/sci/ - Science & Math

Its true. But having a """"career""""" is also a meme, so its fine.

>>15883382
Yes 100% i did a degree. If I had a company I wouldn't hire any of my classmates. We were given fun projects and they completely tossed it through incompetence.
Many get a degree because they don't know what else to do with their life and don't have any interest in the subject they're learning.

>>15883382
Many good companies will hire based on the degree, it's basically some proof that you're willing to put in time and effort, but then they'll provide the training necessary to actually do the job.

>>15883382
It's true in my view, yet YMMV.
In my case, it's in terms of modern-day American engineering graduates (especially undergrads).
As I've seen, you either get the degree to apply it in industry, you get stuck in academic research at uni (possibly to get higher education, so it can have purpose), or you get a job that doesn't utilize the degree at all.

I went to college for my bachelor's in electrical engineering, got internships, and have a decent career ahead of me. I struggled academically through online classes during 2020 but made a decent rebound afterwards.
Had a friend from high school that went into mechanical engineering, did the absolute minimum, no internships, and is now working at a grocery store stocking shelves. Dude had like a 3.75 cumulative GPA, yet no industry experience.

Sure, the corporate world is hell and all that. But I do enjoy what I'm doing, and I do see the changes that I make in my position.
Afterall - in the end - it's work that you're being paid for... My coworkers make it a bit more bearable with similar technical interests, tasks, etc.

In conclusion, the meme's relation to reality can be quite trivial. It really depends on what you're going to school for.

>>15883382
The meme seems like cope for people who never got a degree. There are many reasons to not get a degree. Having a successful startup like mark zuckerberg is one. An unexpected pregnancy or financial problems might be more common. Of course, these things can also mean that someone never even went to college, it's not dropouts. And then there are those who are simply too dumb to get a degree or have a mental illness that prevents them from getting the degree.
Especially the latter need the most cope. Those people share memes like yours on platforms like Facebook or Reddit.

>>15883458
it didn't use to be like that, shit's gone down the drain

>>15883382
Private schools and for-profit schools were a mistake.

>>15883485
Oh yeah, it's a waste of time and money. More relevant education would be nice, or just skip the "education" and get on-the-job training, but then they'd probably rely on IQ tests or something to choose job candidates and the public would throw a fit that they're being segregatory.

>>15883382
Development of skills goes beyond getting a degree or a trade. You still need to put work into your own self-development in order to be employable. Everything else exists to bolster that aspect.

>>15883382
>How true is this meme?}
Very true, because I have both a skill I'm good at and college education, and they're only related by the flimsiests of contrivances.

> It seems education is going to shit in the former first world countries
It's the thing you do when you don't know what to do, to educate you to become a better serf. Of course, it's a serf for the industrialized, technologically developed, modern civilization, but still a serf, you'll spend the rest of your life doing what you're told or telling others what to do to serve some interest or another, normally profit.

>Are degrees becoming trivial and intellectually worthless pieces of paper?
Since the democratization of public education, yes. That was the whole point by the way.

>>15883382
I am a senior software engineer and I do plenty of interviews. The difference between retarded NEETs who have only grinded leetcode and guys with an actual mathematical and scientific training is stark. You can immediately see they approach the problem in a more reasoned, clear and mathematical way. They know what they need to do and they can slice the problem into simpler subproblems, and regarding the subproblems they don't know how to solve they can easily search online or ask specific question to the seniors fir help

You won't get a job without a masters, and you can't have skills without years of practice
so it's a meme either way

>>15883641
>They know what they need to do and they can slice the problem into simpler subproblems, and regarding the subproblems they don't know how to solve they can easily search online or ask specific question to the seniors fir help
I work in semiconductors, and as fast paced as it is, I've noticed that this really sets interns vying for a full-time job apart. Those who act independently and communicate with others tend to get a lot more notice from admin. The degree and *some* applications training in school can help. Regardless, there really is a stark difference as you had described.

>>15883641
CS majors don't even do mathematics

>>15883382
Getting a degree gives you skills. That's literally the point. Who would you prefer to treat your illness? The crunchy mom down the way, a vet tech, or an actual doctor?

>>15883664
But you see, the crunchy mom has a bigger carrot.

>>15883674
Based futa fetishist

I have a degree and you are
J
E
A
L
O
U
S

>>15883382
Show me one skilled synthetic chemist without a degree

>>15883703

>>15883483
This. I have nothing against people who don't have degrees, many of them can be very hardworking, smart, successful people. But many times people without degrees have a weird complex about it. My degree isn't my entire personality, so I don't know why not having a degree is theirs.

>>15883485
It used to be like that. They bootcamp retards came in and companies started hiring them without looking at the college degree. Now they're realising their mistake, they've gone back to selecting based on college degree. You don't hear coding bootcamp as much as you did in 2012 to covid

>>15883664
>Getting a degree gives you skills.
This guy has never known a medical student who became an experienced doctor. He hasn't even read a page of physiology, anatomy, pathology or pharmacology. Astounding ignorance or deception. Please study music theory for six years, playing twinkle twinkle little star once in a while and perform a concert. You can't. That's why doctors train an additional four years and surgeons lose their license if they don't perform at least a few hundred surgeries of a particular type a year.

>>15883664
NTA but given those three choices, I would prefer to diagnose myself and bribe the vet tech to give me the drugs I prescribe for myself. I would unironically prefer to be treated by my dog's veterinarian than any doctor I've ever met, save for my uncle.

>>15883727
>>15883734
Future Darwin Award winners. Thank you in advance for enriching our gene pool by getting the hell out of it.

>>15883754
>I know better than you because...
>...because okay?!

>>15883382
>who have less actual knowledge than I had in highschool.
knowledge about what

>>15883761
>I know better than you because...
I got a degree in the subject. Not a complicated idea.

>>15883664
>Getting a degree gives you skills
Lmao even
also I wouldn't trust any of those people

>>15883804
>>15883754

>>15883382
>>15883727
Name a doctor or working surgeon who don't have a MD degree.
Name a molecular biologist, protein crystalographer, synthetic chemist, dentist, electron microscope technician or a solid state physicist who does not have a degree. What are "skills"? Are those "skills" in the room with us right now? How do you learn to skillfuly set up organic synthesis pathways, isolate and analyze DNA sequences, perform qualitative analysis of composition of compounds or prepare samples and analyze confocal microscopy images without your rich dad setting you up with a private laboratory or a professor dad that shows you around the lab?

>>15883382
That's not what carrot greens look like. The artist should have worked on their skills or gotten a degree.

>>15883923
This is the dumbest quote ever. Money and degrees are tokens of worth which have to be backed and earned. Money is backed by the government that printed it and degrees are backed by the schools who issue them. We print a shitload of money every year and the standard of living has gone up every decade. If everyone when to school and earned a degree then there would be a lot less stupidity, but not everyone has the chops to get a degree.

>>15883664
>Who would you prefer to treat your illness?
Someone who has a history of treating illnesses, it just so happens that that person had to go through medical school to become eligible to be a doctor. How much would you trust a doctor that has only been in the medical industry for a year or two?
Also anecdotal, but I've had better luck treating common sicknesses with over-the-counter antibiotics than getting a prescription from a doctor lol

>>15884380
>Yeah, I would trust Mother Teresa to treat my wounds instead of giving me sepsis and putting me in the sun to die
How can someone be this ignorant?

