/sci/ - Science & Math

Kristallnacht 2.0 when Trump is jailed. Get ready chuds.

The Great White Awakening is almost here.

>>15694547
>They absorb all solar energy
We wish

I figure the effective albedo of a solar panel is probably 0, but instead of reradiating all it's absorbed energy normally, it distributes the reradiation more widely and in an unpredictable spectrum.
so installing a solar farm is about as good at combating global warming as installing an equal area of asphalt parking lot

>>15694547
Yeah, the electricity ends up not mattering on a global scale since it all ends up as heat in the end, so it's just the albedo of the panels. Maybe .1? They're pretty dark. I'm sure someone has measured it.

>>15695697
An asphalt parking lot doesn’t produce electricity. I know, technically it’s technology, but I am disappointed that I need to make this clear on a science board.

>>15694598
2 more weeks, patribots in control

>>15695957
yeah but he thinks all electricity ends up as heat in the end so in his mind it is like a parking lot. he implies there's zero work done with said energy.

>>15694598
lol stfu

>>15696821
>Kristallnacht 2.0
>confederate
low IQ. sorry, it's genetic

>>15696899

>>15695957
>electricity that ends up being used to boil water on an electric stove

>Energy can neither be created nor destroyed
but also
>Solar panels save energy
which one is it?
can't be both

>>15697521
these people vote

>>15694547
Your choice of picture will make this thread hard to work, not sure what you intended here.
As for albedo, it depends. Best commercial panels are about 20 percent efficient, the rest turns to heat which is re-radiated out, unless you also apply water cooling, which also improves efficiency.
Plants have the red edge, not sure why they don't do something similar with solar panels.

>>15695957
>he actually thinks solar panels produce any substantial amount of electricity to offset their land, infrastructure, and resource costs
ngmi
You can also use a parking lot for many things, a solar field is rendered useless

>>15696821
What, are you some reddit tourist that comes here because he secretly slightly dislikes black people? It's time to go back retard

>>15697763
>this picture emotionally triggers me
thanks for letting us all know, how much energy does to water cooling system for solar panels require an is that more than the benefit it produces?

>>15697531
>>>/pol/

>>15695697
The brainpower of a retard always amazes me, they can even type stuff.
Solar panel or not, the energy is coming from the sun. What a solar panel does is AVOID burning fossil fuels on top of the already coming solar energy.

>>15698078
>>this picture emotionally triggers me
Hardly, and being European I don't have a pony in that race.
>thanks for letting us all know, how much energy does to water cooling system for solar panels require an is that more than the benefit it produces?
Cooling depends on a lot. If you use the thermal energy to heat a swminning pool, the cooling is for free. You could take it a step further with a combined day/night cycle:
- During the day, store the heat in large tanks, say 100 m2 panels and 10 m^3 tanks. It does not take much to bring this close to the boiling point, but you really don't want to go above 40 C.
- During the night, use the stored heat to power a Stirling engine, and use the solar panels as a heat sink. Better yet, dump the heat using a series connection, say hot water mantle, then swimming pool, then solar panels.
That way you should get about 1 KW electic power during the night, while limiting thermals cycling and wear of the solar panels, and the cooling is only the cost of running a small pump and operating valves.

>>15699266
Sounds like a good system, have you tried assembling something like it yet?

>>15699939
I haven't but I know of people who have made parts of it. Most are surprised how much power there is in sunlight and one had to install a UPS to make sure pump always operated so that the working fluid didn't start boiling.

>>15694547
This is another stunt to grift his fans.
>please send money, only you can help this poor billionaire buy another [get out of jail free card]

>>15700217

>>15694547
>lust provoking image
but seriously neck yourself OP

>>15700902
>lust provoking image
get the TDS vax

>>15698483
installing a large area of asphalt or an equal area of solar panels avoids allowing solar radiation to reflect off the surface of the planet and be transmitted back into space.

>>15703456
Night time thermal radiation is also greater.

>>15703544
>i'm concerned about global warming
>thats why i want a bunch on unnatural nighttime thermal radiation to prevent the planet from cooling off at night as it otherwise would
>lets cut down a bunch of forests that capture and store solar radiation as physical mass and take a bunch of CO2 out of the atmosphere and replace them with pitch black heat sinks because i'm concerned about global warming

>>15703551
>thats why i want a bunch on unnatural nighttime thermal radiation to prevent the planet from cooling off at night as it otherwise would
Are you older than 18?

