/sci/ - Science & Math

Elon hasn't tweeted in 4 days. Is he alright??
>mfw

July 7 is going to be a good day.

>>14601801
Static fire soon.

what are the odds the starship launch will be scrubbed at <t-1day? I'm planning on driving down whenever it ends up launching

>>14601812
100%. They'll want as many data points as possible so they'll rehearse few times before launch of full stack for sure.

>>14601812
SpaceX has their shit together. I think they'll hype it up like it got for the 2018 falcon heavy car lift.

Are plasma magnet sails a meme? they sound too good to be true.
Moving around the solar system with no onboard reaction mass makes a lot of space 'bulk hauling' a lot more feasible, provided you are happy to wait (think moving asteroids and comets around).

>>14601794
>July 7 0000 EDT - SpaceX - Falcon 9 - 39A, Florida - Cargo Dragon 2, CRS-2, 25th commercial resupply to the ISS.
>July 7 0713 EDT - Arianespace - Vega C - French Guiana - Debut flight, LARES-2 magnetic sensing satellite.
>July 7 1830 EDT - SpaceX - Falcon 9 - SLC-40, Florida - Starlink 4-21.
>July 7 2000 EDT - SpaceX - Falcon 9 - VSFB, California - Starlink 3-1.
Holy fuck, new world record if all 4 launch?

>>14601823
3 in single day for SpaceX, if they launch that.

We just had 3 in 3 days few days ago too. SpaceX is steadying towards a fast paced launch rate.

There is no need for an SLS block 2. In truth there will be only one SLS. Perfected, it is the final solution invalidating all others for heavy grift.(there are better options for tax dollar - Florida - district transit tho)

>>14601794
FTS Archive
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KCJBL632oieD1r6JOh_5Eg9NTcf_-hH8?usp=sharing

Finally all 93 new stamps have been dated and arranged. New countries include Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Mongolia, Kampuchea, Vietnam, Burundi, Djibouti, Guinea-Bissau, Paraguay, Rwanda, Cuba, Panama, Venezuela, and the Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen. Pre-existing countries also got lots of new stamps.
Countries have also been arranged to 6 parts of the world, with states of USSR having its own category.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JnTpiGNU9cnzpYZ_CiAtFVpT_kyexUy-?usp=sharing

>>14601889
There's an interesting case with Hungary, they've made stamps from either side of the space race even long before the ASTP.

>>14601899
Also if anyone can recognize the Gemini astronaut on this Yemeni stamp I'd like to have it named properly

>>14601903
Looks like John Young.

>>14601906
I guess it does look like John the most from all Gemini astronauts
It confuses me why it's just John Young, not Gus Grissom or Michael Collins with him

>>14601917
it's probably from gemini 3 since that got by far the most media attention of any of the gemini missions. i'd guess that either grissom got his own stamp for the mission or they already had made a grissom stamp for liberty bell 7 so they didn't want to do him again.

Nuclear rockets.

>>14601923
Seems like it, though this set is incredibly difficult to find online. All I found was this 400x262 image of someone selling a set on PostBeeld

>>14601936
What’s the point of nuclear thermal rockets if aero capture and chemical are better? Like they talk about 3 month transits, but the vehicle is fuckhuge because it uses hydrogen and needs to fire engines to slow down at mars.
You’re honestly better off with something like starship.

>>14601889
Regarding the unidentified satellite, it could be included somewhere here if it was reprinted in a different country. A good resource nonetheless.
https://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/dev/hillger/Kosmos.htm
https://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/dev/hillger/interkosmos.htm
>>14601936
Take your meds already, Opposition Schizo.

>>14601946
>if aero capture and chemical are better?

"If" being the key word.

>>14601948
I doubt it's a soviet satellite due to the rectangular satellite bus. Likely a western commsat

>>14601960
They are. You don’t need a 5 km/s burn your slow down at Mars orbit. Insertion is free using the atmosphere.
Anyways nuclear is a meme at least until we can make it more “versatile.”

>>14601821
The catch is you can't tack into the solar wind with a single plasma magnet so you need an array of several, kilometers apart from your payload and each other, to move sunward even slowly by adjusting the sail angle.

>>14602001
That narrows it down, is this it? Intelsat 5, nine of them were launched between 1980 and 1984.
>>14601946
A 3-4 month long transfer to Mars is achievable with chemical propulsion, even without a vacuum optimized booster to give more delta-v to a fueled Starship or refueling in a higher orbit like LDHEO since the delta-v saved from direct entry is so great. However you could instead increase the payload so shorter transits aren't necessarily the best, especially if a quick free-return is desirable. The rule of thumb should be 'if you need less than 20 km/s of delta-v and you're not constrained to a single launch, chemical is easier and cheaper', with the exception of solar electric propulsion in some cases like higher delta-v tugs moving payloads off rideshare launches, interplanetary probes, and most satellites, particularly those going GEO.

I'll shut up now, I just feel obliged to deboonk the schizo when he posts the same shit in every thread. Maybe I'm going crazy as well.

Blogpost but let me explain.

In 1990, Mars Direct was made as a way to make Mars achievable. Before then, Mars missions used massive vehicles with nuclear engines and requiring dozens of launches to complete. Naturally, this would’ve never happened.

This came to head in 1990 when NASA published a 90 day report on the future of human spaceflight. It stated that setting up a manned base on the Moon and Mars would require $450 billion. This was shot down in Congress ASAP.

Enter Robert Zubrin. An engineer at Martin Marietta, he and a small team built the most bare-bones Mars plan possible: Mars Direct.

Mars Direct is entirely conservative. Zubrin liked Nuclear Thermal, but he knew it wasn’t flying and would take years to develop. He also knew that dozens of launches of a Saturn V sized vehicle were unsustainable. Zubrin didn’t want Apollo 2, he wanted the start of colonization.

Mars Direct was a huge hit at NASA, who used it as the basis for their planned Mars missions, called the Design Reference Missions. It’s been 30 years, and goddamn, NASA has dropped the ball. Over time, NASA added more complexity to Mars Direct, until it became the monstrosity it is today.

NASA’s current Mars plan requires dozens of launches of SLS, expendable Nuclear stages, and is entirely focused on flags and footprints - not colonization.

It’s funny how NASA embraced Mars Direct but deformed it into the mess it is today. I am disgusted NASA actually wants to build some fuckhuge nuclear vehicle we all know is too expensive to ever fly.

First for starlab 2.0

have there been any updates about the military starlinks?

>>14602034
massive radiators

>>14601794
>3 spacex launches on the 7th, one from each pad
>another spacex launch on the 9th
They couldn't possibly... could they?

>>14602050
See brilliant pebbles for more information.

>>14601801
He's dead, SpaceX better hire Jeff Bezos now

>>14602050
https://sattrackcam.blogspot.com/2022/06/observing-newly-launched-usa-328-usa.html
One of the satwatchers on NSF got photos

4ass brilliant pebbles startup now

>>14602099
We could do it, it's the right time

https://youtu.be/aEug0yY2mBE?t=851

thoughts ? have they consoomed too much reddit ?

would sfg put a spacex rocket on an airplane ?

>>14602102
>Ukranian anything
No

>>14602102
Stupid but kind of sad. It’s funny how SpaceX has surpassed NASA in terms of hopium though

>>14602101
we just need funding

Informed people are saying we won’t know anything about the launch license until a few days before it happens, so who fucking knows Hop When?

>>14602102
I don't think it makes sense over normal ships

>>14602016
That seems to be it, glad that mystery was solved

>>14602099
*fruity pebbles

>>14602117
>Informed people
who?

>>14602143
Randos on ElleTwo who everyone sucks off. Yeah, I bought a subscription lol

Decent book, interesting perspective into NASA's management issues. It will REALLY make you hate Bill Nelson.

>>14602163
Its not just him, there are others. Specifically his colleagues that were anti-commercial space are now in charge of NASA.

>>14602166
Who put all those people in charge of NASA?

