/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14751962
delete

>>14751962
>thread post number lines up with the anniversary year
Neat

>captcha: P0GRST

>>14751962
why are you putting some literally who humans as the OP pic of a spaceflight thread?

>>14751962
so many CCCP firsts...

>>14751962
FTS Archive
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KCJBL632oieD1r6JOh_5Eg9NTcf_-hH8?usp=sharing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYOhvqZVq08

"Space! That spacey space, that is. . .spacey. the space that when spaced out, can provide space. . .for space industry. That space."

Thomas777 on space

>>14751985

>>14751985
>>14751990
Who?

>>14751978
Based communists, Russia should be ashamed for squandering what they had

>>14751982
there he goes

>>14751994
The “ZOOMER guys ONLY wanna dress up like SAILOR MOON and try to fuck the SNORLAX Pokemon” guy

>>14752000
to where?????

>>14751996
What does the image end with Mars-3?

>>14752009
I don't know and I miss him already

>>14751978
Ameritards are obnoxious about the space race, but your picrel is forgetting:

>First photograph of earth - USA
>First ape in space - USA
>First geostationary orbit - USA
>First docking of two ships - USA
>First visits to Jupiter, Mercury, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune - USA

>>14752015
because it further curb stops the american scum

>I was interviewed yesterday for the upcoming BBC documentary "Magna Carta on Mars."

>>14752035
pretty arbitrary. Might as well say Americans were the first to put a NASA logo in space

>>14752035
In docking firsts the USSR is ahead
>first crew transfer
>first autonomous docking

>>14752046
>>14752068
>t.

Watching the Booster swing around under ropes gives me anxiety hooooly shit
BDSM Superheavy-Chan when????

>>14752035
>first rocket in space - Germany
>first cat in space - France
>first landing on comet - ESA

(European spaceflight is a fucking embarrassment holy shit)

>>14752100
First cat in space is a very important achievement.

>>14752100
Europe was destroying the commercial market with Ariane but they got complacent and never built a manned vehicle very sad

>>14752100
I think that the main problem is that Europe is divided into lots of nations and, most importantly, many governments, and getting them to work together is a nightmare.

Germany could build their own Starship and surpass the SpaceX program if they wanted to. Many great engineers there

>>14752119
They just have to legalize the nazi party.

>>14751962
I hate seeing humans in the OP like you wouldn't believe especially if it's related to politics, way to destroy a thread you fucking subhuman communist

>>14752125
Falseflagging commie. Soviet spaceflight is based. You’re trying to make the anti-Russia crowd look bad.

>>14752125
meds

>>14752125
>no spaceflight in my spaceflight thread >:(

>>14752093
cant come soon enough
cant cum soon enough

When will spacesuits stop being so bulky?

>>14751996
Russia post USSR is like Africa post colonization, they were given everything to be an industrial powerhouse and destroyed it all with corruption.

>>14752172
When we get powered exoskeletons, basically

>>14752173
bluepilled take

>>14752172
Its already happened. EVA suits would require more oxygen to be carried in the back

>>14752115
all government programs have to contend with the embezzlement tax, and the euros have a lot of governments all wanting their piece of the pie

>>14752119
they'd have to burn away all the red tape for that, and that idea burns krauts like holy water
if there's a german out there that doesn't get hard from paperwork, I've never seen them

>>14752188
Redpill me anon.
As far as I can tell Boris Yeltsin sold all the nations assets for cents on the dollar to the ruling class bankrupting the country while transfering trillions to his circle.

>>14752173
It's literally the opposite, they had everything stolen away from them by international financiers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU5FbiCbjic

2 hours till Starlink launch

>>14752115
that and no European actually feels like ESA is "their" space agency

the same issue that plagues EU and other pan-european institutions in everything. europeans don't feel like EU organizations, EU symbols, EU leaders, etc. are really their people

>>14752215
you can just call them what they are, anon
Jewish Oligarchs like Putin

>>14752172
Infinite Warfare is based and is the closest we’ll get to a FPS in the Expanse universe for a long while

>>14752243
>>14752173
Putin is unironically a bitch to powerful billionaires in his country.

