/sci/ - Science & Math

I thought we all knew that a lot of these problems are related to not having enough parasites and other immune-system workout plans. If autism is caused by women bearing children late, then these would naturally go hand in hand, the underlying cause being "economic success."

>Incredibly biased picture
>Daily Mail
>Scientist who has been proven to been lying on the possible Autism link
>Posts 'u mad' for no reason.

No, I'm not mad. But you are an idiot.

No. You should be though.
Research b4 opening that big stupid brain of yours.
How embarassing for you.

>>2424606

>shoot the messenger
>judge a book by its cover
>slander
>poor attempt to derail thread

OP=Incredibly ignorant

>>2424639
yet OP's argument is still a load of baloney, and you have done nothing to prove otherwise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

I think vaccines could actually be safe if they didn't put all that poison in it. The theory behind it is good, and it wiped out diseases like polio, spotted fever and smallpox. What they are doing with it now is criminal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-388051/Scientists-fear-MMR-link-autism.htm

>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/

>daily mail

The daily-fucking-fail, this "study" has lost any credibility it may once have possessed.

>>2424639

covers are specifically made to give a general idea of the contents

>You mad?

"Not giving a shit" would describe my feelings more precisely.

>>2424681

>Babies are dying
>I don't give a shit

Well aren't you cool!

>>2424646
Heh.... actually you imbecils who think you can trust the drug companies with your childerens lives are the ignorant ones.
Let me guess, your thinking:
>Anyone who thinks vaccines are bad is just gonna get sick oh tee hee. Erry one knows its just an enert form of the virus hyk hyk hyk.
No, the DRUG COMPANIES ARE BAD, not the concept of vaccination. But they do make bad vaccines the likes of which you never hear of on the news because their all as bad as fox, every one, but you dont know the difference because it is you who is ignorant.

Oh btw:
Scientist [x]
Not Op [x]
Belives conspiricies are easy to make and exist all the time [x]

>>2424691
Good, they are a drain on our resources anyway.

captcha: stable economic

>>2424691
>Implying my honourable anon's apathy is because of "Babies dying" and not because of the fact that this same shit has been repeated time and time again, and time and time again it has been dis-proven.

>>2424713
>Drug companies are bad

Really? Well I like the idea of not living in fear of a smallpox out brake.
I also like:
Not having to worry about a simple infection
Not having to worry about Rabies
Not having to worry about most diseases and illnesses.

And it's all because of drug companies AND vaccines.

>>2424754
>Really? Well I like the idea of not living in fear of a smallpox out brake.
>I also like:
>Not having to worry about a simple infection
>Not having to worry about Rabies
>Not having to worry about most diseases and illnesses.
Listing your own biases and vested interests. I've already said that:
>DRUG COMPANIES ARE BAD, not the concept of vaccination
You have no idea about the vaccines containing live, infectious forms of the viruses which keep getting descovered, not by the companies, but by the regulating agencies and it never gets on the front page or the 6o'clock, but later the regulatory body ends up letting them go ahead with it.

Another case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg5x-zUS5N8

No bread in britain looks like your bleached stuff. Yet "its safe".

ITT: retards who don't realize that scientists develop vaccines, drug companies just manufacture and distribute them.

Lol, aluminum phosphate isn't very hazardous. I wonder why they chose to put that on Ingredients.

>>2424811
And you think that explains how scientists develop a product and it is NOT changed during manufacturing?

>>2424811
>Implying that Drug companies don't do/fund research and development.

>>2424795
Surly not having to worry about dying from a simple infection is not my "vested interest" but a global vested interest.

Also what people don't understand is that the drug companies are kind of relying on the people taking their drugs not to die.

>You have no idea about the vaccines containing live, infectious forms of the viruses which keep getting descovered

Two things:
1.) Vaccines are made using a weakened or attenuated form of the bacterium that causes the illness
2.) You spelt Discovered wrong.

Saying that drug companies are making unsafe vaccines is like saying the people who build nuclear reactors are building them with inherent safety issues. Or that people laying rail road tracks are laying them purposefully out of line. It's all retarded.