>>14602076
>brilliant pebbles
You would be able to tell if they're doing that if they switch Starlink away from electric propulsion as it cannot accelerate fast enough to catch an ICBM. Maybe they could add solid rocket motor in secret but with all the tracking that goes on these days I'm sure someone would figure it out during their testing.
>>14602102
Mriya just wouldn't be able to lift a Falcon 9. Drag and gravity losses only contribute ~1km/s to velocity required to reach orbit, air launch only becomes attractive if you can get the plane traveling very fast before release. It has failed to realize any cost advantage, Pegasus was very expensive, Virgin Orbit's LauncherOne is better but also worse than most of its peers. That said there are some modest benefits like the T/W of the rocket can be lower, it wouldn't necessarily use sea-level engines, and it wouldn't be confined to the few existing spaceports. That last part should really worry Astra.

>>14602172
They have rare and expensive papers.

>>14602166
Bolden comes off looking like a complete fool. Funny that the obama admin basically realized he 's a jobber and made him basically only do performative speeches.
She also talks about this meeting as well.

>>14602172
biden rewarding his long-time allies with cushy positions

>>14602172
You know who

>>14602177
No, the sad part is it's just old guard apollo contractors and politicians. She talks about how senators with big contractor workforce basically pulled strings to fuck over the delta-clipper, and got Lockheed Martin the venture star dead end.

>>14602172
I used to think its Biden, but now it looks more like he's being controlled

>>14602185

>>14602187
Oh no no no!

>>14602185
This has been known since before his inauguration

>>14602173
There's also the question of if subsonic air-launch-to-orbit actually decreases the amount of mass required to send a payload to space. For that I defer to this graph made by the creator of the Pegasus which shows the gross mass to payload ratio of various rockets, any gain is eaten by the fact that smaller rockets generally have a worse mass ratio. Good luck building a plane that can lift Starship.

>>14602191
>one man writes his own notes
>other man is controlled by globohomo

>>14602172
Tiggers and poohs

>>14601889
More will be on the way, found my grandpa's old stamp collection and found these stamps, 4 duplicates, but mostly new ones

>>14602172
the swamp

>>14602191

>>14602196
Also it shows why Starship is great despite being fully reusable and how it that was largely enabled by its sheer size, at 5000t with a 150t payload the G/P would be 33.

>liberals are openly calling for civil war and genociding people for wrongthink
what will spacex do in a civil war

>>14602227
good meme

>>14602229
Bro stop don’t post this stuff in /sfg/ please man.
Fuck conservatives and fuck liberals. I just want to go to Mars. Fuck the Supreme Court tho.

>>14602229
Pay a little extra to cartels for security if the Texan border collapses. That's about it.

Why do you think he's setup and moved operations where they are? The man thinks ahead.

>>14602196
What is glow/payload?

Is it about the glowies? Or something else?

>>14602245
Gross LiftOff Weight

>>14602245
The graph is charting how much stuff it can put into orbit as a function of how much it weighs at liftoff.

Super Heavy is landing on grid fins, right?

>>14602262
No. Therss pins below them which get caught

>>14602245
The talk is worth watching and I've linked it here before. The man thought there was no real way to bring down the cost of accessing space, which to be fair was an opinion shared by a lot of people at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY3GclS5VUQ

>>14602266
people gave up hope after the shuttle became the shittle

>>14602275
The real crime about the shuttle program is there was so little improvement to or expansion of the orbiter fleet over time. There should have been one new orbiter per year including improvements, with the older orbiters upgraded when able. A shuttle 2.x with liquid boosters and a shuttle 3.x with methalox SSMEs and a simple subcooled steel ET would have permakilled the Challenger and Columbia failure modes.

>>14602185
Lmao there's no way that's real

How far can we go with current tech, realistically (no Orion drives)? Saturn? Jupiter?

>>14602291
With Starship? If we had smaller multistages and refuels, easily

>>14602291
Jupiter definitely. Saturn gets dicey with two year transit each way.

>>14602289
That means that the companies building shuttles would have to keep coming up with new designs, and the re-design might cause parts to go obsolete and carefully allotted jobs would be lost.
It's not that easy in government procurement.

>>14602291
launching from mars would reduce the trip by a significant amount of time right? maybe we'll have to wait until we have a colony on mars.

>>14602309
Oh right I forgot about that. We need a Constitutional amendment restricting budget granularity to one line item per cabinet agency so Congress gets their dicks out of the pie.

>>14602315
yeah you shave a half an AU off if you fly from mars

>>14602262
>>14602264
I don’t think it’s been explicitly said anywhere but the reason why the pins are right below the grid fins/ forward flaps are to catch the craft just in case the alignment is off on the little mechanisms meant to hook into the pins

>>14601801

>>14602291
Fun way of looking at it.

reminder, tim dodd still hasnt fully released his elon interview. it's been two months

>>14602351
it's not that easy in video editing

>>14602351
He also hasn't released his Astra spacetech day interviews he did with Chris Kemp and Benjamin Lyon.

>>14602351
the paypiggies need to pay up, inflation is hitting todd hard

>>14602187
>Even has to have the instructions printed in a sans serif font
It's so fucking over it's not even funny.
t. someone who had a parent with alzheimer.

wen SLS hop?

>>14602185
>>14602187
It boggles my mind how this man is nearing Jacob Zuma levels of presidency

>>14602343
Are these additive, as in going to Mars would be 1060+1440+3800 m/s total?

>>14602404
blackbird and angry bird

>>14602343
>>14602422
>additive
>1060+1440+3800
You have it backwards, that's Mars surface to Earth surface.
Earth surface to Mars surface is 9600 + 3210 + 1060.
Which is significantly less that Earth surface to the Moon's surface: 9600 + 3260 + 680 + 1730

>>14602343
I prefer this site
https://deltavmap.github.io/
>>14602422
Note that the white arrows indicate where aerobraking is available, if you can intercept Mars you can aerocapture to low Mars orbit which saves 2.1 km/s or do direct entry which can save up to 5.7 km/s, minus what it takes to land which with Starship should be conservatively less than 1 km/s.

>>14602404
what's wrong with her cheek

>>14602491
Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor hell a fury like a woman scorned

>>14601821
It seems like the hard part is slowing down, this guy has a pretty novel idea, basically there would be relatively small power station on Phobos that would shoot charged particles at the mag sail in order to stop it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vVOtrAnIxM

>>14602408
Is he what the Zuma satellite was named after?

>>14602495
That’s a great quote actually wow

NASA sounding rocket launch in Australia soon.

>>14602588
The fuck

>>14602597
Based but interesting to note the fat nose on the Gemini capsules. Gemini’s original nose was too skinny to carry crew through so normally they dock ass-first.

Behold, Lunar plans from the US and USSR

Starship will fly before Dreamchaser. Sad

Am I missing something or is the Dipole Drive a giant meme? At least the EM drive would be useful if it works.

>tfw humans will colonize millions of galaxies but almost all of them will be totally disassembled to supply a single mega-habitat and the only pristine ones will be nature preserves

what a pittance

>>14602678
Humanity will merge with machines before we leave our solar system

>>14602682
human-derived organisms, whatever

>>14602682
>merge with machine
>send robotic automated spacecraft to another solar system @ 10% speed of light
>it arrives 42 years later to proxima centauri
>robotic spacecraft sets up a robotic factory which makes large signal receivers around the star
>robotic spacecraft makes cybernetic human clone body with mind upload interface
>sends laser signal back to earth at speed of light
>4.23 years later earth receives signal that robotic station is ready
>digitized humans gets sent to proxima centauri at speed of light in 4.23 years
>jumps into a new cybernetic body
>speeds up colonization process all over the galaxy
>each solar system or cluster of solar systems are controlled by digital humans and managed by automated robots
>we're now in Supreme Commander universe

>>14602476
that site does not include aerobraking for me, despite it apparently claiming to.

>>14602291
With a Starship and orbital refueling you can go anywhere.

>>14602695
That just says if aerobraking is available en route, you still have to deduct it manually.