>>15883703
Anyone involved for long enough in the drug trade labs

control of the priest class

>>15884330
>We print a shitload of money every year and the standard of living has gone up every decade
False, standards of living stopped progressing at the same time as the money printer was unleashed from the gold standard

>>15884449
Since real incomes haven't increased over the past 50 years while taxation and other expenses have increased, most families now require two incomes to survive, rather than the single income they needed 50 years ago

>>15883382
>I got skills bro! I have this and that!
Meanwhile in reality your resumay gets insta-rejected by ATS because you don't have the relevant degree

pic rel

>>15884626
right, but people who have the genuine ability to produce something of negotiable value don't need to beg to be taken on as a servant in order to obtain a wage, they're able to make money independently of servitude, so your desire to be an employee does not apply in this case.

>>15883382
the meme barely makes sense

>>15884649
OP meme only triggers your emotions because you are a picrel

Deloitte doesn't take you unless you've got some kind of degree. You need something even an associates degree

>>15884655
That pic hurt me, too close to home

>>15884391
Sepsis happens in hospitals too. If your body can't handle it, neither can the doctors.

>>15884741
Not nearly as often as it did under Mother Teresa's care. Do you think that might have something to do with training? Like maybe there's some sort of program where they teach you proper sanitary procedure and how to treat sepsis instead of just letting people die from it? Maybe some kind of "school" or "university", if you will, where you can get this training and some type of certificate to prove you have it...

>>15884449
>>15884454
Income is not synonymous with quality of life. In general death and disease rates have decreased, food availability has increased, luxuries and comforts are more accessible, ect. None of you would actually trade places with someone from the 50's and if you think you would, I encourage you to try to replicate the 50's quality of life. Breath some lead for a more authentic experience.

>>15884747
>Income is not synonymous with quality of life
Schoolchildren like yourself who have all of their bills paid for them by daddy can make statements like that because you're not the one who has to earn an income.
>disease rates have decreased
Is that why the entire planet needed to get vaccinated for a global pandemic recently?
Something like that has never happened before.
>food availability has increased
Is that why we're all being told to eat bugs and estrogen beans?
>luxuries and comforts are more accessible
false, personal savings rates are at or near all time lows, savings and disposable income are both were money for luxuries come from, the current rate is less than 20% of all time highs.
in 1970 the price of gold was $39/oz and the minimum wage was $1.45, so a week's work bought nearly an ounce and a half of gold
gold is currently $2000/oz, the minimum wage would need to be $75 to buy an ounce of that, the minimum wage in 1970 was the equivalent of $150,000 a year today, thats how much worse off people are as a result of the """"progress"""" you and your ilk are constantly bragging about.

>>15883641
In other words they can't actually do their job, they just make a pretend play that you like.

>>15883382
Um. But you should be developing skills by getting a degree. If you're not, it's because you're wasting everyone's time including yours by not taking it seriously.

Seems like the kind of meme someone would post who is totally ignorant as to what is actually involved in getting a degree. You probably think it's just taking classes and sitting around trying to remember things for a test, because all you accomplished was high school (maybe).

>>15883573
Cope harder.

>Since the democratization of public education
That happened over two thousand years ago, dumbass.

>>15884923
You joke, but honestly jobs are about doing things the way your bosses want without asking too many questions. They don't like it if you do things differently and/or try to solve a problem by asking them questions about what they want.

>>15884330
LMAO, he is 100% right about socialist trash like you.

>>15884927
> developing skills by getting a degree
That was true like 20 years ago. Nowadays universities produce activists, no surprise companies prefer people with demonstrable work experience. That is a far safer bet than a fresh degree holder brainwashed to become a trouble maker.

>>15883382
both are retards
the one on the left has neglected something equally important

>>15884954
I really wonder from what perspective that content was written. Old and bitter "20 years ago I had to walk five hours to go to uni, uphill both ways" or "well I didn't even want to pass the entrance exam, you know uni is actually silly and the real geniuses are baristas like me".

>>15883923
The guy is so unhinged that they can't even use photos of him in political Facebook memes. Didn't you find a picture without a chainsaw that would be taken seriously?

>>15884946
>socialist
What decade is it?

>>15884932
I do not joke. What do you think they are going to do once the senior developers retire? They can't do their job for real, the core of the job is figuring out what they can only copy.

>>15884993
Have they tried training workers and incentivizing retention?

>>15884993
It's going to be ok grandpa. Literally every generation before you had the same worry and it worked out fine.

>>15884997
It didn't.

>>15885001
https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
Add 2023: young people don't even know Fortran anymore

>>15885001
If it's really such an issue, companies should be bringing younger workers up to speed on what senior ones are working on and offer healthy compensation, benefits, and advancement opportunities to keep their new young, talented workforce. However, that obviously won't happen and the issue is likely overstated.

>>15885005
Their complaints were justified. Nobody can work anymore, those few who could are not allowed to have jobs, and labelled with random defects.
The "teenage rebellion" is bullshit recently invented by the retards themselves, and taught as something completely normal, but it isn't normal. The people who experienced it were too stupid to understand society.

>>15885023
What do you think is the cause? Lead deficiency?

>>15885024
First you explain to me how everything worked out fine.

>>15885036
I'm NTA.

>>15885023
>Nobody can work anymore
Weird how the boomers of their times have been saying that all throughout recorded history. Are you still upset how sloppily young folks fold their togas?
>those few who could are not allowed to have jobs
What? This feels like some personal story I'd be interested in. Did you get fired for harassing an intern?

>>15885085
No, that's made up. It was first widely told about the boomers.
Explain how everything worked out fine.

>>15884927
>You probably think it's just taking classes and sitting around trying to remember things for a test
That's literally how university works.

>>15883382
It's more like an easter egg. It's nicely decorated, but there isn't the egg inside. When you want to eat, you want the regular egg.
University at best takes the pinnacle of knowledge that was obtained from the wealth of knowledge that somebody had, and shares it with the students, but the underlying knowledge isn't there. It's an empty shell, useless in practice without the underlying knowledge, that the university doesn't teach.

>>15883382
not true at all. the only thing that actually matters is having rich parents.

>>15885113
I never had an exam where notes weren't allowed. How's this about remembering things if you can take 10 sheets of paper with you?

>>15884768
>Schoolchildren like yourself who have all of their bills paid for them by daddy can make statements like that because you're not the one who has to earn an income.
you should see their faces when they finally get their first job and they were told they were earning $1000 a week to start and they get their first paycheck and half the money is gone due to taxes & medical insurance fees and they realize they can't even pay their own bills and that its their own fault because they spent years at college advocating for more government and more taxes more mandatory insurance regulations and were never bright enough to figure out that one day they would have to pay those taxes and fees themselves

>>15884929
>Cope harder
With what? I'm not lying. I'm a serf too

>that happened over two thousand years ago
Oh, yes, some posh twat signed a document in 1787 and now not only the children of aristocracy are allowed at the doors, while they're the only ones able to afford enough schooling to justify higher education
You're being dense on purpose, so I'll rephrase what I meant so you can have fun again. I meant the "mass application of high education in the populace after the 1950s". Now knock yourself out.

