON THE PLANET. If Cthulhu tasted good and existed, he'd be calamari in a fancy restaurant by next week.

>>4061622

Haha! Oh I know, and I'm not afraid of ghost sharks/chimerafish, just saying they have a cool, creepy look about them typical of deep sea life. It's the ambiance that makes it appealing, the same thrill as a suspenseful horror movie, gliding silently along in your glass bubble looking out at a strange world, like a parallel dimension of darkness and pressure more alien to our experience than space, never knowing when some unknown monstrosity will appear.

So basically what you're telling me is you think I should go live in a place that is like something out of silent hill but with velociraptor squid, giant sharks and neurotoxic jellyfish the size of a bus, as-yet-unseen gigantic horror creatures and endless pitch black darkness, frigid cold and immense pressure like some sort of hellish otherworld created specifically to torment our imaginations.

Give me powered armor, a torpedo launcher and sign me the fuck up

Holy shit.

I'm going to have to make an "Ocean" folder. Or maybe "Seabro".

>>4061692

You are small time. My sea thread is at 3 gigs already. Madsci probably got most of his stuff from what I post in these threads.

How can computer science help with this kind of research?

Simulation software? Robotics?

>>4061747
I was thinking about something similar.

What about a programmer marine biologist?

>>4061747

ROVs, my friend. They are crude right now. What I'd really like to see is something like NASA's "Robonaut 2" but capable of walking/swimming on the bottom of the deepest trenches.

Connect it to a control station on the surface via fiber optic cable, where a guy in a haptic control exoskeleton has all of his motions relayed down the robot, and he wears a VR headset with head tracking so he sees what the robot sees in 3d with full freedom to look around, reach out, pick things up, use tools and so on.

Until nanocarbon tech is good enough to build a 1atm exoskeleton for humans that will survive at those depths, this is as close to an unencumbered human presence in the deep trenches as we can aspire to.

>>4061770
It looks retarded as hell.

>>4061782

Here's one of the most advanced deep sea rovers, Nereus. It was a two part probe with a detacthable sub portion that could zoom around freely, without a cable, then come back and dock to the rover to recharge. It had true full ocean depth capability and was in fact only the second or third probe to be sent to the challenger deep and return samples, but it's still pretty crude compared to what we could accomplish.

We'll need fully autonomous ROVs to explore Europa, for instance. And btw, Robotnaut may look retarded but being able to map a robot's arms/hands to the motions of human arms/hands gives them the kind of dexterity that made for the best argument in favor of sending humans over robots. Won't work that well in space due to the communication delay, but for a deep sea robot there wouldn't be any lag. It would be exactly like being down there in person.

A NEEMO aquanaut with a NASA oceanic rover being tested as an analog to a Mars rover for joint robot/human missions.

>>4061782
Yeah, well try controlling something like pic related intuitively.

>>4061795
That's not Nereus, that's a bottom crawling trench digger. Nereus can't autonomously recharge. Nereus can, however, be configured to be an AUV or an ROV.

>>4061801

Haha, I'm picturing a guy in a full haptic VR getup inside a water tank doing the crabwalk.

Also, this is DepthX: NASA's experimental AUV. It navigated and mapped a sea cave in 3d unassisted as a study in the feasibility of sending a fully autonomous probe to Europa.

>>4061807

Multiple sites identify both the rover and the ROV/AUV in your picture as Nereus. Do a GIS for "nereus rov".

>>4060867
>A sub made out of legos
THIS SEEMS LEGIT

Actually, that's kind of cool, OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxOtD7OZ294

>>4061811
However, the picture you posted is a cable maintenance ROV made by Pharos Offshore Group which is independent of the Nereus HROV operated by Wood's Hole.

http://www.pharosoffshoregroup.com/Dalefleet_Equipment.htm
pic unrelated

>>4061824

I don't deny that, just saying they both appear to be named Nereus, hence the confusion. And I recalled Nereus being a hybrid ROV, although apparently not in the way I thought.