>>2424876
>implying it's not the scientists who request the funding to carry out their own research

>>2424895
>Implying you're addressing both points made when you're only addressing one.

>Also what people don't understand is that the drug companies are kind of relying on the people taking their drugs not to die.
Moron, they keep people sick so they can sell more and increase there market share. They introduce infectious viruses through vaccines.
>Two things:
>1.) Vaccines are made using a weakened or attenuated form of the bacterium that causes the illness
No moron vaccines contain viruses only, anti-biotics are used on bacteria...
>2.) You spelt Discovered wrong.
Oh no, am i a moron?

>Saying that drug companies are making unsafe vaccines is like saying the people who build nuclear reactors are building them with inherent safety issues. Or that people laying rail road tracks are laying them purposefully out of line. It's all retarded.

That is retarded because its a retarded analogy.

Look... kid, i'm sorry i called you a moron, it seems like you could benefit from learning critical thinking, and, unlike the rest of the morons, actually use it.
http://www.criticalthinking.org.uk/

>>2424876
>Also what people don't understand is that the drug companies are kind of relying on the people taking their drugs not to die.
Moron, they keep people sick so they can sell more and increase there market share. They introduce infectious viruses through vaccines.
>Two things:
>1.) Vaccines are made using a weakened or attenuated form of the bacterium that causes the illness
No moron vaccines contain viruses only, anti-biotics are used on bacteria...
>2.) You spelt Discovered wrong.
Oh no, am i a moron?

>Saying that drug companies are making unsafe vaccines is like saying the people who build nuclear reactors are building them with inherent safety issues. Or that people laying rail road tracks are laying them purposefully out of line. It's all retarded.

That is retarded because its a retarded analogy.

Look... kid, i'm sorry i called you a moron, it seems like you could benefit from learning critical thinking, and, unlike the rest of the morons, actually use it.
http://www.criticalthinking.org.uk/

>>2425049
Oh, I see. Man am I blind.

>>2425049
>No moron vaccines contain viruses only, anti-biotics are used on bacteria...
That's just... wrong. Tetanus, pertussis (wooping cough), anthrax, cholera, strep, staph, and lyme disease are just few bacterial disease with vaccines.

ITT: retards who didn't read the article and don't realize that that study doesn't actually demonstrate that MMR causes regressive autism (even if you take the Daily Mail's reporting at face value -- which is a dumb thing to do anyway, since the Daily Mail has a long history of science journalism fails).

I've heard this befor and i've heard this being de-fucking-bunked before too.

Go away.

You're not going to convince anyone here that autism is linked to vaccines.

And frankly- it does make me mad that fearmongers refuse to accept this shit just to sell books.

>>2425220
What's worse is even if this WAS true, which it isn't, the benefits would FAR outweigh the risks.

>vaccines
>autism

lolnope

Explain the point of the tetanus shot.

Tetanus is caused by a toxin released by a certain type of bacteria.

You cannot build antibodies against a toxin, so why even vaccinate for it? It is certainly not vaccinating the bacteria part.

There have been many cases who have gotten tetanus even when they were "vaccinated" against it.

It would seem that tetanus shots are a prime example of pharmaceutical companies trying to make money.

>>2425253
>Implying that C. tetani doesn't exist.

>>2425230
Exactly. You're better off with a 0.001% chance of autism versus a 1% chance of DEATH.

I'd be more serious about this, but this thread hasn't been serious since it started.

Lean the difference between a case study and a statistical link.

Honestly, pubmed should have a simple quiz that you have to pass before you're allowed to read the papers.

>>2425253
>There have been many cases who have gotten tetanus even when they were "vaccinated" against it.
To quote an overused phrase [citation needed]

Also, you really should read up on how the tetanus vaccine works. Then you wouldn't embarrass yourself.

no

>>2425253
>You cannot build antibodies againsta toxin

Of course you can. study harder kiddo

>>2424795
>Watch video
>"It contains chlorine, like in your pool!"
>"Nitrous dioxide, like laughing gas, but a little different!"
Stopped watching.