>>15883468
So if i don't have any internship experience, is my best option to just lie? I don't want to do that

>>15883754
>NOOOOO DON'T DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH GOYIM!!! TRUST ZE SCIENCE
Why are jews such evil nazis?

>>15883779
A doctor can't perform surgery with only a degree. A degree gives you some knowledge, but it doesn't mean it's applied knowledge.

>>15883382
A degree represents 3 or 4 years of learning. Much less focused than a career though.

>>15885867
A doctor cannot perform surgery without a degree, both legally and because of the amount of training it takes to become a surgeon. You know that when you study to become a surgeon there are labs too, right? They perform surgeries on cadavers and training dolls before they're ever issued a degree.

>>15885824
Take your meds and hurry out of the gene pool.

a degree is simply the minimum, if you don't have even the minimum you're out
if you have the minimum, then you have a foot in the door to prove yourself with your experience

simple as

>>15883382
Degree became mandatory no matter the skill.
You cant work anything in EU if you are not qualified(having a degree/cert) from a proper authority.

>>15884401
I think he means
>"we need this new molecule"
>"ok"
type of chemist

>>15885176
The reaction to companies realizing not paying their workers enough to get by is actually their problem, not just their employees' is honestly even funnier.

>>15885893
>A doctor cannot perform surgery without a degree
Yeah. I don't know what point you're making. A degree gives them some knowledge, but they still need years to apply it. Do you think residencies are unnecessary?

>>15885986
and that """proper authority""" is funded by the communist governments, so you can't work without approval of the communist governments, saying you need to have a degree is just a means of disguising whats really going on: submit to government authority or starve to death

Very. Problem is there is no easy way to quantify 'skills', so a 'degree' parasitically exists in place until a superior form of verification is established. Soon an AI will be able to fully examine your capacities and rate you accordingly, no parasitic 'college' system existing as a middle man. No more bullshit artists.

>>15883382

>>15886634
Are these communist governments in the room with us right now?

>>15883382
having skills gives you the carrot and having a degree gives you leaves; it's true
but big leaves and big carrot are correlated, just like in real life. the cartoon is not reality: carrot plants with the genetics and nutrients to grow a big root system will also be more likely to grow more leaves
any gardener can tell you that there are exceptions to that rule, but in the aggregate it works

"Those who have to pay for education are better off without one."
-black science man

>>15886133
That's why the degree takes years to get, retard.

>>15888767
What the fuck? A degree is given BEFORE the residency, and then residency is three to seven more years of applying their knowledge.

>>15883754
The ai Watson was diagnosing better than actual doctors almost a decade ago. Your average general medicine family doctor is just a nurse in a labcoat. They aren't doing surgeries or draining lungs. They're burning warts and giving zoomers antidepressants. Your average MD is getting replaced not long after fast food workers.

>>15888877
Why didn't the camera person help her?

>>15888880
There's nobody there. The camera is set up on another lifting bench.

>>15888798
Your residency is not the first time you practice surgery, moron.

>>15883382
left: having a head full of useful, applicable, valuable knowledge

right: having a headful of useless memorized goyslop and gender pronouns

>>15889554
Thanks for explaining the meme to us. It was too high IQ for me to understand.

>>15883382
It means you were willingly subjected to their "education" for 16-20~ years.

Intelligence is ones gained skill and lost data.

>>15883485
If my company gave swim lessons. Everyone would just get tossed in the deep end. The nepotism hires would be given a pool noodle first. A few people that can swim would lift a couple off the bottom while a 1/4 of the managers would be at the edge kicking them back in. Lifeguards would be there to rescue the attractive women before they drown. That's that totally true. Niggers would be thrown in the swallow end where most will still drown anyways.

>>15883382
Its trades plebeibian cope.

People without degrees seethe so much. Its not hard. The complaints about expense are also bunk if your GPA is over 3.5. Crazy that people honestly believe they can learn more efficiently or throughly than an actual university program.

>>15883913
The no-degree people are mainly centered in "computer science", and these arguments stem from bootcamp viral marketing for programming code monkey jobs and cybersecurity scams.

They've learned a lesson in the last few years, but they still are only interested in the image rather than genuine interest in the field of study, which is why you have the Georgia tech online CS masters diploma mill. In their defense they argue that GT is a top ranked school so its impossible for their program to be shit. Most of these people have no interest in their work or field of study and only want what they perceive to be easy money. This easy money is somewhat true given the nature of the California tech bubble, that is a snakeoilesque company that is pumped and dumped with venture capital, and there was never a genuine intention of producing a eeal product. In that scenario, you do not need actual educated or capable people, only those that on paper look qualified(a masters in CS from Georgia tech!) to present the proper illusion to investors, put together a half assed product and sell the imaginary idea of it.

>>15888886
Did you just jump into the conversation two posts ago or something you dumb fuck? A resident MUST be accompanied by an attending physician, it's illegal otherwise. It's like saying a carpenter who has read a lot but only cut a few pieces of wood is proficient to build a house. Yeah right. The degree helps, but it doesn't "give you skills" per >>15883664. As >>15883727 said, their training extends beyond the degree and a minimum amount of surgeries are necessary to retain their license.

>>15890033
The point is a degree alone does not necessarily result in being skilled, which is why companies need to train their employees, and doctors need a residency.

>>15883458
>proof that you're willing to put in time and effort
So is any long term project. You could spend 3 years building a home server, visiting museums, competing in sports, doing military service, volunteering for a charity, etc. Why is a project run by professors more valuable than a project supervised by any other type of expert?

You are so true! I'm a BBA student and working in a newpaper company for part time. My job is kind of like data entry. Just a lot of typing and copy pasting. And yet 5 out of the 7 of my team members are already master graduates. One of the colleagues said he doesn't like to work with such juniors boys behind my back. But the funny thing is that he got this job because his father was a long time employee of this company, and I had experience in Computer operator job. This dude doesn't have 1% of the knowledge of computers that I have.

>>15890041
>Why is a project run by professors more valuable than a project supervised by any other type of expert?
Does it matter why? It's a fact that if you have the following applicants:
> 5 years MSc degree in CS
> 5 years perfecting his homesteaders
> 5 years competing in sports
> 5 years in the army
> 5 years volunteering for charity
One clearly has the best chances to get an IT job. That's just how it is.

>>15883382
You're supposed to do extracurricular activities to pick up skills while getting your degree. Students are failing to do this, and based what I saw when I went through school it's their own fault.

>>15890037
Are you retarded? You perform surgeries on cadavers, pigs, and training dummies before you ever start your residence. Your residency is not the first time you start developing skills. You develop those skills while getting your degree.

>>15890082
Why do you care what weird hallucination this schizo thinks about med school? I bet, he thinks that Fauci, the FDA and every climatologist on the planet are paid by the lizard people at Pfizer to hide the true shape of the earth.

>>15890082
>You develop those skills while getting your degree.
Yeah, like a kid in little league develops his skills, but they're still not capable of being a professional yet, hence it's illegal to perform a surgery without oversight until the residency is completed. Thanks for making my point.