>>4061809
Ocean explorers get all the neat little machines.

>>4061830

Don't forget suits.

What we could really use though is a full ocean depth capable humanoid ROV operable over fiber optic tether.

>>4061833
Dammit Madsci, I never thought about the ocean until I came to this board and looked at your threads.
Now I want to be a damn marine biologist.

>>4061833

That is so cool looking.

>>4061835

Do it. That's not for me, I'm into the technology side of it, but it's the discovery of exotic new organisms that really sustains the field, especially due to pharmaceutical applications.

>>4061747
>>4061759
Programmers already use biomimicry in making of AI robot software and a bunch of other stuff
Did you know ants are the best for solving complex 2D salesman problems?
www.idsia.ch/~luca/acs-bio97.pdf

Plus US Navy - DARPA funds a lot of research into undersea tech applications

>>4061840

Invented by this motherfucker right here, Phil Nuytten. Best known for the Newt Suit, the Exosuit's predecessor.

Also in that pic he's piloting a Deep Worker 2,000 which he also invented. Here, two of them are being used just outside the Aquarius Reef base to simulate asteroid exploration vehicles.

>>4061847
>DARPA

THAT'S ALL I NEEDED TO HEAR, SIGN ME THE FUCK UP.

>>4061860

Did you know about their newest project, Underwater Express? It's a rocket powered supercavitating manned submarine that travels 115mph in a membrane of air.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-need-for-speed-all-aboard-the-underwater-express-02782/

>>4061868
Reading now.

I love DARPA. So much.

Do you know if they allow people to test their newest research? Like guinea pigs?

>>4061868
>Nov 09, 2006 12:08 EST

>>4061868

ARE YOU FUCKING SQUIDDING ME DE GESO

>>4061868
>>It's a rocket powered supercavitating manned submarine that travels 115mph in a membrane of air.
and can't see where it's going because sonar doesn't work through a membrane of air.

Steering is also an interesting problem.

>>4061880

My intuition is that it's intended to creep up slowly on impellers, and use the supercav to get away. They're relying on having scored a crippling strike before they rocket away, otherwise yeah it would be a cinch to track them. Although once you reach their last known location while in supercav mode, by then they could be anywhere in a pretty big radius. It makes a lot of sense.

Hurray, posting is back.

>>4061027
>undetectable levels of mercury

what? seriously.

>>4061882
Well the idea is to use it for special forces insertions and extractions(INSERT JOKE HERE), where you want to get in and get out fast and stealthily.

One could solve the navigation problem by using a green or blue laser to communicate with satellites(already demonstrated technology, but pretty crazy) to get position information and maps.
pic related

http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/08/supercativating-submarines-and-possible.html

Though stealthy might be a problem with the noisy supercavitation system.

>>4061892

Oh I know, it's faster than a speedboat and supposedly they have some method of redirecting the noise to make it stealthy.

What I'm getting at is that what Darpa says it will be used for is not always what it's actually intended to be used for.

>Though stealthy might be a problem with the noisy supercavitation system.

From your link:

"A supercavitating vessel could make a lot of noise. Applying stealth would be to reduce the sound and to direct the detectable sound away from sensors in a predictable way. Being able to alter the detectable signature or create or have unmannded decoys could be useful. Also, by travelling at high speed and possibly having the sound that is given off being not that much faster, the supercavitating vessel could use a detectable burst of speed and then go into silent and stealth mode. It would be known that the supercavitating vessel "

>>4061003
>If you're acclimated to the environment there's not much need for a wetsuit, harness and so on, you can throw an air cylinder on your back, put the regulator in your mouth and go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompression_sickness

Acclimation my ass.
Going in and out of high pressure environments requires a bit more than acclimation.

>>4061925

...You're suggesting I don't know about the bends?

