/sci/ - Science & Math

Do other animals have the ability to want or consider dying intentionally?

I know animals can get sad but is it the same as depression for us

>>15070258
Have you met humans!? They're the worst.

>>15070258
Rationality is the forbidden fruit of evil. Rationality is not rational, it is the deception of the devil.

It's called the K-spot apparently killing oneself provides much pleasure especially if one hits themselves to death

>>15071793
IS ANYONE HERE GOING TO TRY THIS

>>15070258
Demonic possession. Also happens to animals.

Read Ligotti

>>15071802
yeah u need to be demonically possessed to hate life as a human being in the modern era, or really any era if your basic needs go unmet

retard

>>15070258
I'd say it is about the survival instinct. Other animals function almost entirely on instinct and one of the most powerful instincts is the survival instinct. Humans are less beholden to instinct and can instead decide for themselves what the purpose and objective of life is supposed. Sometimes humans with their reasoning and independent thought conclude that killing themselves is the best course of action.
So basically `yes' to your second question.

>>15071811
>yeah u need to be demonically possessed to hate life as a human being in the modern era
Hating life is one thing, wanting to hurt yourself does not make sense, it is just a demon putting thoughts inside your head.

Think about it logically, you have pain for a reason, your body does not like getting hurt, it wants you to survive, why the fuck would you want to kill yourself then? Surely the reason isn't in your body.

>>15072710
Could be a mechanism for kin altruism gone wrong. Because it would be advantageous to die for one identical twin, two brothers, or eight first cousins

>>15070258
>I have never heard of suicide bomber ants and insects, species of ant and insects with workers and members that are literally named after the consistent act of killing themselves.

>>15072802
Its a bit different anon. Those ants are programmed to die. A human's natural instinct when looking at a cliff would be to avoid the drop. People can overcome this and kill themselves despite their instincts telling them not too.

>>15072805
>Those ants are programmed to die.
Everything is programmed to die and OP's question was why are humans the only ones to do something that animals don't generally do, when, in fact, certain animals actually do that thing much more often than humans and OP is clearly mistaken with their line of questioning.

>>15072808
developing as part of a colony-based insect species certainly is different than being a human. but, sure man. good answer.

>>15070258
it's an energy, like a cold or sickness, a mental problem

>>15072808
>>15072815
i just realized this is why the call them bug people

They aren't intelligent enough to rationalize the decision of voluntary suicide. It's not like a painless suicide is an easy process to figure out either if all you have to work with are hooves

>>15072808
They're not the same, a suicide insect caste evolved to specifically hurl itself at the enemy, is a very different set of circumstances than a thinking human deciding to end it all in a act that has no evolutionary value

>>15072815
It wasn't an answer to the question, it was a demonstration that OP asked a bad question based on a setup that was a false premise. Packs and Tribes are also types of colonies, there are very few successful species of animals that don't employ group based survival mechanisms, but most animals will kill themselves in a variety of situations for even something as simple as feeling trapped or a bit hungry.

>>15072837
>a suicide insect caste evolved to specifically hurl itself at the enemy
Which means OP's premise is false, humans aren't the only animals that consistently tries to kill itself, there are numerous species that specifically evolved to kill themselves with little provocation.

Resources are finite, there is evolutionary value in reducing the number of things consuming the resources for the good of the tribe.

>>15070258
> Why are humans the only animal that consistently tries to kill itself
how do you know? how many animal species have you studied to come to this conclusion?

>>15072840
>t. bug person

>>15072849
Other animals who commit suicide don't count because they don't have human agency, so they aren't really killing themselves.

>>15072852
>they don't have human agency
yep, as always posters who claim the most retarded stuff hold religious views.
>>>/x/ is that way pal, there you can discuss all the pseudobabble that you like, such as the soul, consciousness or free will

>>15072853
Read the thread, other animals are just code for humans to exploit, they don't actually make decisions, they have instincts.

>>15072856
>other animals are just code
but for some obscure and magical reason, us, who are animals, aren't just code but have something else?
yep, schizos just can't stop schizn'!

>>15072861
The enlarged ventrolateral prefrontal cortex area that allows humans to actually introspect and transcend instinct unlike other animals is neither of those things.