>>15890203
>Why do you care what weird hallucination this schizo thinks about med school?
I would love for you to point out what I said that was factually wrong. Does residency exist? Does it have a reason for existing? I'm not the one who decided more training is needed after earning a degree in order to be a licensed surgeon. That was the entire point of the argument. A degree doesn't make someone accomplished. They still have to show skill at applying that knowledge, and cutting into a few dummies or cadavers is not nearly enough to develop that skill, hence by law residency is required. I never said anywhere in this entire thread that there was no purpose to a degree, only that a degree alone does not necessarily make someone skilled. Your post is really just an ad hominem based on what you imagine.

>>15890186
>Why do you care what weird hallucination this schizo thinks about med school?
I would love for you to point out what I said that was factually wrong. Does residency exist? Does it have a reason for existing? I'm not the one who decided more training is needed after earning a degree in order to be a licensed surgeon. That was the entire point of the argument. A degree doesn't make someone accomplished. They still have to show skill at applying that knowledge, and cutting into a few dummies or cadavers is not nearly enough to develop that skill, hence by law residency is required. I never said anywhere in this entire thread that there was no purpose to a degree, only that a degree alone does not necessarily make someone skilled. Your post is really just an ad hominem based on what you imagine.

>>15883382
100%

>>15890047
>Does it matter why?
Yes it does, because he may not be the best for the job. The guy who built a home server could know more about how a computer actually works. The guy who did sports may have a better understanding of morale and personal organisation. The army guy may have fixed so many engines and radios that his practical knowledge surpasses the graduate's. The charity worker may be a better manager due to a wealth of experience with different kinds of people.

>>15883483
>too dumb
that's racist, reported

If you are so smart and skilled, why don't you just get the degree? It should be really easy for you.

>>15890326
So the degree is just a signaling tool?

>>15890259
Time for vetting or giving an applicant a chance costs money. If a degree was a bad indicator for whether an applicant is worth the investment, companies wouldn't use degrees to determine which applicants they hire. The companies using suboptimal criteria would lose out on the good candidates and waste their money on the bad ones.

>>15890203
>You don't develop skills while getting a degree
>You develop skills while getting a degree and refine them afterwards
Pick one and only one, retard.

>>15890392
Kek, do you not know how to read?

>>15890203
>Yeah, like a kid in little league develops his skills, but they're still not capable of being a professional yet

Can the kid throw a ball? Can he swing a bat?
Does he know the basic rules? Does that make him capable of playing in the major leagues at 12 even though he has the basic skills? We both just said some skill is developed, yet it's agreed that it's in no way satisfactory, hence the residency. If you want to nitpick this then I can only assume you think they're good to go after getting a degree and the years spent in residency is totally unnecessary. If you don't think this, then I guess you agree with me and you just wanted to be a troll.

>>15884954
Modern universities can help you get early work experience in your field of interest though. It's better to get in a research group at a university for your field than just a 4 year experience at whatever will hire you out of high school.

>>15890461
You need to know the early base information before refining the skills, so you are the one proving the other anon's point as the degree is necessary to even get to the point of residency. Just like in little league, if you don't know the rules of the game you will never be able to gain the practice necessary for later as the ump will just throw you out for breaking all the rules

>>15885897
I will not be taking the meds and I WILL create more white children

>>15883382
If "skills" is interpreted to be literally just IQ, it's valid.

Except that's not what it means. It's implying that persons too low poor *and* low IQ to obtain a degree can supersede those with the wealth or intelligence to obtain one, which is patently false.

>>15883382
The eloquence of gras.

>>15891027
>so you are the one proving the other anon's point as the degree is necessary
See >>15890220. I'll reiterate, "I never said anywhere in this entire thread that there was no purpose to a degree, only that a degree alone does not necessarily make someone skilled."

>>15883382
It reminds me of my grandma telling her doctor she knew better what medications she needed to treat her kek.

>>15890331
If companies knew what they were doing, we wouldn't lose pretty much all industry to Asia.

>>15890392
I wpuldn't even say it's like little league, a college doesn't give you any skills at all. That isn't what colleges do.
Who would you pick to play at your wedding?
1. A guy who studied musical theory for 6 years, and maybe held a guitar a couple of times?
2. A guy who plays in a local bands that plays songs of major bands, but has no education?

>>15890392
I wouldn't even say it's like little league, a college doesn't give you any skills at all. That isn't what colleges do.
Who would you pick to play at your wedding?
1. A guy who studied musical theory for 6 years, and maybe held a guitar a couple of times?
2. A guy who plays in a local band that plays songs of major bands, but has no education?

>>15891398
>Who would you pick to play at your wedding?
You're right, I'll get my next flu shot from a heroin addict and not from a doctor.

>>15891402
>next flu shot
The irony.

>>15891404
Explain why this is ironic?

>>15891402
You're avoiding the question.

>>15891421
You're right, I am.

>>15891425
Why?
And why do you keep reverting to medicine when you know that it's an exception?

>>15891433
Why am I ignoring a question which if two made-up musicians I'd choose for my wedding? Are you seriously asking me?

>>15890461
Do you, retard? You can't pretend that the only thing that matters is the residency. If it were then anyone should be able to go through just the residency for all of their training. The reality is that it takes years of training while they get their degree before they have the skills to work at a hospital during their residency.

>>15891066
By definition acquiring a degree does make you skilled. You learn skills while you get your degree. That's literally the point.

>>15891452
If you don't get why I'm asking then you are too mentally challenged to participate in this debate.

If you want to play stupid, the appropriate response is to treat you as a retard.

>>15891398
How about the guy who got a degree in classical guitar, retard? When you pick fields that are unrelated to the skills you're demanding then obviously those people aren't likely to have those skills.

>Who would you rather have fix your plumbing, a materials scientist or a plumber?

>>15891470
Oh I completely understand why you're asking. That's actually the reason I'm not going to let you derail the conversation by talking about wedding music.

>>15891473
>How about the guy who got a degree in classical guitar, retard?
That's the exact reason why I used it, as it makes it obvious how stupid your opinion is. As it should be obvious to anybody who isn't retarded that practical training is necesaary, and studying alone is completely uselsess. That is, unless you pretend to be retarded. And it is necessary to treat you as too stupid to debate, because you could derail any debate by pretending that you just don't understand the other side's arguments.

Is anyone here really under the impression that someone with a guitar in classical guitar isn't an amazing musician? Just to get accepted into university to study classical guitar, you must be very good. Certainly better than your average wedding gig.
I've lost the overview of who's arguing for what, but for music instruments, a degree is a certificate for skill. I've played various music instruments for more than 15 years, I could play at a wedding with some practice, but I'm far from a good musician. There's no way I could even start studying music. Even the acceptance letter is a certificate that someone is better than me.

>>15883382
People with no degrees kill themselves

>>15891518

>>15891536
I wasn't any of the other anons, so I actually don't know in which direction this "music degree" argument was made. Did people imply that a music degree implies skills or that it means someone has no practical skills?

>>15891552
fuck off retard

>>15891558
Don't be so rude. I'm not one of the "my experience in retail is worth more than your PhD" retards.

>>15891566
I don't get it. What's a PhD? Does it mean you are a doctor? Like doctor of plants, for example?

We can both play this game.

>>15891575
What game? I'm not playing a game, I was sharing my personal experience of playing music for many years and reminding that studying music isn't about reading and writing theoretical essays, you actually need to be fucking good at your instrument. Something that's not true for most other subjects. In maths you literally start at defining 0, + and -. Then you move on to define 1 and multiplication, division etc. You start at absolutely zero and you need no prior skills.