The bends does not occur when going from a low pressure environment into a high pressure environment. It occurs when you have surfaced suddenly after having descended below 21 feet (or 1.6atm) and stayed there for a period which depends on how deep you go, generally you saturate faster with depth. You can easily go from a 1atm habitat out into an environment that's, say, 100 feet deep and as long as you don't stay any longer than a scuba diver would, you can return to the habitat just as you would return to the surface.

Pic related, diving helmet I built and used to explore the bottom of the Columbia river, using dive tables as a guide for how long I could stay down.

>>4061928
You have quite the ingenuity.

>>4061928
That hose better not be hooked up to an air compressor....

I think the misunderstanding is over the world 'acclimation'. The way I meant it had nothing to do with pressure, but rather becoming acclimated to diving without a wetsuit, being damp most of the time, being comfortable with diving out to a vehicle or separate habitat with only goggles and a microscuba canister, stuff like that. The stuff that separates tourists and water rats. I didn't mean they would somehow adapt to sudden decompression although I can see how you might get that impression from what I wrote.

>>4061931

That hose better not be hooked up to an air compressor....

Of course it is, just not directly. The air compressor feeds a buffer tank, the hose connects to that tank. And of course it's an electric oil free compressor powered by a battery pack and solar array, to avoid fumes getting into the line.

People used surface supplied diving rigs with compressors and helmets for centuries before scuba came into the picture. In fact in some cases that's still how it's done, pic related.

I think the misunderstanding is over the world 'acclimation'. The way I meant it had nothing to do with pressure, but rather becoming acclimated to diving without a wetsuit, being damp most of the time, being comfortable with diving out to a vehicle or separate habitat with only goggles and a microscuba canister, stuff like that. The stuff that separates tourists and water rats. I didn't mean they would somehow adapt to sudden decompression although I can see how you might get that impression from what I wrote.

>>4061931

>>That hose better not be hooked up to an air compressor....

Of course it is, just not directly. The air compressor feeds a buffer tank, the hose connects to that tank. And of course it's an electric oil free compressor powered by a battery pack and solar array, to avoid fumes getting into the line.

People used surface supplied diving rigs with compressors and helmets for centuries before scuba came into the picture. In fact in some cases that's still how it's done, pic related.

>>4061928
if you lay down lay your head back and put one foot(better to put both) in the air the the oxygen will dissolve back into your blood stream stop acting like the bends are a serious problem

>>4061943
You should at least carry a pony tank with that thing. Homemade diving gear and submarine making can be a dangerous hobby.

>mfw when these idiots think living a couple of hundred feet below sea level is feasible.

Have you guys ever though of what you will be able to do with a limited amount of oxygen supply? Even if you bring oxygen tanks you wont be able to live a lifestyle like you have on land. After a couple of weeks you'll be returning to land.

>>4061947
what the fuck am I reading?
http://www.aramcoexpats.com/articles/2006/05/chambers-protect-divers-from-bends/

>>4061947

What? I've never heard of that method. Perhaps it helps for brief dives, but if you live under pressure for days at a time you become fully saturated. As in, to the limits of your tissue's ability to hold nitrogen. At that point there is no easy fix, you need 17 hours of decompression.

>>4061952

...I hope you're not serious. The colony uses a floating solar buoy with a compressor to pump down fresh air, topping up a large bank of air cylinders. This permits the buoy (which is amphibious, with ballast tanks) to sink to the bottom and remain there when not in use, as it need only run for an hour or so twice a day.

What in the ever loving fuck.

http://www.aardvarknyc.com/about/dolphins-rape-people/

>>4061952
>I didn't read the thread, but fuck it, I'm gonna post my ignorance for all to see anyway.

>>4061959
It's their revenge for Carl.

>>4061963
Why do you even have that?

>>4061943
You have yet to address a very important point. What about in cases of emergencies? WTF fuck are you going to do?

>>4061959

I knew it. In every thread like this, the longer it goes on, the more likely dolphin sex will be discussed.

I call it Carl's Law.