>>15072864
>ventrolateral prefrontal cortex a little smaller
>no agency! only instinct!
>ventrolateral prefrontal cortex a little bigger
>suddenly we have agency that can transcend instinct!
imagine getting bamboozled like this lol

>>15072867
Its not smaller, it is completely absent in other animal species.

>>15070258
i guess this is one thing.
the conduct of our society is based on mental abuse, hierarchy, "achievements", and consumption.
we born into this world without knowing we are going to be controlled by institutions, working for years around the clock in a meaningless sisyphean and monotonous job just to get the right to a house(no you can't build your own), dealing with unrelenting pressure, competitors, enemies, a mentality of war worship and restlessness. wherever you go and whatever you do you will find yourself subject to these things

>>15072870
>we have a bodily characteristic that is augmented with respect to other animals, and that's where agency emerges
>so that's it? we have a little bigger body part and that's where are agency comes from?
>B-BUT THERE ARE ANIMALS WHO DON'T EVEN HAVE THIS BODY PART!!!
lol, you just can't keep on topic, can't you?
whatever, schizo, keep believing whatever bullshit this is

>>15072876
The topic OP was already proven wrong about because he was basing it on a false premise like humans are the only animals that commit suicide?

>>15072889
>Bugman GPT can only compute exact wording

>>15072843
No.
Humans are special and have a soul, so you can't be making any sense. I know because... I JUST DO OKAY?

>>15072896
OP was wrong in context and in exact wording, though, a lot of animals consistently kill themselves, humans are not special.

>>15070258
>Ever since recorded history there have been stories about humans killing themselves.
Kind of like how there have been stories about whales intentionally beaching themselves ever since recorded history recognized the known existence of whales?

>>15071802
Prove demons are real, fiction believer.

>>15072918
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU.
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU.
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU.

>>15070258
My hypothesis is that humans developed an ego to ensure that they make a meaningful contribution. If your ego is hurt it means you can do more then you do currently and you are faced with a choice. You either improve yourself and start producing value or if you realize you can't do that you do the second best thing which is to eliminate yourself as a strain on your clan since you probably won't be able to raise children effectively anyways. Animals don't have an ego because the value they produce is just to get children and feed themselves, for them to have an ego and feel ashamed would be overkill.

>>15072928
You have never caught a dog eating its own shit if you don't think they can feel ashamed.

>>15070258
Monkeys kill their own kind all the time during territory wars and dominance disputes. Dolphins will tag team and bully other dolphins ( to the point of them dying from their wounds and lack of eating from fear of more bullying) , just for fun.
It's not exclusive to humans and seems to happen more the smarter the species is

>>15072936
This.
The idea that biology is 100% non-conscious until suddenly you get to humans is 1800s level thinking.
Often the self-awareness is partial when you compare it to what humans do, but it's there in all sorts of animals. Especially social ones.

>>15072936
did you ever watch germen porn?

>>15073027
Like with german shepherds?
Even they look ashamed after pounding some fat ugly lady who gives german shepherds a go.

>>15072770
>mechanism
Shut up fag, nature isn't deterministic

>Because it would be advantageous to die for one identical twin
Not even your speculations make semse

>>15072840
blowing yourself up because you're pre-programmed for the protection of a colony is different than humans living in a colony or a human willingly killing themself to end pain. end of discussion. quit acting retarded.

Humans have extremely developed social sector in their brain. More than any other animal I think. Social pressure leads to extreme guilt and self isolation that other animals just don’t experience as much.

>>15070258
It's because we find some sick joy in making someone else so upset they stop competing with us for scarce resources.

>>15070258
>is there something inside humans the uniquely allows them to rationalize ending their life.
Yes! Its called consciousness. It allows one to rationalize, and therefore is anti-Darwinian. The later products of natural selection will have less and less conscious awareness because being conscious to too high a degree destroys the organism. It may be that there were earlier hominids with greater powers of self reflection that yeeted themselves out of the gene pool by being outbred by duller races. What's happening in the world right now is just nature winning over conscious reflection.

Zapffe on the tragedy of overdeveloped consciousness:
https://youtu.be/Yr4ZfEf-lF0

Watts on the disutility of conscious deliberation:
https://youtu.be/v4uwaw_5Q3I

Remember that contraception involves heightened future-time orientation. Those with less will outbreed those with an abundance.

>>15070258 Perfect example of a typical shitpost.

Read this and case closed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_suicide

They can already predict the outcome. Its shit.