>>15891581
>studying music isn't about reading and writing theoretical essays, you actually need to be fucking good at your instrument. Something that's not true for most other subjects.

Exactly. That was my point. So you end up with no skills.

>>15891591
Then why the fuck were you talking about musicians in the first place?

Also, no. Your logic is flawed. Just because you don't need skills to get INTO university doesn't mean you don't develop any skills in the 5 years you spend there.

>>15891592
Because it's something that most people should be able to comprehend.

It has been used before: http://worrydream.com/refs/Lockhart-MathematiciansLament.pdf

>>15891627
>it's something that most people should be able to comprehend.
Well, if we take the musician as the common denominator, then the message I take from this is that a degree is a proof of world-class skill.

>>15891592
NTA but holy hell. Do you have a sense of proportion? You know how spending time, money and effort compares to what you get in return? Imagine studying astronomy and the market forcing you to work as an optimizer of retail logistics and a person like you commenting: well at least you got some math and programming skills to help you with that job now good luck with ANOTHER 5 years of training to learn the specifics of the retail work environment after TWENTY YEARS of school. Are you crazy? To even make excuses for such swindle...
...thanks Mario but the princess is in another castle. That's what the whole society is about. You're always lacking something so you need to do more. I'm tired of this bullshit. In b4:
>waaah!
No u kys.

>>15891640
You are mentally ill.

This only applies to people who don't need any practical training. It is almost impossible for someone to acquire biological or chemical lab skills without a degree.

Programmers, mathematicians, and even physicists can be self-taught. Not biologists or chemists.

>>15891748
This is due in large part to people taking science too seriously. The image of the mad scientist working on dangerous chemicals with a chance of blowing himself up is mostly a media thing to keep science in the good graces of less intelligent but important people

It costs money to run all those experiments and do science so we have to hype it up even if it's mostly writing reports

>>15883382
Things that are true:
>Employer's pay significantly more for a diploma than 3.75 years of school. Employer's care if you finish the degree; they don't care about what you learned.
>Getting a degree will raise your income, but education has no discernible effect on GDP. Your degree helps you divert money to yourself, not produce more value.
Really makes you think.

>>15891748
There's a DIY genetic engineering culture. There are maker space centrifuges. Home chemistry still exists despite the war on drugs trying to outlaw glassware. You can buy compounds online and manufacture most of what you can't buy directly.

>>15891683
Coping dropout detected.

>>15891748
>physicists don't need lab training
Anon, I--

>>15891462
>By definition acquiring a degree does make you skilled.
That isn't true at all. It depends on the degree, the school, the student, etc. There really are people who have college degrees who don't seem to be skilled at anything. One could argue a person who apprentices in a trade has more skill than a lot of people who earn degrees. So I guess if you want to literally say they learned something, no matter how minute, then sure, but did they something significant and useful? That's up for debate.

>>15891458
>You can't pretend that the only thing that matters is the residency.
You're getting to the point where you have to make things up in your head to try to win the argument. Unless you can quote where I said that, then don't bother with another reply.

>>15892017
Cope harder, retard. All you've done this entire thread is make shit up and move goal posts. The fact of the matter is that you develop skills while getting your degree. If you didn't then degrees wouldn't be necessary.

Is math a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is programming a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is engineering a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is chemical synthesis a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is growing cultures under sterile conditions a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is agronomy a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is medical care a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Are forensics a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is criminology a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is psychoanalysis a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is accurately modeling the motion of celestial bodies a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is building economic models a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is practicing law a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is operating a business lawfully a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is technical writing a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is writing music a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.
Is playing music a skill? You learn it while you get the relevant degree.

>>15892281
First of all, you didn't point out where I said residency is all that matters. I guess you think if you ignore what I asked, you won't look like a liar?

Second of all, about half of what you listed is available through certifications and doesn't require a degree, so it seems you're making the point that a college degree is not superior in a lot of ways? What about trades?

I'll also reiterate: >>15890461 "We both just said some skill is developed, yet it's agreed that it's in no way satisfactory, hence the residency. If you want to nitpick this then I can only assume you think they're good to go after getting a degree and the years spent in residency is totally unnecessary."

So yet again, I'll ask, do you think 12-year-old Bobby deserves to be in the major leagues because he can throw a baseball? Do you think the medical school graduate should be legally able to jump into unsupervised surgeries right away even though he/she hasn't cut open an actual living human?

>>15892455
A certification is a type of degree, you mouth breathing retard. All you have is goal post moving and cope.

>>15892637
>A certification is a type of degree
You're a fucking dumb ass.

https://www.snhu.edu/about-us/newsroom/education/certificates-vs-degree
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/certificate-vs-degree
https://www.columbiasouthern.edu/blog/blog-articles/2020/july/certificate-vs-degree/
https://articles.outlier.org/certificate-vs-degree

I can't find a single website that describes a certification as a type of degree. Feel free to find your own and post it here.

Neither degrees or professional licenses matter.
>Daniel Morgan pretended to be a lawyer for 7 years. He won multiple acquittals, some for murder. After getting caught, he assumed a fake name in DC. Opposing corporate lawyers, fearful of his success, investigated him to see if they could discredit him. They did.
>Bob Harris was a renowned meteorologist with no degrees.
>Barry Allan Vincour, a prior army medic, flunked out of pre-med, so he faked his grades, got a non-MD research fellowship at a Cleveland hospital, coauthored a handbook of critical care, and had national recognition for his research of hyperammonemia. After three years working at University of California Medical Center, he was encouraged to apply for a faculty position. Routine processing of his application exposed him.

>>15883382
Having skills means knowing lots of the technicalities, but having degree... Means being able to do coursework or tasks assigned by authority. Which, my previous job prefers the latter.

>>15892281
If a degree is really is that useful then why do employers of companies/government require further experience or job that is outside the degree?

>>15892281
>The fact of the matter is that you develop skills while getting your degree. If you didn't then degrees wouldn't be necessary.
You literally have schizophrenia. These defects in logical thinking are extremely typical.

>>15893622
Degreeless cope turning into gaslighting.

>>15883727
>That's why doctors train an additional four years and surgeons lose their license if they don't perform at least a few hundred surgeries of a particular type a year.
Actually that's just a statist racket to subdue surgeons, not with your health in mind

>>15893629
>If you didn't develop skills while getting a degree, then degrees wouldn't be necessary.
>Degrees are necesary
>therefore, you develop skills while gettimg a degree.
It isn't literally thought derailment, more like a thought that begins to roll in the reverse direction.

It's neet cope. Having a degree doesn't give you any skills you couldn't get somewhere else but it does mean you have enough discipline to sit your ass down for a couple of years and actually learn said skills. The Venn diagram of people with no degrees and people with no skills is a circle.

>>15892941
>a few counterexamples magically make the pattern disappear
If someone has a college degree, they are more likely to be skilled than someone without. Other factors also exist which may change the balance, but that doesn't mean that the degree doesn't have an effect. If you know somebody who smoked but didn't get lung cancer, does that mean smoking is harmless?

>>15883382
>Have interesting software project and start actually working on it
>Get told to do a planning document and presentation
>Its shit so I get mediocre grades even though they haven't actually seen my project yet
I regret a little going to university, I could learn to code from anywhere and it feels like a little bit of a waste, but I do get connections.