>>4061967
I was actually discussing it in another thread on /co/.

>>4061966

>What about in cases of emergencies? WTF fuck are you going to do?

You could actually jump out the airlock and swim up to the surface if you wanted to. If it's a 1atm colony, you never saturated because you were never under pressure. You can swim straight to the surface without any issues. Of course there are two 'elevator' minisubs on tethers to take people to the surface in emergencies and for when they want to visit the shore so that would never be necessary. Even so, you could do it and be fine.

It's one of the big reasons why the Expeditions went with a 1atm design and not a cheaper ambient pressure one. I feel like nearly all of the objections people raise in these threads are the result of very common misconceptions about pressure, saturation and other diving principles. They're apparently not common knowledge.

>>4061968

Link. I must inform them of Carl's Law.

>>4061965
After the first couple of times when we had undersea fiction threads and the legend of Carl sprung up, I just googled "dolphin sex comic". I did post it in one of those fiction threads.

>captcha: abyssa grue
Yes, if you dive deep enough, it gets really dark and you might get eaten by a Grue.

>>4061973
If you insist.

>>31696391

>>4061981
How did I fuck that up.

>>4061981

Not found.

Also I like how mad started the thread for high minded philanthropic reasons and it went from being a mermaid tits thread to being a Carl thread and nobody ever discussed his topic. Sorry man that's how we roll around here.

>>4061880
>can't see where it's going because sonar doesn't work through a membrane of air

You don't need to ping something as loud as a forced air cavity to know where it is.

>>4061984
Let me try again. Damn.

>>>31696391

>>4061987
Well shit. I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong now.

>>4061985
>>4061985
Sound doesn't transfer very well from air to water which makes sending and receiving sound through a bubble quite difficult.

The other issue is the noise generate by said gas and bubble.

>>4061880
HAHAHAH LOLLING SO HARD AT THAT PIC
"bubble generating gas"

>>4061958
it doesnt just magically dissolve the gas stays in your foot so as to not cause an embolism and eventually dissolves into the blood stream the best thing to do is stay completely upside down if possibly it only takes 1cc of gas to cause an embolism but this is an effective method used by divers and intravenous drug users alike

>>4061989

That's exactly what I'm talking about. You don't need to ping anything when the bubble very loudly announces its presence.

>>4061992
A rock wouldn't be able to move out of the way even if you announced your presence to it.

>>4061987
>>4061988
This way
>>>/co/31696391

>>4061999
Thank you.

Motherfucker I could not get that working for the life of me.

>>4062001
you put together:
>>>
/co/
and the post number

Unless you use some plugins, you need to do it manually, the other-boards-quoting isn't automatic

>>4061997

A rock also can't fire back.

Oh gods I'm dying of laughter
>so, there are no other sapient species on your world?
>Actually, I think humans and Neanderthals coexisted for a while back in prehistory
>Oh, what happened to them?
>Think we killed 'em.
>...
>Oh, and I think dolphins might count, they're not extinct yet
>Dolphins?
>Yeah, they're pretty smart. They hunt their predators for fun and rape people sometimes.
>What is wrong with your planet

>Scott Randleston of the Dolphin Research Institute of Boca Raton, has been studying dolphin behavior for 17 years, and came up with the decoy program. “In every case the decoy was set upon in a short time by groups of dolphins ranging from 8 to 20 young males. It seems there are gangs of dolphin predators roaming the open waters looking for humans to sexually assault. The dolphins in each case were observed circling the swimmer as one of the group grabbed them with their penis and dragged them under, then the others followed. You see dolphins have a prehensile penis, it is full of powerful muscles and they can wrap it around objects, such as a human wrist, ankle, neck, or waist. One could compare it to a boa constrictor or an elephant trunk….The decoys never resurfaced in any of the studies…. We tracked one of the decoys to an underwater cave where it had been repeatedly raped and torn apart by the dolphins. ”

The only objection I really have with living in the sea is that when something like this swims up to you, you can't really KILL IT WITH FIRE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzxUIlnyg2Q

At least unless you take certain measures to have underwater fire.