>>14602682
Humanity at large, no. The demigods will have a head start on the universe after they leave the solar system, but their designs on it will leave relatively little impact.
Humanity, left behind and purposefully shunning AI, will uncover and realize the full potential of the supraconscious regime even without the AI shortcut.

>>14602701
Kek, nice.
Also, comfy. Reminds me a bit of the Cowboy Bebop universe.

>>14602682
>Media is set 50 years into the future
Advanced AI, cybernetics, prosthetic bodies, arms, etc. Nanotechnology, people with full body replacement with machines, etc.

>Media set 200 years into the future
Everyone looks the same as they do now

Why is this? Why is cyberpunk media more willing to display transhumanism compared to space-centered stuff, when the latter is often set centuries into the future

>>14602708
there's some sort of deep cognitive bias in humans when trying to envision the far future where we imagine everyone will be wearing simple clean, almost angelic clothing and they'll all act like high-status humans from today, thus star trek characters love playing chess and reading shakespeare. i don't know why it happens but i don't think it's even on a conscious level.

>>14602703
>deduct it manually
well yeah, I can already do that with >>14602343 or with picrel that shows me which legs have aerobraking assist available. (Summing the deltavs is straightforward in my head) Unless I'm missing something, the deltavmap does not show this.

>>14602711
>star trek characters love playing chess and reading shakespeare

Because Star Trek has a lot of its roots in Napoleonic Naval fiction and that's the sort of thing Jack Aubrey and Horatio Hornblower did for fun. This is also why it seems normal for starfleet officers to be playing classical instruments in their off time but it feels weird and unnatural for them to show up somewhere that's playing anything remotely modern.

>>14602711
It’s just funny how stuff like Cyberpunk 2077 or Robocop or Terminator are set in the near-ish future and feature seemingly more advanced cybernetics than stuff centuries ahead such as the Expanse or Star Trek.

>>14602708
>>14602711

>>14602341
I'm going to go have sex with a woman for Elon. It will be difficult, but as long as I think about Elon the whole time I can probably do it.

>>14602711
Its cause many lazy scifis are merely a vehicle for expressing the current attitudes towards future, particularly the cultural side of things.

>>14602724
I think that has a lot to do with the mindset of the creators. Particularly their generational backgrounds and influences. Cyberpunk 2077 was based off of Neuromancer/The Sprawl written by a guy who had his eye towards projecting the near future and also lived through the Japanese miracle and saw the age of microelectronics. From there he extrapolated the technology of the future. Stark Trek was created by a literal Boomer whose influences were pulp Sci-Fi and shit like Buck Rogers. He also had virtually no interest in projecting out the future based off of contemporary outlooks since they took place so far into the future. He also had little insight into the electronics at the time and no concept of shit being produced down to the nanoscopic scale. TNG had a vague sense of some of these things but not the granular improvisation that was colored by the technology of the future. Also, the sort of stories are very important. Star Trek didn't really give a shit about trying to immerse the viewer in the technology, it was almost always just in the background, completely nonsensical, or intended to be the problem of the week. A lot of what you are talking about, it's the opposite. The technology facilitates the setting and without it the setting doesn't work.

Any launch date for starship yet?

>>14602734
2 weeks

>>14602736
Next week/monday-wednesday, is booster static fire tests or some booster preburner tests or both.

A week after that is S24 on sub orbital and static fire. Then after that, its stacking and launch. So possibly 3-4 weeks.

>>14602734
we'll have to get through some stage zero construction, booster and ship engine test fires, and launch rehearsals before the actual launch.

September is my bet.

>>14602727
>He also had virtually no interest in projecting out the future based off of contemporary outlooks since they took place so far into the future. He also had little insight into the electronics at the time and no concept of shit being produced down to the nanoscopic scale.
they did have a few insights into the future of electronics which became such widespread scifi staples and are now commonplace technology that you don't even notice it today, like digital medical readouts and videoconferencing (a few years before the mother of all demos proved its viability)

>>14602491
>>14602424
>>14602404
I've been hearing a lot about inflation in the news, but I didn't know what it was referring to

>>14602599
Can we get some non-linear arrangements with the boosters arranged in a triangle, or maybe a pentagram or star of david as an homage to the SLS program's origins?

>>14602720
>Unless I'm missing something, the deltavmap does not show this.
It shouldn't need to, look at where the arrows begin on the other chart, the injection/transfer orbit. If you know that aerobraking is available, you know that the planet has a real atmosphere and everything past the transfer can be done with aerobraking, from capture to landing.

>>14602722
In Roddenberry's defense, the age of sail is an extremely comfy setting.

>launch table spotted moving to 39A
>S24 getting raptors installed
Soon.

>>14602762
Unironically this time tho.

>>14602762
There's supposedly going to be some kind of a booster test fire on Monday, but I doubt it'll be with all the engines right away. Still, soon.

>>14602767
someone said 9 engines

/sfg/ is healing :)

>>14602754
>on the other chart
then I don't need the github tool. I can already do the (fewer) sums from the one chart. The tool would be useful when it includes aerobraking, otherwise it takes longer.
I mean, it's nice to have tools but I've yet to find one that beats the one chart. Even this nasa trajectory calculator sadly does not include landing on Mars (only flyby and rendezvous): https://trajbrowser.arc.nasa.gov/example_queries.php

THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF NASA
https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/06/nasas-psyche-mission-wont-be-ready-for-launch-this-year/

>>14602813
mars has been delayed. goodnight anon

>>14602813
NASA went FULL BAKA

>>14602805
>I can already do the (fewer) sums from the one chart
No you can't unless you still don't know how to use it properly but I don't care and it isn't a competition.
>Even this nasa trajectory calculator sadly does not include landing on Mars
That's because it's incalculable without knowing details about the craft and entry velocity, hence why the other charts just treat it as if it has no atmosphere so you'll at least know that requires less then the amount given. Porkchop plots are a much better tool for looking at delta-v with transit duration than that NASA tool.

http://sdg.aero.upm.es/index.php/online-apps/porkchop-plot

>>14602166
And they're taking credit for the success of commercial providers. Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.

>>14602823
I dont care about them taking credit, I want them to. I rather them not impede the commercial space. Biden refuses to acknowledge SpaceX/Tesla even though both of them makes sense. His appointment of anti-commercial space senators and anti-Tesla/Musk NHTSA/NTSB heads are signs that he's either got axe to grind against Musk (which is nonsense) or that he's likely being led around by the noose by higher powers. Remember that Tesla biggest short seller, Jim Chanos is Biden's fundraiser campaign manager. So its affecting all the things he does in light of Musk's companies.

how to become 2d?

>>14602813
>The validation process requires a platform that mimics the hardware on the probe, in some cases via duplicates of the actual onboard hardware. That test platform was only completed recently, and mission planners concluded that there's not enough time to fully test the software before the launch window closes.

WHAT THE FUCK

>>14602832
it ain't that easy anon

>>14602834
It literally is though. At Astra we have a similar hardware-in-the-loop test platform for Rocket 3. Are you telling me NASA is less competent than Astra is these days?

>>14602827
>are signs that he's either got axe to grind against Musk (which is nonsense)
Brandon is an old school corrupt union Democrat who hates Elon's guts for being so successful with non-union labor.

>>14602830
Stand under a Starship and tickle the crane operator.

>>14602830
Reenter Earth's atmosphere with a Shuttle

>>14602837
i mean uh maybe that testing isn't so good...

>>14602848
It doesn't capture upper stage tank pressure.

Built a vehicle that can take 6 crew to Saturn in 350 days. Uses a VASMIR engine and TWO fuckhuge nuclear reactors.
This thing is a beast. It would take two Starship launches to build the crew section, and several expendable Starships to build the propulsion and power sections.
Of course this is only one-way, and without landers or anything. Will investigate further

>>14602832
'member the good old times when NASA would send up probes with minimal software on it and then work it up later on? With one thousandth or less the processing power..