>>15894528
>If someone has a college degree, they are more likely to be skilled than someone without.
Do you have any data to back it up?

>>15894528
Smoking is statistically harmless for anyone who quits smoking before they're about 40 years old

>>15894528
That depends on what they have to show for their degree

>>15894558
They poison tobacco with polonium. It isn't natural.

Oh no no no, degree sisters.

Imagine going 100k into debt to take university courses on critical race theory and intersectional feminism ... and suddenly some uneducated dumbfuck gets the job instead just because he knows how to code. This is unfair!

>>15887462
lol

>>15895119
>some uneducated dumbfuck gets the job instead just because he knows how to code.
If he knows how to program properly, he isn't uneducated. Anyone who goes into debt for a degree is an idiot that doesn't belong in university.

>>15894528
Why would you need to filter by degree when you can filter by standardized test?

>>15893482
>If a degree is really is that useful then why do employers of companies/government require further experience or job that is outside the degree?
Because they want to generate a need for interns to add to their slave labor pool.

>Just work for free for a few years and we'll totally give you a job

>>15895661
> for some job positions
Yeah I don't give a shit. Those are probably pencil pusher jobs.

>>15895709
>Yeah I don't give a shit.

I work as an environmental scientist. It's literally illegal to do my job without a degree.

>>15883382
>A discussion between people not directly paid to obtain degrees
cute

>>15896857
>environmental scientist
Did you bullshit last week?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl4VD8uvgec

>>15896857
telling manipulative lies without a loicense is still perfectly legal

>>15883458
This.
Universities have been reduced to "certificate of approval" from an institution, which you pay for both in money and putting down some work on your grades. Employers therefore expect it as a sort-of pre-filter in their recruiting process.
It doesn't even have to be in the same field, since it's just "certificate of being somewhat intelligent and hardworking". I work as a software developer, which I have zero educational background in. I just taught myself C++ and got a job.
For some regular jobs, like software development, you could experience on the side without ever going to university. But you risk ending up in the reject pile just because it's expected that you go to university.

>>15894582
Technically the poisoning part is accidental. The real crime is the price on new pre-owned land at low low prices

>>15897683
What are you talking about?

>>15897688
Not them but during nuclear testing way back in the 50s they had a lot of radioactively polluted land and found out that tobacco plant pulled radio isotopes from the soil and decontaminated it.
Well some (((people))) had bright idea to use those plants and basically mass produce cigarettes,some of those lands are still used in modern tobacco production for cigarettes even today,thus cancer.

>>15898035
>some of those lands are still used in modern tobacco production for cigarettes even today,thus cancer.
Where?

>>15898041
Overlay that map with nuclear testing and find out for yourself.
I dont smoke or care.

>>15898051
I did. I really don't see an overlap.

>>15898059
get prescription glasses

>>15898035
No, that's bullshit. Polonium is short lived.

>>15898192
125 years isn't that short.

>>15898197
138 days. You're looking at the wrong isotope.

>>15897674
>It doesn't even have to be in the same field, since it's just "certificate of being somewhat intelligent and hardworking".
Yup, that's exactly what the U.S. government does. A degree in anything is one of the few requirements, it doesn't matter if the degree is relevant to what you're applying, so long as they think you'll be able to learn the position.

>>15898226
>n-no, y-you're looking at the wrong isotope
Who says it is the wrong one?

>>15898284
well I do, because it's specifically polonium 210, not the 209 that you're looking at.

>>15898298
>>15898284
>>15898257
>>15898226
>>15898197
>>15898192
>>15898078
>>15898059
>>15898051
>>15898041
>>15898035
Tobacco is radioactive because it's an accumulator of radium. Not because of nuclear testing. You can grow it anywhere in any soil and it will take up the naturally occuring radium in the soil.

>>15883490
Why must envious retards drag everyone down?

>>15883382
The degree havers can survive on their own because they have no useful or valuable skills, so they have to leech off the productive people to survive.

lmao, im a network eng making 100k/yr and I didnt even bother to check if I graduated HS. Fucking lol even.

>>15898883
And I was telling people a decade ago in HS that bachelors degrees wuld be worthless. The only thing that ever got me a raise was exp and I transitioned to a new role.

>>15898257
It used to be that the government psychologically screened its applicants through a number of recruitment processes and paid higher education for those worth the trouble as part of their incentive/loyalty package. No wonder the system is falling apart.

>>15892941
>Neither degrees or professional licenses matter.
This is true, but red tape always forces it to be a necessity for anything that allows you any mobility and power like Law, Medicine, and Engineering.

>>15883382
100000% true for business. If you're quite intelligent then business school is such a waste of time, go into engineering or something.

>>15898900
Funny how the Electrical Codes that electricians follow are written by engineers.

Funny how all the plumbing, HVAC, car, manufacturing, aerospace, and energy tech's work is all created and explained by engineers.

Both are crucial, but if you've the aptitude for engineering, why on Earth would you shoot yourself in the foot by doing trades work?

>>15899113
Not everyone has an aptitude or appetite to suck dick.

>>15898910
I think there's a shortage of employees, so they'll take what they can get for some positions. Other positions are still highly contested, so much so that a lot of people have to deal with getting turned down. Still, once you're in it's nearly impossibly to get fired, and they will fund an accelerated master's degree in the relevant field.

>>15899122
The only reason you don’t need a degree is because what you do has zero impact on the wellbeing of human civilization at large. Doctors and Engineers need to prove some minimum level of knowledge or else entire buildings collapse or someone dies on an operating table. These things still happen of course, but your memory and/or knowledge of history is terrible if you don’t know how cataclysmic it was letting uncredentialed people form the back bone of civilization.

Being a code monkey or some “studies” major doesn’t warrant college because you aren’t legally obliged to be educated. The only degrees that matter are medicine, law, and engineering. Full stop.

>>15899205
>or someone dies on an operating table.
that happens constantly, medical error is currently the leading cause of death in america

>>15898351
No it won't. There are no detectable polonium levels in pretty much anything else, inlcluding living tobacco plants.

>>15899884
It's not polonium, retard. It's radium which is naturally occuring and in all soil.

>>15900228
>is naturally occuring and in all soil.
thats why we've evolved natural immunity to it by now

>>15883382
Extremely. I would even go so far as to say that if someone does "science" as a job that gains a paycheck they under NO circumstances can be trusted for ANY scientific opinion. Only people who do science as a hobby can be trusted because they do it for the love of the pursuit and are actually looking for the truth.

>>15884626
That's why you don't work for these foolish cocksuckers. The job will be hell anyway.

>>15901071
You clearly don't understand what an accumulator is and have no concept of how much radiation is harmful. Tobacco accumulates radium which means that radium is more concentrated in the tobacco than it is in the soil. It's still a very small amount of radiation that won't hurt you. For this reason cloud chambers sold to children half a century ago would encourage them to have their father blow tobacco smoke into the chamber because they need a small amount of radiation to function.

>>15899205
Lawyers become bad people because they represent bad people.

>>15899113
>Both are crucial, but if you've the aptitude for engineering, why on Earth would you shoot yourself in the foot by doing trades work?
it's not necessarily shooting yourself in the foot. depending on when and where you are, the trades are sometimes a better choice if you know what to expect and what you want out of it
i've unironically met top law school grads move to become code monkeys instead. they spent their entire life reaching the top of their field and decided it wasn't worth it compared to doing web development

>>15883382

Botanyfag here.