>>14752251
yeah he's stuck running the country instead of stealing billions of dollars or whatever

>>14752253
>instead of stealing billions of dollars
ivan, please

>>14752239
Not my flag. Not my leaders. Not my space program. Not my union.

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2022/08/12/masten-gets-4-5-million-bid-for-assets-from-astrobotic-technology/

Astrobotic opening a bid to buy "substantially all of Masten’s assets"

>>14752239
I wish it only applied to EU. I don't even feel like politicians in the government are my people.

>>14752257
>Astrobotic suddenly corners CLPS
you hate to see it

>>14752256
Not my planet, either.

>>14752201
Africa is not a shithole because of "corruption" Saying it's corruption is just not looking straight at the problem.
>post colonization
before colonization they all literally lived in stone age tribes

so if temperature and oxidation weren't a problem for turbines, would a tap-off or gas generator cycle be used. Also which one would be more efficient

>>14752253
he can multitask

>>14752255
>>14752285
true, it's my impression that it's just theft all the way down over there
impossible to fucking budget when you don't know how much people are actually getting payed because it's all under the table

>>14752263
they aren't and haven't been in decades, and I can say that for sure without even knowing what country you're from

>stand outside to see the Perseideteor shower
>seen 1 meteor
>3 satellites
Man

>>14752312
say it

>>14752367
Update: 4 satellites

Paging Vice President Harris

Paging Vice President Harris

I don't wanna go if it fucks up my eyes wtf

>>14752401

Here we go, tell us about space Kamala

>>14752409
Space is a powerful black woman

>>14752417
who definitely doesn't need no man

I don't give a fuck about health insurance, tell us about Artemis and why it's cancelled

>Oakland had the first space telescope

Who fact-checked this speech

Today I will remind them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5PABXXdDwA

FIRST WOMAN AND PERSON OF COLOR

WE'VE GOT TO UPDATE THE RUUUUUUUULES

In before they specifically sabotage SpaceX again

https://youtu.be/SU5FbiCbjic
Turn off the propaganda and tune in to some shit getting thrown into space

>new rules
it's over

schizos were right

It's literally an announcement of an announcement

I've been blue balled

>>14752401
They should really throw a rotating cylinder module up there for sleep.

politicians should be glassed

lmao this fucking speech

>Oh shit, a private company is going to own a rocket bigger than the Saturn V and can sell it to anyone they want
>better uhhhhhh
>better update ITAR

>>14752449
neurotypicals, when will they learn?

hypothetically if an ex president took home some documents related to the nuclear capabilities of his country, what could he do with them?

>>14752477
Anything he wants, because he was the supreme classifying authority at the time they were allegedly removed

>>14752467
where did u watch?

>>14752508
https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1558200313517117441

Just follow Marcia Smith for all the space policy news. Shes always on top of policy department.

>>14752449
schizos said FAA wouldn't finish the environmental review until SLS launched

>>14752477
pretty much nothing
there's nothing about them that wasn't already known by every other major power, by design as to serve as a better deterrent against war
the chinese know about american warheads, all theirs are based off the W88 design they stole decades ago
everyone knows the number since that's the big stick that deterrence revolves around
and any codes would be fucking worthless since those change daily and have for decades

plus, the president is the peak authority in regards to classification
if he says something is declassified, then its declassified, his will be done unilaterally

>>14752515
FAA wont allow SpaceX to fly before SLS is the phrase, thats still likely to be true given they still havent given the launch license

>>14752515
oh so FAA granted spacex a license to launch? oh wait no they didnt. and never will until SLS laumches

>>14752515
Schizos said the government wouldn't allow Starship to launch until SLS launches. Has the government allowed Starship to launch yet?