>>15696059
That is how electricity works. 100% of the energy used to do work becomes waste heat. The idea that the waste heat means solar panels will heat up the Earth more than fossil fuels is still retarded, even discounting ghgs since they produce more waste heat from the inefficiency of the system.

>>15704056
>The idea that the waste heat means solar panels will heat up the Earth more than fossil fuels is still retarded
fossil fuels are stored solar energy and you can burn them without inducing the urban heat island effect

>>15704546
You have no idea what the urban heat island effect is and fossil fuels do contribute to it. They also create greenhouse gasses, particulate pollution, and poisonous byproducts which continue heating the atmosphere and causing lung disease long after we've gotten any use out of them. Only a retard would try to defend them as a source of energy.

>>15703551
>lets cut down a bunch of forests that capture and store solar radiation as physical mass and take a bunch of CO2 out of the atmosphere and replace them with pitch black heat sinks because i'm concerned about global warming
Or we could just put them over crops
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrivoltaics

>>15704856
Theres some ethanol powerplants in Brazil

>>15697768
Why not shade the parking lot with solar panels, 2 birds etc

>>15704546
>you can burn them without inducing the urban heat island effect
Well actually burning coal allowed for the development of urban centres...

>>15703551
>People cut down forests to build solar farms
lol

>>15705609
biomass energy is the absolute worst use of land imaginable. You get more energy from putting solar above your field and eating the crops, or skipping the crops and just using solar.

>>15705922
This. Every parking lot should be required to have solar panel shades.

>>15703456
Large areas of foliage effectively capture sunlight and prevents it from being re-radiated into space....

However, some fraction of this energy remains captured for the order of millions of years...

>>15706236
I proposed this idea a few weeks ago on /sci/.

It would likely save numerous lives of pets and children each year.

Onto the discussion at hand, as people have noted, it's not simply about the albedo itself, it's about the further consequences of how the heat is distributed.

For example: Hot parking lots cause people to crank up their A/C.

Solar Panels displace power generated from the above mentioned sources of coal or oil.

Ultimately, one of the greatest concerns is labor. Solar panels are GREAT labor. Compare maintaining solar panels to maintaining a coal fired power plant and realize the savings in human time and risk.

>>15706652
It would be great, but it's probably not going to happen because businesses will only see a price tag.

>>15705922
>2 birds etc
nope, the solar panels have the same albedo as the parking lot, they just transfer the heat around more broadly before its reemitted.

>>15707865
>A shade won't keep your car cool because the shade will heat up
How are you this stupid?

>>15707987
>cars don't shade parking lots

>>15709249
I genuinely don't understand how you can be as stupid as this. The point is to KEEP YOUR CAR FROM GETTING HOT. Do you like burning your hands on the steering wheel and wasting fuel on your air conditioning just to bring the temperature from 120 down to 90?

>>15709635

>>15709680
Stay mad, retard. You're the only one who ever needed the concept of shading a car explained to them.

>>15706633
lol good pic

>>15706234
>reeeeeeeeeeeee
lmao u mad

>>15711793
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetic_efficiency
>For actual sunlight, where only 45% of the light is in the photosynthetically active wavelength range, the theoretical maximum efficiency of solar energy conversion is approximately 11%. In actuality, however, plants do not absorb all incoming sunlight (due to reflection, respiration requirements of photosynthesis and the need for optimal solar radiation levels) and do not convert all harvested energy into biomass, which results in a maximum overall photosynthetic efficiency of 3 to 6% of total solar radiation.[1]

6% at most of the solar energy will be stored in biomass. To extract this energy you have to burn it which will be done with a maximum of 60% efficiency leaving you with 3.6% of the solar energy. It you could use solar panels which have a 20% efficiency and enjoy the having 5 times the electricity. Alternatively you can use agrivoltaics to generate electricity while increasing the yield of certain crops and most livestock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrivoltaics

Compared to either of those devoting a huge parcel of land to growing switchgrass for a fraction of the return is a complete waste of time.

>>15712797
>wikipedia

>>15713114
Find any fault on either of those pages.

i do not care for solar panels on the ground
having energy generation for 2/3 of the day at best is abysmal
make a sun energy harvesting power plant up in space where it can work 24/7

>>15714133
Freeman Dyson says global warming is fake
>>/sci/thread/15467339

>>15694547
https://youtu.be/Oh5j7s1H7ek

>>15715596
>ballots don't scan right (stuck together, count doesn't match what it's supposed to be, or whatever)
>delete batch
>rescan
wow it's fucking nothing

>>15715651