I have a degree (masters), and I learned more on how plants function and grow from hanging out with recreational potheads than anything I did in school.

You get lab exercises in a degree program, sure. But unless ypu actually commit to growing and keeping plants, the average degree holder knows less than youtubers who just like plants.

>>15902093
growing in DWC with custom nutrient formulas will really learn you a thing or two about whats what, so will corralling recessive genes and making hybrids from solid genetic and then growing out the resulting new seed stock. The rose growing crowd is worth getting knowing too, they're less schizo that potheads and they have sports in their gene pools, the rose people smell better too. apple growers are the kings of grafts

>>15887462
/thread

>>15901704
That seems extremely unrealistic, considering how uncommon it is in the first place, and that it hasn't been found anywhere else except in dried tobacco.


Accumulators accumulate the elements they need. While it isn't impossible that yobacco needs radium, it seems unrealistic. And why is it polonium 210 specifically?

>>15902093
>>15902114
My plants keep acting funny under LEDs. I've read that ventilation is what causes tip burn, but I'm not growing lettuce so it looks different. I'm growing beans which tend to lose their lower leaves as soon as new ones put on. The tomato is doing the same thing, but also developing visible tiny "bubbles" on the leaves that don't look good. Will just installing a fan correct this?

>>15902419
*lack of ventilation

>>15902419
yeah, plants behave weirdly under LEDs because they're getting the full dose of photosynthetic radiation without getting the full dose of other radiation like the would from a broadband lamp or the sun, as a result the plants don't draw moisture from the soil as quickly because moisture isn't being pulled out of them by the non-photosynthetic radiation, so extra fans are helpful.

>>15902164
It's not polonium you, flaming retard. It's radium. Do you think radium is just anything radioactive? It's its own element, moron.

>considering how uncommon it is in the first place
Radium is found in all soils. You understand that the amount of radiation in tobacco is very small, right? You aren't making a reactor rod out of tobacco stems.

>Accumulators accumulate the elements they need.
Not necessarily. Plants accumulate all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes for defense such as prairie fire accumulating selenium in its leaves.

Do you know how to use google? Why don't you type in "why is tobacco radioactive" and see what comes up?

>>15902459
Polonium has not been found anywhere, except in drued tobacco. If it is radium that gets accumulated, why is it polonium that gets detected, and not all the other isotopes in the chain?

>>15902459
Polonium has not been found anywhere, except in dried tobacco. If it is radium that gets accumulated, why is it polonium that gets detected, and not all the other isotopes in the chain?

>>15902489
It's not polonium, retard. Why is this such a hard concept for you? Polonium is not what makes tobacco radioactive. Tobacco does not accumulate polonium. How many times were you dropped on your head as a child?

>>15902530
Yes it is. It's polonium 210.

>>15902620
No it's not, moron. It's radium. Do you understand what radium is? It's a radioactive element that's found in all soil. Tobacco accumulates it.

>>15902679
The radioactive elements found in tobacco are polonium 210 and lead 210.

>>15902722
Nonsense, retard. It's clear that you don't even understand basic chemistry. There is no such thing as lead 210. That would be lead with 128 extra neutrons which does not exist.

Why don't you try to provide a source for polonium in tobacco? I'll tell you right now that no such source exists and that the radioactive element in tobacco is radium.

>>15902734
Not agreeing with the other anon, I actually don't know what radioisotopes can be found in tobacco. However,
>There is no such thing as lead 210
Why would you say such a stupid thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_lead

>>15902764
Maybe Elon secretly bought 4chan, and unleashed his AI on it. It's special by being disrespectful, which makes few people suspect AI.

>>15902919
That would explain so much.

>>15902764
Do you know what "trace" means in this context? It means that functionally no lead in existence is lead 210.

>>15903207
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/smoking.htm
Sounds like you don't trust the experts.

>>15903213
https://www.epa.gov/radtown/radioactivity-tobacco
>The fertilizers that tobacco farmers use to increase the size of their tobacco crops contain the naturally-occurring radionuclide radium and its decay products. As the plant grows, the radon from fertilizer, along with naturally-occurring radon in surrounding soil and rocks, transfer into and on the plant and are later included in tobacco products made from these plants.

It takes up radium, moron. Moreover any polonium in tobacco is from radon that was taken up.
>Radon’s decay product, polonium-210, carries the most risk.

>>15903313
So is Lead-210 still made up, schizo?

>>15903313
>epa.gov
a government propaganda outlet, not a valid outlet for true scientific information.

>i come to 4chan.org to spam it with propaganda from the federal government
why? do you consider that fun or are you a paid propagandist?

>>15903319
It's not made up, it's just functionally non-existent. Look up the isotope ratio and the half life.

>>15903981
You're just mad that you got caught making shit up on the internet. Tobacco does not take up polonium and nuclear testing is not why it's radioactive.

>>15904363
>it's just functionally non-existent. Look up the isotope ratio and the half life.
We've come quite a long way from
>There is no such thing as lead 210. That would be lead with 128 extra neutrons which does not exist.
Apologize.

>>15904451
It's not my fault your ignorant ass doesn't know how isotopes or nuclear decay works. You should have learned that in high school.

How are you going to get training in any of the highest earning fields without a degree?

>>15904493
Ladies and gentlemen, this is what a retard without a degree looks like.

>>15883382
>How true is this meme?
A meme created by right-wing and far-right baby boomers who are literally jealous that those younger than them have access to a quality education.

It's also a meme used by scammers who themselves have had access to a good education but want to take advantage of a naive, uneducated public by encouraging the ignorance of others.

>>15904493
Are you still the one who wrote
>There is no such thing as lead 210. That would be lead with 128 extra neutrons which does not exist.

>>15904666
Are you still the one who wrote
>during nuclear testing way back in the 50s they had a lot of radioactively polluted land and found out that tobacco plant pulled radio isotopes from the soil and decontaminated it.
>Well some (((people))) had bright idea to use those plants and basically mass produce cigarettes,some of those lands are still used in modern tobacco production for cigarettes even today,thus cancer.

>>15904854
No, that was actually someone else. I was the one admitting
>I actually don't know what radioisotopes can be found in tobacco
I try not to talk about stuff I don't understand, unlike you.

>>15903981
I get paid to shill lies from the government on 4chan, shareblue pays me

>>15904363
>it's just functionally non-existent.
So is the CDC lying, or are you talking out of your ass?

>>15905331
how much?

>>15905965
$14/hr is the current starting rate, but i get $16 cause i've been at it a few years

>>15883641
every person I've seen approach programming in a "mathematical way" has made a bigger mess than poojeets

>>15884626
theres no jobs that require a degree outside academia and government work, real jobs require experience and a history of demonstrable ability

You're right. The more people that don't go to college the better. I have a masters because I'm a stupid faggot. You are smart and badass, please don't go and wate your time. Be a plumber or an electrician that's badass.

>>15883483
Zuck speaks fluently Latin and Ancient Greek.

>>15904916
>>15905336
The irony of these posts. Go back and get.yoyr GED

>>15909877
also hebrew

>>15902093
The length of a semester isn't long enough to study most plants in terms of doing actual experiments that involve growing from seed to harvest.