>>14752514
>following a w*man
>following someone that writes like this
>need to update regs/rules to maintain US ldrship in space bc current rules written fordifferent century. Which is pretty much what FCC Chair Rosenworcel said last wk

LIVE
https://youtu.be/FLLUh8WGv9k

>>14752527
>Watching a man pretending to be a virtual w*man in a language you cannot understand

apollo 14 crew did a terrible job change my mind
>didn't label rocks well or take enough photos
>spent forever docking
>didn't make it to the important ridge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU5FbiCbjic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU5FbiCbjic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU5FbiCbjic


Music live

M U S I C

New Space Race needs New Rules, and I couldn't agree more. Thank you Vice President Kamala Harris and FCC chairwoman Jessica Rosenworcel. We need modern Regulations in Space, you said what we were Thinking, We Asked And You Answered. Also Thanks to the National Space Council for building the Foundation for New Space Rules, this will be necessary

>>14752532
also Mitchell is a wacko UFO dude who performed ESP tests in orbit without NASA knowing

>>14752536
Based. SpaceX needs to be stopped.

>>14752536
>Space
>Rules

SHALL

cute voice

>>14752484
https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2011/10/chung_petition/
>In the case of Dongfan Greg Chung, who was convicted on charges of economic espionage, a court ruled (and an appeals court last month upheld) that Chung would be sentenced under the guideline for “gathering national defense information” even though none of the information he handled was classified or even held by the government.

Unfortunately even if just keeping shit and not telling anyone counts as proper declassification you could still get into trouble if you did something stupid with the documents.

>>14752531
anon have you been masturbating to feminine boys so much you dont know a real woman when you see one? just sayin' your post is an epic fail

>>14752538
Based Shelbyposter

I'd love to provide fluids to this cute stream host, YOWZA!

why is watching launches live so much more excitiing

>>14752548
Anything can happen

>>14752548
Because it might blow up, but the falcon never does

>literally launching from a parking lot

>>14752554
SpaceX DABBING on Astra

>still stuck at 10th flight

>>14752537
> anon thinks he's superior to an Apollo OG
lol lmao

>>14752534
Jesus do they have new camera angles? Around one minute the camera spun to keep the track and it looked like the rocket started pitching to hell.

>>14752570
kek, i thought the same

>>14752537
>NOOO YOU CANT JUST RUN YOUR OWN EXPERIMENTS TO DISCOVER NEW THINGS
>YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE NASARINO

>>14752570
For a second I thought a KSP player was in charge of the pitch for this flight

>>14752576
>Falcon 9 does a flip during ascent

>>14752577
>still delivers payload

>>14751978
if you're going to keep posting that at least change it to say laika was the first animal in orbit

Estonia seems fake

uh oh

>>14752586
is that an MMORPG town center

her english is getting better :3

>Lands F9 offcenter twice in a row
>Planning to catch Super Heavy

>still not completely on the center
embarrassing

>>14752590
Unironically go outside, touch grass, have sex.

>>14752590
AI tends to, even if it is Chinese

Wow i really don’t like the announcers voice. Also I thought the Falcon 9 was flopping over goddamn

>>14752590
MaxQute

only 160km orbit?

>>14752591
Superheavy will hover

>>14752591
>>14752592
>they got tired of repainting it

it's over

>>14752593
i am outside rn but grass does not grow here

>>14752598
Parking orbit for safety. They'll raise orbit after assessing the health of the sats

>>14752604
Based Moon poster.

>>14752604
Where is 'here?'

>>14752593
> imagine being such a hateful faggot
sad honestly

I just realized that they used to intentionally make the landing feed bad so that they can now say how much they improved it with Starlink

There are 4 falcon heavy launches this year alone and I will never get to witness a single Heavy launch+landing
I just wanna see the dual landing once in my life

>>14752588
No, it's the town center of an mmorpg in an anime. Very different.

>>14751978
Both Soviet and American Space programmes were built by Germans. Both programmes died out with their builders dying off.

What did SpaceX mean by this?