>>14602858
>its only one way
I'll take it if we can circle around and the food/water/internet is there. LMAo

>>14602858
from the project orion book i remember they were looking at a 3-year round trip mission to enceladus but that was with an isp in the 10000s range so that's really good one-way performance all considered

>>14602813
Well i think JAXA is in charge of dealing with Psyche from now on.
Also, i gave a try to the expanse S1 and i didnt like it, the only good stuff was the space related scenes, the detective and the curry gilf plot was boring and bad acted, the main characters were annoying or lacked charisma, slow pacing. I had high expectations for this one, sad. Did i get filtered?

>>14602864
I’d give my life just to spend a few moments staring at the Earth from the lunar surface

>>14602866
It’s a very barebones vehicle. Just an inflatable habitat and a modified Apollo command module to act as a “bridge.” It can’t really do anything. Maybe some landers and return prop could be placed ahead of time. Also the return trip is about 2 years but dear God braking back into LEO will be painful.
Also Orion is kino. It’s probably super infeasible but it’s incredibly capable. We could be onwards to Alpha Centauri with 50’s tech.

Today i tried to convince a Bong tha5 the shuttle was shit. That it actually harmed spaceflight. Including the loss of skylab.

>>14602874
and how did it go?

>>14602874
Loss of Mars program, loss of skylab, loss of moon exploration, stagnation, and finally loss of human space flight all together for US.

>>14602878
he said he'd go let george mueller know and jumped in his tardis

does anyone know why altair was supposed to do the lunar insertion braking for constellation instead of orion? it just looks stupid how big the tankage is on the lander compared to the crew habitat. my guess is they wanted to make orion as small as possible to lighten the load on ares I but i can't easily find a real answer.

>>14602890
It's because Orion was always from day one using spare shuttle OMS thrusters, which lack the thrust of Apollo's AJ10-130.

>>14602874
14 dead astronauts is not enough?
Cost per ton/flight/development compared to literally anything when it's primary goal was cost reduction?

>>14602897
>14 dead astronauts is not enough?
it didn't kill all of those parasites, so no

>>14602871
Yeah

>>14602858
>Saturn in 350 days
You should make sure the reactor mass is realistic if you want to draw any real world parallels

>>14602892
back in the constellation days they were planning on giving orion a new methalox engine. they had to fall back on the aj10 when they handed the service module over to ESA because even they couldn't fuck an aj10 up. the aj10-130 had more thrust than was necessary for apollo-style missions because it was designed when they were still considering direct ascent so it needed to lift the CSM off the lunar surface.

>>14602908
people really don't like when i bring up the fact constellation dev cost should be included in current SLS costs
mainly because it makes it closer to 20 billion per launch then

>>14602890
It’s exactly that. Ares I was always having performance issues.
In the latter days of Constellation, NASA realized that having a gigantic descent stage for Altair was kind of shitty so they even planned to build a third stage to finish TLI and complete LOI.

Ares V was gnarly. Damn thing made SLS look small.

>>14602918
SLS is ares

>>14602897
NASA managed to kill three astronauts just by doing pre-flight test. If they went with Big Gemini instead of the Shuttle, they would still find a way how to kill a Big G full of people, and that's up to 12 astronauts.

>>14602924
SLS is Jupiter from DIRECT. Ares was 10 meters wide and used RS-68’s. Jupiter was SLS’ diameter and used SSMEs

>>14602924
ares v is sls if sls could actually do something useful like landing 15 tons of cargo on the lunar surface

>>14602930
>Big G slander
Shut

The fuck is this? Big G station with Geminis tending it?

Man I do wonder how history would be different if NASA flew Big G instead of the shuttle. Probably easier too because dev cost is lower.

>>14602936
mcdonnell-douglas engineers present their latest creation, VERY big gemini. this, ladies and gentlemen, is the biggest gemini EVER!
>>14602937
those geminis aren't even big

>>14602933
>muh video game screencap
lmao that u think its real

Gemini on Mars. An actual plan in 1963
>http://www.astronautix.com/b/bygeminitomars.html

>>14602941
only sls is real

NASA:
>We want a shuttle!!!!!

Geminichad’s response:

>>14602944
>reposting IFLS retard propaganda thats over half a century old

>>14602955
Gemini is obscure as fuck it’s not IFLS material. IFLS stuff is Buran

>>14602936
You shut it. I was talking about the incompetent retards responsible for killing 17 astronauts. NASA fucked things up with Apollo, they fucked things up with Shuttle (twice) and it's a small miracle they didn't manage to fuck things up with Crew Dragon too (mostly because SpaceX takes care of everything), but SLS/Orion is a trouble in making.

>>14602940
>What do you mean, clean-sheet design? Fuck you

>>14602930
Eh, once you work out the kinks capsules have few unknown failure modes, see Soyuz.

>>14602858
Is VASIMR buffed to be both high Isp and high thrust or do you have some type of mod that lets you plan continuous burn interplanetary trajectories?

this is what for all mankind could have been

>>14602965
BTW, the real world version is 200 kW, up to 5000 s Isp using argon, and 72% efficiency.

>>14602965
Mod let’s me burn while at time warp. I have to run the engine at horribly low thrust because the Delta V needed is insane.

>>14602905
I’m using the two largest reactors from the Near Future electrical mod. Each weighs like 200 tons. No idea if it’s realistic or not.

>>14602599
>SSS: "Oops, all boosters!"

>>14602969
>>14602965
Mod let’s me burn while at time warp. I have to run the engine at horribly low thrust because the Delta V needed is insane.

>>14602905 #
I’m using the two largest reactors from the Near Future electrical mod. No idea if it’s realistic or not but I need to fully expend a Starship to get them into orbit

>>14602972
if it's configured for RO then it probably passes a sanity check at least

1/3

Two versions of Big G were incisiones. One launched on a Titan IIIM (basically a Titan IV) and the other on a modified Saturn vehicle. Wont go into the details but the S-IVB is twice as wide as the Titan upper stage, so NASA has two options for their Gemini service module.
Obviously, the larger payload of the Saturn launcher allowed for way way way more payload alongside crew. We’re talking 27 tons. That’s as much as the space shuttle.

>>14602995
2/3
>*included
Damn autocorrect. Anyways, take a look at the launchers. The Saturn INT-20 is incredibly bizarre. It honestly looks horribly expensive too, but NASA thought it was interesting enough to investigate. I’m more partial to the INT-11 myself. It combines the bigger service module with a more sustainable launcher: A Saturn IB with four strap on Titan boosters

>>14602995
>>14602997
3/4
I realized I need an extra part. Anyways, here’s the Saturn-Launched Big G. The damn thing is gigantic. It weighs almost 45 tons when fully equipped with its 27 tons of payload. Interestingly enough, that’s as much as the shuttle could lift into orbit. Interesting.

>>14602995
I mean, if you're talking about Shuttles and Saturns...

>>14602995
>>14602997
>>14603002
4/4

Here’s the Titan-Launched Big G. Note the date: 1969. This design seems slightly later than the Saturn-launched one. It’s reasonable to assume NASA ran the numbers and realized the Saturn-Launched Big G was too expensive to fly, or maybe it’s lifter was.
The Titan-Launched Big G was only 16 tons when fully loaded with its 2.5 tons of payload. 2.5 tons of payload is kind of bad - Dragon capsules carry more, and they’re much simpler vehicles. Apparently that service module only massed 7.5 tons. I guess that’s reasonable but it also has as much habitable volume as some space station modules so goddamn.

To conclude this, Big Gemini is an interesting road not traveled. NASA was dead set on using a spaceplane but the benefit of hindsight shows us that the shuttle was a mistake. Was Big Gemini the right course of action? I don’t know. Maybe, maybe not.

>>14602997
if they had continued producing saturn v then the int-20 had a decent case to be made for it. the production lines for the saturn v were expensive to maintain and they were going to be sitting idle most of the time so making a few extra S-ICs a year didn't cost all that much extra money compared to. boeing did a study in 1966 that concluded that making 3 saturn Vs per year + 3 int-20s per year while closing down saturn IB production would actually be cheaper than making 3 saturn Vs per year + 3 int-11s (here called the uprated saturn I w/ 4 120" SRMs). pdf if anyone's interested: https://a.uguu.se/yTcwUJMe.pdf
but, if you're killing saturn v anyway then making int-20s for LEO missions would be way more expensive than just using titan IIIMs.