>>4062022

>>4061972
How far underwater would this hypothetical habitat be?

Not sure going from 1atm to whatever pressure the outside environment is will be all that fun.

But of course, getting hit by a truck going at 60mph is harmless, because riding in one going 60mph is fine.

Different mechanics at work, but same principle your suggesting.

>>4062037
During a short dive to the surface, the blood doesn't get the outside nitrogen to supersaturate itself, which effectively prevents there ever being the amount of nitrogen in the blood that would bubble and cause the bends.

>>4062041

Bingo. There's danger involved, but not from the bends. It would be in remembering not to hold your breath on the way up, and in having to switch from air to trimix in the airlock, then back to air halfway to the surface. Hence why that's not a serious plan for evacuation, and we're using elevator submersibles instead.

>mfw the reason projects like these don't get off the ground often is because of the miscalculations the idiots that promote them produce, rather than being a pointless idea in the first place

>>4062130

>>4062037
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinke_hood
Pretty standard escape procedure from a 1atm habitat.

>>4062104
>having to switch from air to trimix in the airlock
Given the brevity of the ascent, why would that even be an issue?

I'm going to smile when those CERN experiments lead to practical faster than light travel, and we end up colonizing the nearby star systems long before we build substantial underwater habitats.

>>4062229
Even if that worked, there's still the insurmountable problem that people want to use expensive, shitty rockets to climb out of the Earth's gravity well.

>>4061880
>cavity piercing control fins steer the missile
Steering is not an issue, the newer model is supposed to have active steering like spaceships even. Also, Shkval is wire guided like many torpedoes.

>>4061882
>>4061868
DARPA is just trying not to look so far behind the commies, truth is they are more concerned with improving performance of conventional subs/torps.

>>4062229
>CERN experiments lead to practical faster than light travel

>implying CERN experiments will lead to anything practical

Thats a good one.

Fucking magnets, how do they work?

>>4061880
mount cable to back
steer from submarine.

This is an old old old solution to this issue.

>>4060930

You do realize that ranting like a madman only makes you seem dumb and violent and most likely, black.

If you want to convince anyone here, you should show us numbers. We like numbers. We understand numbers. We avoid angry people shouting things, because that is a sign of not actually having valid arguments.

Please understand you are currently coming across as someone who condemns others for having dreams or thinking differently, which is a shrill contrast with actual scientific minds.

>is it possible?
>well, it's probably not impossible
>okay, let's research it then

>>4060940

Yeah man, like, we totally wouldn't have an example of what that's like or be able to think of security measures.

You know, kind of like a boat that can go underwater that has all the problems you just mentioned. Yup, impossible.

>>4060963

Can someone please remove the angry new age creationist? He's bothering people again with his wild tales of gods and evolution being non-existant.

>>4061119

No more saggy tits on our women that's what

>>4062353
I think Heinlein and Asimov used that argument in some of their books to support moon colonies(perky due to low gravity).

In Gods Themselves and The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, IIRC.

>>4062022

If dolphins are so smart, though, I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to realise it was a doll. Nothing wrong with using a toy you found drifting in the ocean.

>>4062516
They've also been documented to rape their own to death, so, quoting the /co/ thread:
>so, there are no other sapient species on your world?
>Actually, I think humans and Neanderthals coexisted for a while back in prehistory
>Oh, what happened to them?
>Think we killed 'em.
>...
>Oh, and I think dolphins might count, they're not extinct yet
>Dolphins?
>Yeah, they're pretty smart. They hunt their predators for fun and rape people sometimes.
>What is wrong with your planet?

>>4062516

>"Hey look, a human!"
>"What should we do? They could be in trouble."
>"Rape 'em."
>"Oh hey, it's just a doll."
>"Rape it."
>"Ideas like that are why you're the boss"