>>14752612
Imagine not hating degenerates because you're also a degenerate which instils the false belief that it makes you superior. Sad, honestly.

is Webb even doing anything, I'm not seeing any pictures or scientific results except for scientists writing papers about the redshifts of galaxies in that first deep field

>>14752625
a poast that gets it right for once

>>14752625
>>14752638
Wrong. Soviet space program was built by Ukrainians faggot

>>14752401
first people on mars are going to go insane

Fresh air is for EARTHERS

apparently Musk promoted the hyperloop projet only to the some rail project canceled so people would use cars, what a fucking prick. you know there's a middle ground where you can admit that he is lying prick and still think his companies are great

>>14752669
spaceflight?

>>14752669
Cope also nigga speak english

>>14752283
Tap-off, and it's more efficient. In terms of hardware, and ignoring thermal issues, tap-off is simpler easier and lighter, and since it's using a gas mixture that's hotter it can use that gas to do more work, therefore getting more turbopump power for the same mass flow rate, resulting in higher thrust and Isp since most of the propellant goes through the main combustion chamber and out the nozzle. In real life, thermal issues make tap-off and gas generator roughly on par in terms of performance, but GG is also easier, so everyone uses it unless they're dumb like BO.

>>14752669
AI Bot is starved of compute resources.

>>14752119
They have to find their balls first

>>14752684
keck

>>14752691
Is a great space observatory

SF on Monday.

>>14752684
it's just me being starved of sleep or I'm having a mini stroke

>>14752694
you passed the vibe check anon

>>14752677
in this hypothetical scenario the temperature in the gas generator and the combustion chamber would be the same considering the gases can be mixed in the perfect ratio

>>14752630
Can satelites orbit criss cross every direction, or do all satelites pretty much orbit the same direction, with the rotation of earth?

>>14752723
Shell 3 is in SSO, so about an inc of 97, most satellites do orbit with the rotation of the earth but not all, (see: Retrograde orbits)

this will be mars one day

>>14752669
You think I care?

>>14752705
>in this hypothetical scenario the temperature in the gas generator and the combustion chamber would be the same considering the gases can be mixed in the perfect ratio
Tap off is still lighter, since you don't have the gas generator combustion chamber and ignition system.

>>14752723
>Can satelites orbit criss cross every direction
yes
> or do all satelites pretty much orbit the same direction, with the rotation of earth
more or less, because it's easier

Did anyone else think the Falcon 9 was going to flip over at first?

>>14752189
Are the SpaceX EVA's really going to be that small?

>>14752813
No, they will be augmented. Just wait.

>>14752810
no

https://youtu.be/3D_34C6V2RQ
ADD TO YOUR NOTIFICATIONS

First for big beautiful balls

>>14752844
Pathetic

>>14752844
cute

>>14752844
pathetic rocket and cute vtuber

>>14752844
I hope it goes well just so clear won't be sad.

>>14752844
S

>>14752844
Just looking at orange rocket is enough to fill me with disgust now, I honestly don't give a fuck what they do with it anymore

>>14752844
Stop posting that abomination.

>>14752844
giant lump of dogshit stood on its end

>>14752844
Insanely based

>>14752844
For some reason seeing this makes it seem more real .. Jesus...

>>14752844
Based

>SLS reaches orbit before Starship

>>14752904
It would be hilarious if Starship beat SLS to orbit tho. Hilarious and sad. Getting beat by both Falcon Heavy and Starship.

But we can't allow that to happen.

>The senator administrator clutches his monkey's paw, making feverish demands demands of it.
>"SLS MUST LAUNCH FIRST, IT MUST LAUNCH BEFORE STARSHIP"
>A finger curls on the monkey's paw
Indeed SLS will launch before Starship.

>>14752931
given that the boosters are nearly eight months past the use-by date this is a very real possibility.

>>14752904
>>14752909
It would be even more hilarious if SLS went RUD on a launch attempt.

>>14752943
personally I believe boeing's spaghetti code will doom SLS, it will be something extremely amateur that fails, like guidance, valves, copvs, or staging.

>>14752947
>launch SLS
>it just goes straight up

>>14752951
The ksp method: only turn when youre out of the atmosphere. it just doesnt feel right otherwise

Just spent ~2 hours outside looking out for the Perseid meteor shower, counted 10 shooting stars and 15 satellites.