>>14602972
Just take the reactor weight and divide it by the power in watts, or vice versa since both terms are used. By making the reactor really light you can make electric propulsion have far greater acceleration and delta-v than it would in reality. This is root of the VASIMR scam, their figure was 1 kg/kWe and we're nowhere close to achieving that. The person who was helping Franklin Chang Díaz come up with this later got arrested for defrauding NASA on an unrelated matter.

From a nuclear engineer on NSF, granted this was only 200 kWe and it was proposed in early 2000s but it's probably the most fair comparison.
>Internal numbers I saw had Prometheus at >100 kg/kWe when they cancelled the program. The program was sold to NASA administration at ~20 kg/kWe, which made the application of NEP much more attractive. As the alpha headed south, so did the applicability of the technology to interplanetary missions.

>>14603016
Neat paper. Makes sense that an INT-20 style vehicle would work very well if Saturn V were flying. In hindsight, it was probably cheaper to fly the Saturn family than the Shuttle. Quite sad.

But what the fuck is pic related? Ares 0? The retarded grandfather of Ares 1? Truly bizarre.

>>14603038
that would be the int-05, anchored by the mother of all solids, the aj-260

how long does it take them to install raptors on starship?

>>14603048
2 weeks

>>14603043
>Between Sept. 25, 1965, and June 17, 1967, three static test firings were done. SL-1 was fired at night, and the flame was clearly visible from Miami 50km away,

The world's largest controlled explosion?

/sfg/ give me good video game ideas for space themed vidya

>>14603054
a rocket girl dating sim BUT they're also all your sisters

>>14603054
I haven't seen a game based on spectrometry since the 90s.

>>14603054
GTA but in space

>>14603054
silent hunter but in space

>>14602958
>and it's a small miracle they didn't manage to fuck things up with Crew Dragon too (mostly because SpaceX takes care of everything)
seriously the amount of NASA meddling in dragon is insane
and they basically didn't even look at starliner

>>14603056
>>14603054
this and they are futas too

>>14603082
Why are you like this?

>>14603054
I had an idea once for a game universe where mankind has started colonising space with stations, bases and rudimentary industry, but there has been an apocalyptic war with nuclear and biological weapons that has made Earth a no-go zone, so this space society of 50,000 or so people ends up on it's own and has to learn to fend for it's self

Metro in space basically.

>>14603123
That's basically the plot for Allegiance, still the best space flight sim / 3d RTS hybrid I've ever played, which is probably because it's the only one ever made

>>14602968
for all mankind is a shit fucking show
it just gives me headache with all the bullshit
most annoying of all is having 2012 level of tech in 1992
do people really think we just slept through the 80's and did nothing to make better stuff?

>>14602731
>Neuromancer/The Sprawl written by a guy who had his eye towards projecting the near future and also lived through the Japanese miracle and saw the age of microelectronics.
Neuromancers climax take place on a orbital spinhab resort and Bruce Sterling's Shaper/Mechanist stories are cyberpunk set in a solar system settled by posthumans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaper/Mechanist_universe

>they don't know about tile water infiltration
>They don't know that the Space shuttle tiles had to be re waterproofed after every flight.
>By injecting them individually, by hand with waterproofing compound
>They don't know that starship uses the same hydrophilic insulative layer, and will have the exact same problem.

Starship sisters... We got too cocky

>>14603287
Starship tiles do not need waterproofing

>>14603287
Is this some new skeptic cope?

>>14603287
So this explains the different shades of color on the tiles?

>>14602731
>He also had little insight into the electronics at the time and no concept of shit being produced down to the nanoscopic scale.
You know what's funny? In the nanites episode, the teaser had Wesley down on his knees looking at where the floors met the walls. I immediately joked that Wesley had been "playing with nanotechnology again". So someone got the mundane part right enough.

>>14602745
More than a few things became reality immediately. Some rich guy contacted them because he wanted to put automatic sliding doors in his house, and they had to tell him it was all stage hands. Turns out that it really wasn't that hard after all once you figured out a good people detector, and it was more reliable than stage hands, too. [kirkbumpshisnose.gif]
But we're not likely to see transporters ever. Their purpose was to move the plot along, but the things they do are so complicated, and the energy (and data) levels so high, that it's unlikely even with a station on both ends. Transporting to or from a planet's surface with nothing to reassemble you there is something you should be able to figure out is impossible without much thought.
And that's one of the real innovations of Star Trek, they made an attempt at continuity with their gadgets. Before that writers just made shit up on the spot and went on with the show. Star Trek at least tried to make a little sense within its technology, even if some things still came down to "it's magic, we don't have to explain shit".

>>14603437
Star Trek was the 1st show where you needed a special FTL drive to get to another star in a timely fashion rather than 'moar rogget thrust XD' as was typical previously

>>14602871
>I had high expectations for this one, sad. Did i get filtered?
No, the Expanse is dogshit, one of the worst things I've ever seen.
>But but but the ships flip and burn to decelerate it's HARD SCIFI
If you want decent Sci-fi you're gonna have to read, Clarke, Heinlein, Asimov. Ian Banks is pretty good too, if you like that kind of thing. Player of Games is worth a read.
The best most recent sci-fi series was Stargate SG-1, runner up prize for Atlantis.
>>14603281
These are also pretty good if you're into cyberpunk stuff.
If you need a specific recommendation, read Have Space Suit -- Will Travel.

Modern sci-fi is just bad, there's no aspirational works, it's just pointless contemporary drama wearing futuristic clothes.
>But it EXPLORES the REAL ISSUES plaguing our SOCIETY
Fuck you I want to go to space.

>>14603479
>>>/pol/
back you go dumb e*rther (derogatory)

>>14603287
I think first they have to stop them from falling off.

Is it possible to do a 1g acceleration to mars and then flip the rocket halfway and do a 1g deceleration for the rest of the way so that the crew get a comfy 1g for the whole trip and won't get fucked up bodies from 1g? Is this possible with the starship? How long would the trip to mars take if we do this?

>>14602873
We need someone to set up a livestream on the moon, just point it at Earth (it's tidally locked) and stream. Of course it would need batteries for the two-week night, but that ought to be simple enough these days.

>>14603487
>fucked up bodies from 1g?
*0g

>>14603054
With all this talk about AUs, Buzz Aldrin's Race into Space but modern and all sorts of branching possibilities.

>>14603487
>Is it possible to do a 1g acceleration to mars and then flip the rocket halfway and do a 1g deceleration for the rest of the way so that the crew get a comfy 1g for the whole trip and won't get fucked up bodies from 1g?
physically possible, not yet technically possible
>Is this possible with the starship?
lmao no, not at all
>How long would the trip to mars take if we do this?
a few days

>>14603495
The body is weakened by 0g, the soul is weakened by 1g.

>>14602947
This. You've seen it down at Michoud

>>14603547
All they've said is they've put a bunch of STS components together and that's the SLS. It's not that easy in rocket design.

>>14603539
>The body is weakened by 0g, the soul is weakened by 1g.
that makes sens

ELA just launched their rogget

>>14603462
Because before that nobody ever gave a fuck about the speed of light and just how fuckhueg big space was. (cue Douglas Adams)

>>14603570
In film and tv, yes, but if you submitted a print SF story in 1960 where you go to Tau Ceti in a week just by building a bigger rocket, you'd get a rejection letter because editors had some knowledge of the rocket equation & relativity. You'd be seen as an ignoramus.

"2033" Mars study from JPL few months ago

How much do you think this architecture will cost? $100+ billion?

They took this away from you

>>14603487
>Is this possible with the starship?
1g = 9.8 m/s per second, Starship can accelerate faster than that for a few minutes in order to reach space but then it's out of propellant. So just add more? They can't because the amount required to increase delta-v is exponential, see the rocket equation.