>mfw this study is old as hell and the scientists in question have done the academic equivalent of calling bullshit on one's self a LOOOOOOONG-ass time ago

Firstly, Dr Wakefield admitted from the start there was no proven link. A bunch of new age morons and journalists more interested in a good scare story than in reality jumped on it and went nuts.

Yet again we have a study that's looking at fairly common diseases and near universal factors factors that doesn't even draw the conclusion that the two are linked and furthermore, doesn't offer any sort of mechanism or explanation as to why they would be in the first place.

It is pathetic and disgusting that people would prey on the fears of parents so grossly as to risk the health of an innocent child by leaving them vulnerable to easily prevented diseases. These uneducated alarmists should be held accountable for all the lives they are destroying to sell a story or a chunk of expensive placebo.

where I live vaccines are free, paid for by the state.
I don't know the governmets of your countries but here the covernment doesn't give out free stuf if it weren't good and necesary,
About 3 years ago there was a pretty big scandal because a some girls got a disease from a vaccine and thousands of them were removed and thrown away, only to latter discover that it had been due to something else.

In short, vaccines are cool

P.S. excuse my english

>>2425414
>I'm an applied clinical nutritionist.
Hell I'm a nutritionist to, erryones a nutritionist, erryone can call themselves a nutritionist.
>It uses Chlorine Dioxide, which is like Chlorine
<Facepalm>
>It uses Nitrous dioxide, which is like laughing gas only different
<Faceplam>
>Compares household bleach to this
WTF has that got to do with anything?
>Talks about Alloxan in flour links it to diabetic lab mice
<SUPER Facepalm> doesn't realise that at very high concentrations no damage to the beta cells in humans

>I wish I had a reaction face when I realised this was all during the first 2 minutes.

>Bleaching flour has been made illegal in Europe
It's actually only certain types of bleaching agent.
>Show clip from New York Times mentioning "bleaching controversy"
The story is dated 1910 almost 100 years before dickweed made this video.

All of this before the 3 minute mark. WTF?

If you know anything about the history of vaccination/innoculation, these people are the same people who thought you'd turn into a cow after cowpox innoculation.

Here's the paper on the study, didn't find shit

"Although in this small sample size there were no differential responses between the autistic and non-autistic sibling, a larger number of individual samples (biological replicates) must be examined to determine with certainty the relevance of this observation"
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W81-4K6CHRV-1&_user=582538&_c
overDate=09%2F30%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&am
p;_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1622213659&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C0000
29718&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=582538&md5=9d03cf11c63834268d5f06ba730250e3&a
mp;searchtype=a

>>2424639
>implying everything he said isn't true

I can't believe you guys trust the pharmaceutical companies.

>>2426774
Amoral jackasses with some science behind them versus amoral jackasses back with the power of woo.

I know who I'd choose. Every day of the damn week. Twice on Sundays.

>>2424599
>British doctor Andrew Wakefield
He's actual had his medical license revoked, and that paper was withdrawn when people looked into his methods and results, discovering that he basically made it all up. He held the patent on a non-combined vaccine that he stood to make millions on if people stopped using MMR. He also licensed the rights to a test for bowel disease which if a panic was created he stood to make millions more from. To top it off he was give half a million pounds by the drug company that manufactured his non-combined vaccine to do the study.

>This guy had no conflicts of interest.

>mfw everyone who wasn't vaccinated with MMR will die
>mfw people who don't vaccinate their children won't have surviving offspring.
>mfw evolution at work

Fuck eugenics. They cull themselves.

>bowel disease
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

>>2428699
Ohh, I do like this idea Anon! Definitely want!

I'd sooner believe bowel disease than I would autism but linking the two puts the article in full retard land.

>>2428699
google heard immunity to find out why it doesn't work like that.

>>2428772

Actually, from what I understood in the Scientific American article about the MMR problem in California, herd immunity simply means that a certain proportion (95%, for example) of the people in the population to be immune to protect people who cannot become immune because of other diseases or other immune system compromises. The only people who received the vaccine who will feel the effects of a significantly decreased herd immunity buffer are the ones that the vaccines did not work for in the first place, which is always a very small percentage, otherwise herd immunity would not work in the first place.