In addition to those I saw something really weird that I can't really definitely explain
The object was very bright, hazy, and moved at the speed of a LEO satellite. I thought that it might have been a reentering satellite, but it didn't flicker or leave any kind of trail behind it like most other space debris I've seen video of. In addition to that it traveled across the entire night sky without losing or gaining brightness

Here's the streamable link since FFmpeg is a cunt and doesn't care to work:
https://streamable.com/i562zv

>>14752669
go back

>>14752956
Serious question: How do you determine when to do your gravity turn?

>>14752961
how the hell should i know? it's a miracle i accomplish anything in ksp. best i can do is a duna lander one time, and im too stupid to do it again

https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/115

>Price: $876.0 million
kek

>>14752961
My true and tested way is to be at 45 degrees at 10km and at around 30 degrees at 20km
After that try and keep your apogee always ~50 seconds away until you reach your parking orbit
Try and find a balance between needing altitude and speed

>>14752979
That must be before inflation

are you ready anons?
starship is about to be regulated to death
https://spacenews.com/harris-says-u-s-to-update-commercial-space-regulations/

>>14752997
Guess they haven't updated the price since 1981.

>>14752961
If F/mg is assumed to be constant, then it can be solved analytically. I bet the big boys are doing something much more sophisticated using Monte Carlo methods or something.

>>14753005
why are these bureaucrats so VAGUE

>>14753034
We got the announcement of the announcement my dude, the actual details are coming out when the Space Council releases its ideas

I'd expect nothing less than a space debris nonproliferation treaty, some analogue of the Geneva Convention for the use of spacecraft for military purposes, and a general push to get everyone with a demonstrated ability to put things in orbit to sign a treaty preventing the use of weapons in space

Then more locally I'd expect the FCC and FAA to be stripped of their regulatory activities extending beyond earth's atmosphere, with some actual agency becoming space cops

>>14753045
lmao at that last part. good fucking luck.

On the topic of gravity turn failures, I present Mercury-Atlas 3
> The launch proceeded normally until about T+20 seconds when the pitch and roll sequence failed to initiate and the vehicle instead just continued flying straight upward.
>Seconds after the launch, a note of anxiety crept into the Welsh accent of Tec Roberts, the flight dynamics officer (FIDO) responsible for launch and orbital trajectory control, as he reported, 'Flight, negative roll-and-pitch program.' A collective shudder went through everyone in the control room as the controllers absorbed the chilling significance of Roberts's terse report.
> The roll-and-pitch program normally changed the initial vertical trajectory of the launch into a more horizontal one that would take the Atlas out over the Atlantic. This Atlas was still inexplicably flying straight up, threatening the Cape and the surrounding communities.
>The RSO (range safety officer) monitoring the launch confirmed the lack of a roll-and-pitch program, then continued to give the Atlas an opportunity to recover and start its track across the Atlantic. The RSO lifted the cover on the command button and watched as the Atlas raced to a fatal convergence with the limits on his plot board.
>At forty-three seconds after liftoff, Roberts reported, 'The range safety officer has transmitted the destruct command.'
> Only 43 seconds after liftoff, Mercury-Atlas 3's mission ended in a rain of fiery debris falling back to Earth. The escape tower activated the moment the destruct command was sent and lofted Mercury spacecraft #8 to safety.
> Investigation of telemetry data quickly narrowed the cause of the failure to a fault somewhere in the guidance system, but the exact nature of it could not be determined.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury-Atlas_3

STAY ANGRY
ABOUT SPACE

>>14753055
Here’s a video of the failure
https://youtu.be/gLGy4TfMdpA

>>14753061
I had to unsub from this guy

>>14753086
why's that? and why would you ever subscribe in the first place?

>>14753061
>>14753088
He had decent takes during the HLS competition era but now he just shits on SpaceX

>>14752961
Trust your gut and fly by the seat of your pants.