Instead you can take two Starships, attach a wire between them and spin them at 1g. You could also make spin station Mars cycler, those don't reduce the delta-v required to reach Mars, they make it so that you only have to get your habitation module in space once and Starship would just have to carry the supplies.

>>14603610
Isn't the problem with cyclers that you still have to accelerate to the orbit of the cycler?
Cyclers are basically an assumption that interplanetary travel requires so much stuff that it's worth leaving it in a weird orbit and chasing down the stuff every time to catch a ride. It sort of makes sense when you're stuck with capsules, but becomes pointless with something the size of Starship.

>>14603487
Starship will slow down to terminal velocity with bellyflop.

It sounds unintuitive, but Starship's fall speed is much lower than Falcon 9 and hence, is a much smoother ride for humans.

>>14603610
>you can take two Starships, attach a wire between them and spin them at 1g
Won't the crew become extremely dizzy and nauseous?

>>14603487
now upgraded with real numbers
>Is this possible with the starship?
yes, all you need to do is upgrade rapvac ISP from 380s to 330000s
>How long would the trip to mars take if we do this?
4 days

>>14603618
>still have to accelerate to the orbit of the cycler?
Yes but you have to accelerate to reach Mars anyway and the extra delta-v isn't exorbitant. I would rather spend six months on a cruise ship than four months on a Starship sized tug boat, quality of life and safety is the advantage. As it's not mass constrained you could make the radiation dose negligible.
https://engineering.purdue.edu/people/james.m.longuski.1/ConferencePapersPresentations/2002ALow-ThrustVersionoftheAldrinCycler.pdf
>>14603624
Probably not if the cable is long enough that the RPM is low.
>Angular Velocity: The cross-coupling of normal head rotations with the habitat rotation can lead to dizziness and motion sickness. To minimize this cross-coupling, minimize the habitat’s angular velocity.
>Graybiel [1977] conducted a series of experiments in a 15-foot-diameter “slow rotation room” and observed: In brief, at 1.0 rpm even highly susceptible subjects were symptom-free, or nearly so. At 3.0 rpm subjects experienced symptoms but were not significantly handicapped. At 5.4 rpm, only subjects with low susceptibility performed well and by the second day were almost free from symptoms. At 10 rpm, however, adaptation presented a challenging but interesting problem. Even pilots without a history of air sickness did not fully adapt in a period of twelve days.
>On the other hand, Lackner and DiZio [2003] found that: sensory-motor adaptation to 10 rpm can be achieved relatively easily and quickly if subjects make the same movement repeatedly. This repetition allows the nervous system to gauge how the Coriolis forces generated by movements in a rotating reference frame are deflecting movement paths and endpoints and to institute corrective adaptations.

>>14603658
How long does the cable have to be to make 1g and still be under the 1rpm comfort limit?

>>14602439
you fucking idiot, what you just described as "mars surface to earth surface" is "mars surface to earth intercept", and what you described as earth surface to mars surface is actually "earth surface to mars intercept".
Technically, after achieving mars intercept you could aerobrake to lose velocity, but that's probably gonna need one hell of a heat shield. probably not gonna happen unless you wanna go rediscover that one perfect insulator that guy made and never released because he was a slimy jew who wanted all the money from his discovery

>>14603681
play around with this
https://www.artificial-gravity.com/sw/SpinCalc/

>>14603054

Lunar Lander, but with a shit ton of space debris moving lateral to the surface at incredible hihg speed. Each time you die your debris contributes to the hazard. Maybe do the pixel physics thing from Cortex Command or Noita for extra chaos.

>>14603699
>Technically, after achieving mars intercept you could aerobrake to lose velocity, but that's probably gonna need one hell of a heat shield.
it'd have to be massive, but the thermal enviornment isn't that much of an issue. even if you enter mars's atmosphere on a hohmann transfer you're not going to be going as fast as LEO reentry on earth.

>>14603636
>yes, all you need to do is upgrade rapvac ISP from 380s to 330000s
acktually since thrust is inversely proportional to Isp at a given level of power, this still wouldn't work and the acceleration would be extremely slow. You get more energy out of your reaction mass so the mass flow rate and thrust is decreased.
>>14603681
I just looked it up, a 224m radius spin station rotating at 2 rotations per minute will generate 1g. However 1g isn't necessary and they're going to have to adapt to 0.38g anyway.

>>14603708
I'm retarded and despite quoting from that site I didn't realize I could use the calculator.

>>14603712
>However 1g isn't necessary and they're going to have to adapt to 0.38g anyway
Isn't it better to postpone the adaption as long as possible? Why not just do the adapting when they come arrive mars so the toll on them boddies are as sm0ll as possible?

>>14603054
The raft but in LEO that has been hit by Kessler syndrome about 50 years into the future. Basically you have to scavenge for recourses to survive, get some from random debris, get food and more modules from the dozen or so space stations in orbit, get fuel and parts from satellites, and build your ship bigger from the parts ect ect

>>14603722
Why not force them to live in 3g so they're super strong when they get there? It's called the Gainz Station.

>>14603726
it worked for goku

>>14603056
>>14603082
a game where you both go to church and pray to jesus for forgiveness in space

What planet or moon has the weirdest geology in your opinion?

I nominate Venus because it has so many types of features unique to itself.

>has widespread volcanism but no plate tectonics
>as a result heat builds up in the mantle until it reaches a critical level that triggers an episode of planetwide hypervolcanism that resurfaces the entire planet's surface with fresh lava
>these global resurfacing episodes occur on average every 500 million years, and it is unknown when the next one is due

>lower atmosphere is mostly CO2 in a supercritical high pressure state thats almost dense enough to swim through

>Venus has several weird types of volcanoes that are found nowhere else in the solar system
>"pancake" volcanoes that can be up to 50km wide but only a few hundred meters high caused by cool but highly viscous lava slowly oozing out through a hole in the crust
>"arachnoid" volcanoes that are similar to volcanic domes on Earth and Mars but develop cracks in a radial pattern resembling an enormous spider
"coronae" are giant titty-shaped volcanoes surrounded by concentric crack rings

>Venus, like Mars, was thought to possess liquid water in the ancient past, but if it did there would be no remaining evidence on the surface due to the periodic mass resurfacing events

IMO Venus is a bad place for space mining both because all of the heavier elements in the crust were recycled down into the mantle from repeated resurfacing events, and that delta V requirements to launch from the surface are almost as high as Earth, which requires massive complex and expensive launch systems to escape.

>>14603741
>What planet or moon has the weirdest geology in your opinion?
you mother ass lmao! lol

>>14603741
venus truly is hell
mercury is the best and needs to be turned into a giant factory asap

>Anna Kikina
lol what kind of a name is that.

>>14603741
>delta V requirements to launch from the surface are almost as high as Earth
Did you check the chart? >>14602343 >>14602720
For some reason the delta V to get off of Venus is much worse than Earth. I'm guessing it's that shitty atmosphere.

>>14603780
yeah i'm not sure where they got that number, but i think that's reflecting what sort of delta v you would have on earth's surface for a craft needed to go from venus's surface to venus orbit. it doesn't seem like that's the correct way to measure delta v to me but then again i don't actually know how they're calculating it.

>>14603803
>yeah i'm not sure where they got that number
All of these dV maps source to the same place and the author admitted he was just making shit up for Venus.

Just came back from a month long absence, anything new /sfg/?
>>14603803
they pretty much winged it and said "well Venus is nigh impossible with current tech, might as well say you need 27 km/s of Dv to LVO from the surface lmao"

But about 8km/s is actually fighting Venus gravity thats for sure, same as Earth really..the fuckhuge atmosphere losses are however hard to estimate without an accurate simulator of venus lower atmosphere

the perfect astrophysical environment to spur spaceflight

>>14603741
Earth

>Not tidally locked
>Axial tilt because of Moon-forming impact
>Plate tectonics preventing snowball earth but emitting just enough heat to get liquid water
>LHB shielded not only by Jupiter but also the moon

The more you learn about early earth the more incredible it is that life started there

>>14603610
It doesn't need to be 1G. That is very over the top. 3.721m/s^2 martian gravity will be plenty healthy for them and would be ideal since you will not have to adapt once you get there. Plus you don't need a truss that is anywhere near as long

>>14603846
I agree with you, I was just working under his assumption.