So, yes, the people who did not vaccinate their children will have fewer surviving offspring than the people who did vaccinate their children.

>>2428796

*Correction.
Pertussis (whooping cough) problem.
The author of the article brought it around to MMR.

>>2428796
As there are far more vaccinated that unvaccinated the in sheer numbers more from the vaccinated group will be killed than the unvaccinated.
Their stupidly is a form of biowarfare.

>>2428832

Can you re-write that in coherent english, please?

you guys are morons, have you ever done any research

"Andrew Wakefield’s now infamous MMR study should no longer be referred to as a “scientific” paper, and should be formally retracted by the Lancet. In a judgement published last week, the GMC declared that invasive clinical tests on children in the “Lancet 12” group were undertaken without proper ethics committee approval and without due regard to their clinical needs. Wakefield’s presentation of the referrals as consecutive and routine was also deemed “dishonest,“ “irresponsible,“ and was found to have “resulted in a misleading description of the patient population in the Lancet paper.”

read the damn thing yourselves
http://group.bmj.com/group/media/press-release-archive-files/BMJ/bmj-2010/BMJ%203%20Feb%2010%20-%20T
he%20Lancet%20should%20formally%20retract%20the%20Wakefield%20MMR%20study.pdf/view?searchterm=Wakefi
eld

>>2428836
No, he can't

>>2428875

I did read this, and it DOES NOT REFUTE the science, just the ethics. This is the same argument people use to discredit nazi scientists, but just because some experiments were done unethically, DOES NOT THEIR CONCLUSIONS INVALID. your point is non-sequiter bullshit, sir

well what additives are in the vac is the organic mercury in it? is antifreeze in it?

wicth the flu vacs do have. and alot of other shit that should not be in there.

but i would be more worried about house hold dust it containes alot lead and heavy metals.

babys craw all over the place and are always puting dust cover hands in there mouth. i would be looking in to that and tap water.

>>2429089

that isn't a retarded point you make, but dust and tap water aren't injected into your bloodstream before you even get a chance to develop an immune system

>>2429039
Andrew Wakefield fabricated the science because he was paid to by a rival pharmaceutical company, so he faked everything to link this one type of vaccines to autism, and got hundreds of thousands of dollars for doing it.

This man has the blood of hundreds children on his hands due to the misinformation hes spread.

>>2429118
um you do know that the MMR triple vac is not givien till the child is 1 year old. and has a preatty good immune system right?

>>2429161

you i was worried to death about this my child is 10 months old and going to get her MMR vac in to months.

thanks for posting that here is some info from wiki about that lying faggot
Andrew Wakefield (born 1957) is a British former surgeon and medical researcher known for his fraudulent[1] claims of a causative connection between the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine, autism and autistic enterocolitis. The latter controversial term was created by Wakefield to describe an unproven form of inflammatory bowel disease.

Four years after the publication of the study, the findings of other researchers failed to confirm or reproduce Wakefield's.[2] A 2004 investigation by Sunday Times reporter Brian Deer identified undisclosed financial conflicts of interest on Wakefield's part,[3] and most of his coauthors then withdrew their support for the study's interpretations.[4] The British General Medical Council (GMC) conducted an inquiry into allegations of misconduct against Wakefield and two former colleagues.[5] The investigation centred on Deer's numerous findings, including one that autistic children were subjected to unnecessary invasive medical procedures,[6] such as colonoscopy and lumbar puncture, and that Wakefield acted without the required ethical approval from an institutional review board.

OP you should watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OMLSs8t1ng

Might open your eyes.

>dailymail
>nope.avi

> Daily Mail

Gee, there's a scientifically credible and journalistically responsible piece.

>>2424599
ah, come on it was just proven that the original study is faked and on a level (bribes suspected) where they will do a review of all studies that the author has been involved in.

Lets just accept that there is no truth in that claim that vaccines causes autism etc. and get on with life.