>>14752961
You tilt the craft at the launchpad and keep launching+changing the tilt until you can reach a semi circular orbit without inputs

Why do some starlink satellites travel in a line but most are free flying?

https://satellitemap.space/

>>14753153
line ones are recently launched and haven't spread out yet

what the FUCK are they doing with the Apollo liquid hydrogen tank? repurposing old stuff has always turned out to be a bad idea.

>>14753061
Have watched very little of his recent stuff, but he's always been overly black and white about everything. He gets facts wrong and/or misses important points every video. He seems to like or dislike things with no rhyme or reason and will ignore the facts that counter that opinion. Sure maybe some of it is just a "character", but the fact that he needs to play such an overly reactionary character to make ends meet is a sad reflection of the modern world.

>>14753160
Who's repurposing it? Chances are you could put any other non-hypergolic propellant into that tank and it would be milder on the materials than liquid hydrogen anyway.

>>14752844
WE ARE GOING

>>14753197
TO
HELL

>>14753153
>This triggers the astronomer

>>14753310
sfg will be the talk of the town when sls launches so prepare for a whole lotta newfriends!

>>14753310
It could be worse. We could be /stg/

>>14753316

>>14753327
of course

>>14753316
i love newfrebs :)

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1558303186326265857
Installing inner engines already

>>14753316
i hate newfags

HOLY FUCKING SHIT THE SLS JUST FLEW DIRECTLY INTO THE VERTICAL ASSEMBLY BUILDING, KILLING UNTOLD THOUSANDS

>>14753336
>>14753341
We have to stop them. Space flight general should be removed from the thread title and the OP image should be as unappealing as possible

>>14753339

Is that the wide bay? Doesn't look too big.

>>14753348
>sls kills thousands of minorities and women
based

>>14753348
You just predicted the season finale of For All mankind in a way

>>14753348

>>14752961
as soon as I've cleared the pad and all my supports

>>14753348
VAB was an inside job

>>14753348
I love that someone saved this.

>>14752089
>>14752102
I miss my dead cat bros

>>14753424
please don't. i sometimes forget about the sweetheart i grew up with and then remember :'(

>>14753379
This but unironically. Falcon 9 pitches downrange after like 15 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck5z0uMGz8s

Also since when did they stop streaming Starlink deploy?

>>14753194
Spacex is repurposing it (it might be from shuttle not Apollo idk). It'll either be methane or oxygen for Starship at 39a.
I guess it's milder but repurposing old stuff and then regretting not just having built a new thing is a recurring theme in Elon ventures.

>>14753440
>since when did they stop streaming Starlink deploy
since the DoD started flying hosted payloads on Starlink sats

>>14753440
>Also since when did they stop streaming Starlink deploy?
Seems like ten launches or so ago now.

>>14753443
SpaceX has repurposed old tanks for GSE storage quite often, actually.

>>14753424
RIP cat bro. I have no clue what I'll do when my little guy has to go.

>>14753449
Odds the Starlink bus gets adapted into a Brilliant Pebbles system?

>>14752172
>spacesuit
>not pressurized

ngmi

>space flight general

For me it's pitbulls in space floating around trying to eat small child astronauts
>>14753484
0%, ion thrusters are based but they couldn't intercept shit.

>>14753504
>he doesn't know

>>14753514
>they couldn't intercept shit
it's not about the thruster but about the number of satellites and number of orbital planes.
i wouldn't be surprised if accurate interception is feasible with a 40000 sat constellation

>>14753527
>it's not about the thruster but about the number of satellites and number of orbital planes.
You still need to be able to adjust the vehicle track to actually intercept the target, and then compensate for whatever collision avoidance capabilities might exist in the missile. Starlink could be adapted into a Brilliant Pebbles type system, but it would probably be in the form of a system bus carrying a Lockmart style, hypergolic propelled kinetic kill vehicle.

>>14753532
right if there is any collision avoidance at all then you're out of luck with an ion thruster.
but intercepting a ballistic trajectory is just a numbers game even if you got the wimpiest propulsion.