>>14603851
Fair enough

>>14603636
>yes, all you need to do is upgrade rapvac ISP from 380s to 330000s
Can you visualize this for a retard like me? How much bigger and more fuel would the starship need to achieve this? Would it be unfeasible?

>>14603741
from an objective point of view id say Earth, it doesnt have as grand or majestic phenomena as some of its neighbors but looking at the solar system as a whole its a really fucking strange place

>>14603843
our big moon keeps that axial tilt from going too goofy too

>>14603861
>but looking at the solar system as a whole its a really fucking strange place
how?

>>14603860
You dont need fuel (in terms of mass) or starship per ton of payload as long as you have higher efficiency, thats why its doable as long your propellant is Neutron star ultra dense Lasagna matter somehow decomposing into protons and photons inside your engine

>>14603878
>as long your propellant is Neutron star ultra dense Lasagna matter
Very interesting. Never heard about this before. Is it a tech spaceX is working on?

>>14603843

My personal theory is that Venus, like Earth, suffered a giant impact with another protoplanet early in its life. But unlike Earth event, the colliding body (I'd call it "Lilith") struck against the direction of Venus' rotation, which is why its so bizarrely slow today. One or more moons may have formed but their orbits decayed until they spiraled into Venus.

Comparing the collision between Earth an Thea and the collision between Venus and Lilith would be a very interesting study.

>>14603889
But what about venus moon?

>>14603876
the exoplanet systems we discover tend to have big planets huddling around their star <0.5 AU, very different from ours. we see so many that its likely not simply a selection effect of our mediocre detecting efforts

>>14603895

They were destroyed when their orbits decayed and they collided with Venus

>>14603896

Gas giants tend to migrate inward as a solar system form. This did not occur properly in our own solar system because the orbits of Jupiter and Saturn developed an almost perfect 2:1 orbital resonance. A similar setup is found around the main sequence star 47 Ursa Majoris.

>>14603860
Unfeasible because simply increasing the size of a bipropellant rocket isn't going to increase it's ISP. ISP is a measure of a rocket (or other propulsion system's) efficiency in converting it's fuel into propelling energy of some kind.
What you need is to switch to a different kind of drive that generates thrust in a more efficient manner than burning a fuel and oxidizer in a combustion chamber.
At least two kinds already exist, Magnetoplasma Drives or MPDs and Nuclear-Thermal Propulsion Rockets or NTPRs, Solar sails technically count I guess but they can only accelerate away from a strong light source and since we don't have lasers allover the solar system their use may not be sufficiently flexible to be viable for some things.
NTPRs can have ISPs as high as 3x that of bipropellant rockets, and MPDs can go as high as 10x+, however both have issues. NTPRs use enriched fissile material and as such have limited operational lives and reusability, and present a radiological hazard inherent to their use. MPDs suffer from cathode decay in most designs which limits their operational lives usually to a couple days of continuous use, putting a fairly strict limitation on their delta-V or how much overall change in velocity they can impart to their spacecraft before becoming inoperable.

>>14603889
How might some big impactors wind up going around the sun opposite Venus' direction of travel? Interplanetary wanderer? I'd thought pretty much everything that formed in the early solar system came from the same disc of material and kept the same spin, going the same direction around the sun.

>>14603876
earth formed where jupiter today is and was destined to be a gas giant but jupiter (and saturn) cucked it by gravitationally causing it to spiral into the inner solar system only a few 50-100 million years into its existence and its been here ever since, also Earth hoovering up the inner solar system resources made mars petite instead of the super earth it was (also) meant to be

>>14603889
Looking for evidence of the collision would be a bit of an adventure, given the lack of moons and Venus's habit of deleting its geologic browser history. Maybe could find some ejected debris from the collision hanging around in the Sun-Venus Lagrange points?

>>14603917
>Earth hoovering up the inner solar system resources made mars petite instead of the super earth it was (also) meant to be
>da big mean planet stole muh gainz!!!
lmao the cope

>>14603904
Other nuclear-electric thrusters like ion thrusters, pulsed inductive thrusters, and VASIMR might also be promising in the future if they can push the amount of thrust to a practical level for manned spacecrafts. All kinds are listed in the Type section

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_electric_propulsion

>>14603918
I'm not sure anything illuminating would be found in the Venus Trojan points after all this time. They are only truly stable in a 3-body system which we don't live in.

>>14603937
why dont we stripmine all nearby worlds to make it a true 2-body system?

>>14603585
link it

>>14603585
for all SLS launches? 50 billion
for the payloads? add about 150ish
200+ billion dollars + tip, take it or leave it

>>14603938
we still would have Jupiter and Saturn etc. perturbing us

>>14603935
I just didn't mention VASIMR because it isn't as mature yet as even unflown nuclear-thermal rockets.

>>14603949
why not use the gas giants as propellant depots?

>>14603760
a qt's name

>>14603860
That person was only joking, it's absolutely impossible. The upper limit for methane/liquid oxygen rocket engines is about 460 seconds of Isp. Ignoring that, the ship wouldn't necessarily be extremely large because the fuel efficiency would be so great but it's acceleration would be incredibly slow that it would be useless for interplanetary trips.

This is why both the thrust meme and Isp meme needs to die, and it's unironically not that easy in rocketry. You want a high exhaust velocity if you need a lot of delta-v to reach your desired orbit but it has to be low enough to reach it within a reasonable period of time. You want high thrust low in a gravity well to take advantage of the Oberth effect, outside that you would ideally be burning half way to your destination, then turning around and burning through the other half as that is most efficient.
>>14603935
What matters is the specific power of the reactor or solar array, most electric thrusters are actually tuned to be higher thrust, lower Isp and they already can reach 70%+ efficiency. Like with VASIMR you can make them better at throttling but that does little to improve electric propulsion in general.

>>14603968
unless you consider other types of propellants beyond chemical, and of course schizo-tech at the very top

>>14603918
>Maybe could find some ejected debris from the collision hanging around in the Sun-Venus Lagrange points?
Or maybe through something like picrel for Theia. But I don't know how possible it is form orbit.

>>14603981
we must liberate theia from her shackles

>>14603956
If you could figure out how to aerobrake into Jupiter's upper atmosphere in some kind of highly elliptical orbit without getting fried and avoid slowing down enough, you could theoretically scoop hydrogen and helium out of its atmosphere

The amount of radiation shielding you'd need and the size of the scoop, though...

Biden Minecraft Admin

>>14604000

hey guys whats hapenin

>>14604008
static fire of the super heavy booster

>>14604008
sls

>>14604016
Did someone proofread this? The ICPS caption repeats itself. Thrust is bizarrely given in pound-force

I'm guessing they're trying to adhere to NASA's schizophrenic "oh yeah, the plebs use customary units" guidelines

>>14603991
>The amount of radiation shielding you'd need
Not after we remove the radiation belts with big rf emitters, which gives access to all the Galileans

>>14604016
Would a fully fueled starship depot variant have enough DV to leave the solar system without gravity assists?

>>14604017
right now?!?!

>>14603760
my wife

>>14604035
The window opens in 20 hours.

>>14603711
could always lithobrake from mars intercept

>>14603913
opposite the rotation, not the direction of travel

>>14604035
Already happened

>>14603975
Yes but those only appear to be both high thrust and high specific impulse because they can generate stupid amounts of power with a low mass and that greatly improves the T/W, rather than improving just in N/kW or Isp which are inversely proportional so they cannot address the problem.

It cannot be overstated, it's all about power. Most space enthusiasts have been conditioned to think using core metrics that tell them virtually nothing when comparing two different modes of propulsion.