>>15909877
Kinda explains his shitty Roman haircut.

>>15906990
you make more than most people with masters degrees do

>>15911228
imagine being an ag science student and you're out of school all summer during the most important part of the agricultural season

>>15908709
>The more people that don't go to college the better.
Well yeah, that is true. The meaning of a degree has been watered down, and the job market has been flooded by people with degrees who are still basically incompetent, but it doesn't stop them from being competition for open positions. Meanwhile the amount of competition for trade jobs is declining.

>>15914054
>Meanwhile the amount of competition for trade jobs is declining.
Thats why truck drivers earn more than university professors these days, 20 years ago truck drivers only made about 2/3 the professors' wage.

Alright, i do this rarely but I'll do this once for you retards. Getting a degree or anything which exists as information is a spectrum. NO im not talking gay/autism shit im not gay/nigger yadi yada just read the whole post before typing some retard shit.

Spectrum, in the sense that anything can be anything and can also not be it. So someone can go to university, do well on his tests, AND be enough interested and invested TO ALSO learn skills within in or outside university hours while still getting his degree. So we establish that it is possible for a person going to uni TO ACQUIRE skills. Then there is the other end of the spectrum. A random nigger who just went in and didn't give a fuck, only to pass his classes and smoke pot outside of his uni hours and never learn other jack plus forgetting everything after the test and never trying to apply what he learned in uni. That guy also got his degree, same as the first person BUT HE DIDN'T ACQUIRE any skills. So, it turns out, both statements can be true, AT THE SAME TIME. Also, this follows that there will be people at 50%, 20%, 70% of this spectrum, that acquired SOME skills, not all like the first guy who is at 100% skills and not like the second guy who is at 0% skills.

Spectrum theory (not spectral theory from math) is actually very interesting and I encourage people to try to understand this concept, that things aren't just set in stone from the beginning, but have to be looked at a different perspective, especially abstract problems.

>>15914577
writingtoIQ.com says your IQ is only 106 so I didn't read your post

>>15914656
>>just read the whole post before typing some retard shit.
>15914656

well, that answers why i dont answer on 4chan. sad, really.

>>15885169
>I suffer in my western tutorial country

>>15914577
Enrolling is black or white. Finishing part of a program is worse than not starting it.

>>15914656
Low IQs are incapable of communicating succinctly, so most wall of text posts will tend to score low on the IQ scale

>>15916192
That's a high IQ problem.

Degrees do give people experience. Good luck getting prior experience if you want to do PCR or HPLC or something

>>15887462
you, i like you

>>15916626
PCR tests are fake af

>>15918036
They are, its long since been proved that the scientific community can't be trusted to use the technique honestly

>>15890041
>why should we hire you
>I have a degree
>check transcript
>oh cool he does

vs

>why should we hire you
>I went to a bunch of museums
>...

>>15891377
Asian societies value academics/degrees even more than the west does.

>>15918667
That's a very recent thing, that didn't yet affect those responsible for their boom. Mao was still anti education.

skills+degree > skills-degree

>>15918667

>>15918661
>why should we hire you
>I was in the military, so I have anger issues and PTSD

>>15919054
Today on "correlation means causation"

>>15918667
Asian societies are retarded, they'd still be the 3rd world without western help, China was economically on par with subsaharan Africa 30 years ago

>>15919288
No. Education is a waste of time, it at best restricts people from working. People either must waste years of their time, or are banned from working a productive job.

>>15920686
Dropout cope just like most of this thread

>>15920729
Not a dropout cope. The industry is gone, the society has disintegrated. The banks and the governments are vigorously fighting to hide that the western economies are crashing. (Cars were the last straw for several European countries, which is now gone with chinese imports becoming legal)

>>15920733
>the industry is gone
Which industry? If anything, the industry in which rich countries bussed in millions of people, gave them 2 weeks of welding training and had them work in a factory is gone.
You are right that the car industry is declining but that’s what you could do without a degree. If you want an economy where the engineers and thinkers are in your country and the shit gets built by muscle abroad, then education is more important than ever.

>>15883382
>How true is this meme?
How do you prove to someone else that you have skills?

>>15920832
Judging by what OP posted here, he cannot prove his skills with a degree :^)

>>15920763
>Which industry?
All of them.
>If you want an economy where the engineers and thinkers are in your country
And how do you imagine specifically it is going to work? I don't think you understand how stupid it is. You think that other countries will feed us and supply us with everything? Why would they do it? We have nothing to export back anymore.

>>15920763
>If you want an economy where the engineers and thinkers are in your country and the shit gets built by muscle abroad
This model is completely outdated. Bellyaching about reform is ironically part of what is devaluing education.

>>15920870
>Designed by Apple in California, made in China
Guess which part requires the degrees

>>15920923
What’s the non-outdated approach? Openin local sweatshops again?

>>15920945
>>>/1980/
Educated people grow on trees. They can come from anywhere. Engineering is as fungible as manufacturing these day.

>>15920948
You mean that the US just imports educated people from India? How’s that sustainable?

>>15920953
Or farms out work to foreign engineering firms and then has someone in the US sight off on the design, see 737 MAX

>>15920953
Nerd

>>15920954
Seems to work out great.

>>15920956
Thank you for your valuable contribution.

>>15920972
Not for the American public or Boeing for that matter

>>15920977
That was sarcasm.

>>15920980
People here are so adamantly retarded I can't even tell sometimes

>>15920977
Should’ve hired engineers instead of managers.

>>15920942
Probably neither, and the value of the latter vastly outweighs the former, as without the avility to manufacture it, you're only design science fiction. It has turned into a literal cleptocracy, where the world has to accept the value of imaginary goods, in exchange for not getting invaded.

>>15920942
Probably neither, and the value of the latter vastly outweighs the former, as without the ability to manufacture it, you could only design science fiction. It has turned into a literal cleptocracy, where the world has to accept the value of imaginary goods, in exchange for not getting invaded.

>>15920986
>the value of screwing things together vastly outweighs designing electrical components and circuits
>the state of /sci/

>>15920998
Absolutely. Henry Ford didn't revolutionarize the car industry because he could design a car, but because he could mass produce it.

>>15921022
He did it because it allowed him to get rich at the cost of his workers. You’re arguing that you want to be a proud drone for a capitalist.

>>15883659
Fuck off with this meme already kek. I haven't had a single semester where I didn't have multiple math heavy modules (Germany).

>>15921039
Lmfao. A friend who studied CS used to complain the same to me. The worst was stuff needed for robotics which was like half of linalg 1. I really love him, but he sucks at math.

>>15921037
He was known for paying his employees well.

>>15921044
We aren't balls deep like mathematicians, but we can surely do basic maths/proofs. Your claim was
>CS majors don't even do mathematics
which is horseshit. Especially for those specialized in algos going beyond undergrad.

>>15921057
> Your claim was
NTA

>>15921057
yes but not real mathematics

not the mathematics for adults

>>15921093
>>15921187
Anons, anyone who can pass a STEM curriculum, has the potential to learn your "adult" maths.

We're all useless fags, unless a theory we developed is etched in stone for eons to come. Only that has true worth.

>>15920942
Why don't you build a saturn V and land on the Moon again?