>>14753527
>>14753539
If the ICBM is aimed at the empty space between the orbital planes, a Starlink interceptor would have to do a large inclination change within like ten minutes from the point of detection. It's pretty much impossible.

>>14753526
What wrong so wrong, Chinabros?

>>14753593
And according to this it only has like 130 m/s of dV once at its operational altitude. I suspect it would take more than an hour for a 1 m/s burn.
https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/36455/delta-v-of-starlink-satellites

>>14753593
>a large inclination change
it's definitely not going to be large. you haven't ran the numbers for a 40000 satellite constellation. you have a million satellites in LEO and you can intercept anything ballistic with a mouse fart thruster, that's my point.
starlink phase 1 already has 190 distinct orbital planes at different inclinations.

>>14753625
No you can't. Try it in KSP with the ion thruster that has ten times the thrust as it should.

>>14753633
Yes you can, with a bunch of tries. In real life, computers can perform the optimal outcome on the first try, as long as it’s possible

>>14753633
My intuition is the scaling laws make the minimal dv for intercept become extremely low as you add more shells at similar altitudes but different inclinations.

>>14752517
>>14752518
>>14752525
moving goalposts

>>14753351
I will be advertising the launch thread on every major board, facebook, twitter, reddut, and discord

>>14753746
Ok we get it, you love suckin biden's wrinkly cock

My incandescent, searing hatred of earthers has only intensified with time.

>>14752677
Why cant one big turbo pump power multiple engines? Why all they engines need they own turbo pump?

>>14752961
>not carefully placing one lone battery on the west side so the craft naturally does a gravity turn
Total scrubs. Ishsfgddt

>>14753787

>>14752669
I think he's a piece of shit but he's also a billionaire advancing space flight which I like.

>>14752849
I'll never understand making them different sizes
>you need more LOX
I know, still all the extra tooling and cost of making two different sizes just doesn't make sense to me, you can partially fill the zero tank.

>>14752625
There were no Germans in the Soviet program after 1953, and they stopped working directly on new projects in 1947.
Their main role was showing the Soviets how to build the A-4 rocket, beyond that they didn't do much.

>>14753351
While it's going to suck for awhile the more people that are interested in space the better it is for spaceflight in general.
Imagine a world where space policy is a major election issue.

>>14752172
Maybe with some elastic materials? There where some experiments with super right suits that were promising. Maybe they even could shrink and exoand if needed

>>14753776
cope

>>14752367

It’s absurd how often and easy it is to see satellites now, I remember 20 years ago you might see roughly 6-8 a night, but now you almost can’t look without seeing one nearly immediately, The other day I saw at least 1 every 3 or 4 minutes, sometimes even more than 1 at the same time.

ITS OVER

>>14753873
meh

>>14753873
thanks reddit

>Adding the 13 inner engines

>>14753872
When I go stargazing, I can see some low brightness stars, but I fail to see any satellites (read: Starlinks) which have similar magnitude of brightness. Even when Stellarium says they should be there. Why is this?

>>14753873
>The phrase "objects in (the) mirror are closer than they appear" is a safety warning that is required[a] to be engraved on passenger side mirrors of motor vehicles in many places such as the United States, Canada, Nepal, India, and South Korea.
amazing

>>14753912
it's needs to be near dusk or dawn so you are in night but the satellites are high enough to be in sunlight.

>>14753673
You are fundamentally not understanding the space involved, but also mostly how incredibly weak hall effect thrusters are.

Dividing the LEO surface area into 40,000 plots gives you a maximum interception distance of around 80km.
Assuming that you detect the ICBM launch immediately, you have less than 5 minutes to intercept during boost phase, and about 30 minutes to intercept during late mid-course/terminal (this is for effectively maximum range) after the re-entry vehicles (and potentially decoys) have separated from from the payload bus.

We can estimate that at the higher end, starlink sats have a thrust of 0.03N (it could be as low as half of this based on what we know).
With a mass of 227kg for the lightest starlink sat, this means an acceleration of
0.00013 m/s2.
That means over 30 minutes the starlink sat could change position by 210m with a total deltaV of 0.23 m/s
Of course plane change maneuvers are nowhere near this straightforward in reality.