>>14604074
1 engine

>>14604081
Didn’t specify which superheavy booster

>>14603975
>>14604076
btw here that graph in color if you're interested

>>14604110
Sheared-flow stabilized Z-pinch fusion and plasma magnet sails both fit into the antimatter band on that chart, which is why they are perennial /sfg/ memes, and of course quantized inertia is (highly) speculative motive physics.

>>14604123
It really needs to be updated, I propose giving NASA a million dollars to make a modern version.

chris redfield on NSF today
https://youtu.be/aP_j4S2bWbs

>>14604153
THINK ABOUT THE BLOODLINE

>>14604070
That makes more sense

>>14603821
This. Launching from Venus can be done in KSP with a lot of difficulty but in real life I don't think it's achievable. Air breathing engines won't work because the atmosphere is almost all CO2. I doubt balloons work well close to the surface because of the 90 bar pressure, that leaves what? Some type of plane with ion propulsion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONP9jS14toE

>>14604168
>Air breathing engines won't work because the atmosphere is almost all CO2.
Just gotta use airbreathing NTP then.

>>14604168
Unironically balloons

>>14604183
I was thinking this too. Build a starship pad on top of massive stratospheric balloons.

Of course, that raises the obvious question of why you would even go to Venus in the first place, given that it has absolutely no commercial or scientific value.

>>14604194
>given that it has absolutely no commercial or scientific value.
As the other anon mentioned the atmosphere has a LOT of co2. You could go there to "mine" co2 to make dry ice or other shit that needs co2

>>14604194
shipping atmosphere from venus to mars

>>14604168
Acid reaction propulsion

>>14604200
>>14604202
Ohhhh.

I think for bulk CO2 delivery a railgun would unironically be more efficient. Just have a single floating platform that sucks in atmosphere, freezes it, and shoots it past escape velocity and into an intercept course with Mars.

Of course, you would need Von Neumann machines or some other extremely futuristic energy source to do this on a large enough scale to transform the entire planet.

>>14604194
you can surpass 95% of venus atmosphere using balloons, really bigass balloons filled with nothing but breathable air at 1bar

>>14604200
Venus excess Co2 could be distributed to Mars and other celestial bodies that need it, but thats about as useful as venus gets, it would just stay as the sahara desert of space where 1/4 of all land area in the solar system is locked by toxic clouds and hot temperatures

>>14604236
>Venus excess Co2 could be distributed to Mars and other celestial bodies that need it
How would you do that? with a fucking hose from venus to mars? Do you have any idea how long it would have to be?

>>14604183
More like a diving bell. Maybe make it negatively buoyant and then ditch the weight when you want to go back up
>>14604194
>why you would even go to Venus in the first place
Have you not heard? Women want go to Venus to get more penis. They know about the big dick Venusian aliens

ENTER

So SN24 is finally getting its engines.

>>14604239
just stripmine mercury bro, 1m hose should suffice
t.astronautical engineer specialized in hose

>>14604266
TPS... on the engines?
imagine the shedding

>>14604266
>RVAC2
You love to see it. We didn't hear anything about them before I don't think.

>>14604267
You should take a taste of my hose if you catch my drift;)

>>14604273
*Orbital drift

>>14604250
THIS IS WHAT THEY TOOK FROM US https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3dEl1cyAVQ

happen

>>14604301

>last elon tweet: 5 days ago
he's dead

Also, it looks like SpaceX is modifying two large vertical tanks to carry water.
According to tankwatchers.
>>14604272
I remember that they were tested at McGregor, but nothing more.

This is getting out of control...

The pad is closed, curious.

More people are interesting in watching nitrogen venting on the NSF live feed than this.

>>14604333
Because it's fucking filler. You always skip the filler.

>>14604333
there's a much higher chance of something exploding in the tank watching stream

>>14604330
>>14604318
Aren’t they not allowed to close stuff on weekends?

>>14604362
They didn't close the road.

what the fuck was that noise?

I've been out of this game for a year or so. What was the name of the SpaceX news youtuber that wore a cap all the time and simped for his breadwinning lawyer wife nonstop. I've completely forgotten and can't find him.

>>14604364
stay in your foxhole, don't peek it

>>14604374
spaceXcentric : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIp6_0kct_U

uhhhh...bros? is that supposed to happen

>>14604374
SpaceXcentric, previously Cloudlicker

>>14604311
He's deep in the South African veldt with his son that was recently in the news. He's gmi.

>>14604239
just use a portal gun bro

>>14604379
Thanks.

>>14604387
>just use a portal gun bro
What's a portal gun? A google search don't really give any straight forward explantation

>>14604383
A safari to toughen the lad up? I approve

>>14604281
>June 2022
why yes I will rewatch it again for the third time

Is planetary defense covered in the non nuclear proliferation treaty?

How would the US convince the UN that building planetary defense missiles would be a good investment (for shooting down incoming asteroids, or any other threat that may manifest from deep space)?

Contrary to what's depicted in Hollywood, current ICBM's cannot hit targets in deep space. A planetary defense missile must be able to be quickly mobilized to intercept targets either inside or outside the Earth's hill sphere. It must be able to sit unused and largely unmaintained for decades (it most likely will never be used), then quickly be activated and mobilized with mere days or even hours notice of an incoming bogey. This demands the use of hypergolic fuels, which NASA treats as taboo for usage in rocket core stages, but enjoys widespread use in russia.

Simply stated, the function of a planetary defense missile is to quickly deploy one or more nuclear warheads to incoming threats from deep space, in whatever form they may manifest. This may be the only sanctioned use of nuclear explosives that the public could accept.

>>14604455
They still don't know if a nuke would actually do anything to a rubble pile or even deflect an asteroid of sufficient mass

>>14604459
maybe it would fucking deflect an asteroid for once if the eyected material all came out in a single direction instead of the shit radially expanding sphere of plasma it nukes are in dpace

>>14604459
>>14604473
there's other things you can do with yuge nukes

>>14604026
>>14603991
>>14603956
Isn't the gravitational potential energy of 1 kg of fuel on the surface of Jupiter orders of magnitude higher than its chemical potential energy?

>>14604519
Why don't we just drop the sun out of orbit and use that energy to go interstellar?

>>14604539
then what about the photosynthetic on earth? plancton is 90% of life on earth

>>14603830
it only works because the star systems are so close together

It's still venting, guys...

>>14604481
Absolutely based. They should have done it already.

>>14604481
Thats about 10 beeg-tsar bombas
id say absolutely doable, but make sure to explode them on the side that faces earth
for good measure

>>14604519
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20170009136

It's been looked at, but it assumes magic nuclear engines to make it work

>>14604539
I wasn't implying that you could use the gravitational potential energy, but that Jupiter seems like a bad fuel depot because you have to spend almost all of your fuel to get it off Jupiter and the mass fractions are (if I understand it correctly) so crazy that it's impractical

>>14604562
>It's still venting, guys...
where can I watch?

>>14604592
https://youtu.be/mhJRzQsLZGg

>>14604611
>less than 800 people watching
its over

>>14604660
There's nothing scheduled for today, but there's a NOTMAR for tomorrow.

SaturnAnon here. I gave up on the manned Saturn mission in RSS because holy shit it was tedious. The Saturn Crew Vehicle required almost 20 Starship launches to build. Imagine how many it would take to build the Cargo and Fuel Transfer Vehicles, too.

I did have some fun replicating #DearMoon with Starship though.

>>14604689
yeah starship's gonna be a diaster for autist space simmers, having to grind 13 tanker launches for a single moon landing and god knows how many to replicate an actual honest-to-god manned interplanetary mission.
also try rss canaveral hd out for decent-looking launch pads

>>14604671
NOTMAR more like NOT MARS because it's over

>>14604455
We should have decent warning for the vast majority of serious impact scenarios, certainly enough that you wouldn't need ICBM style reaction time.
In fact from what I understand, all of the dinosaur killers in the belt are currently accounted for and their course plotted some 150 years into the future.

>>14604763
We even redirected Osiris-REX to go look at the most dangerous one, Apophis, after dropping off its sample return

>>14604768
tick tock :)

russia couldnt defeat starlink but could the space force?