If you performed the plane change maneuver at the perfect time, aka a quarter orbit away, with an impulsive burn (IE infinite acceleration) with an interception time of ~25 minutes, it would require ~ 100 ms deltaV for a total inclination change of ~0.7°.
Obviously the Starlink sat cannot do anything close to an impulsive burn, even for only 100 m/s deltaV.

For a boost phase intercept the inclination could be much larger depending on the acceleration of the ICBM and the warning time, with 5 minutes warning the deltaV increases to ~300 ms, with 1 minute as high as 1500.

uhh spacebros... what is this?

>>14754004
That's not a creature is it?

>>14754004
It’s still funny to me how much someone has to grasp at straws to call that a rat

>>14753999
So what you're saying is that we're going to have two shells of tens of thousands of satellites, one for Starlink and one for the pebbles?

>>14754014
Getting a pebbles system for SL is retarded. Starlink sats are too low in the atmosphere and too cheap to be worth the trouble
If the US goes to war with someone, SL becomes a valid military target due to its comms range, but if a country were to blow a few out of the sky, they likely wouldn’t get into hot international waters because of it. That’s because SLs orbit very low and hence wouldn’t leave junk behind for long

>>14754004
>this again
Get some new material.

>>14751979
"Undramatic But Important", Soyuz-9's mission brief on the English section of the paper, so no need to translate it.
One bit that surprised me is that the image shows the Soyuz rocket, when I thought earlier that the Soyuz rocket and spacecraft became more public only in 1975 with ASTP

>>14753782
earth literally brings out the worst in mankind. you can't change my mind on this

>>14753610
America failed to fail.

I never realized that a planet with 4x the mass of Earth only needed 2x the radius to have the same surface gravity until just now after fiddling around with a calculator. Of course also has 4x the surface area as well. I wish I knew how to calculate the delta-v required to reach orbit on such a planet.

>>14754167
>I wish I knew how to calculate the delta-v required to reach orbit on such a planet.
Calculate the velocity of a low orbit around planet and subtract the planet's surface velocity due to its rotation. A shortcut that mostly works is calculating the planet's escape velocity.

>>14754167
planet that size would probably cuck any civilization living on it out of space forever

launching from earth's gravity is hard enough as is

Tim too musklets. Stalink's 888 million dollar subsidy: gone. Boca Chica launch approval: Constantly delayed, then a couple of token launches approved. EV subsidy: Tesla gets the short stick. Elon has been allowed to dictate how the future should be, but not anymore. The government is turning on him. His dumb space colonization meme takes away the focus from real issues like climate change.

>>14754179
>Time
>journalism
Did the National Enquirer run a piece about him too?

>>14752115
The main problem is that Europe is filled with Europeans. The second biggest problem, a direct consequence of the first, is that Europe is filled with non-Europeans.

>14754004
oxygen snowflakes

Can someone deboonk my math? I think I just figured out the Starship+Super Heavy stack can function as a SSTO?
>Starship
>Dry mass: 85t
>Propellant mass: 1200t
>Payload: 150t
>Booster
>Dry mass: 180t
>Propellant mass: 3300t
>Raptor Isp: 330s
>Total dV (assuming no staging): 9.4 km/s
So why don't they just stretch Starship to a single 120m long cylinder, cram 30 Raptors beneath it and launch the entire thing into orbit? Even if you consider added TPS mass, you could just decrease the final payload a little bit, or bump up Raptor performance.

>>14754179
oh no no no chuds it's really over this time isn't it

>>14752614
Elon is actually not Jewish

>>14754167
Would need half the density of Earth.

https://www.science.org/content/article/space-scientists-ready-starship-biggest-rocket-ever

>>14753316
Why would anyone come here to talk about explosions on earth?

>>14753787
For one thing, you’d be one pump failure away from catastrophic failure of the entire spacecraft

http://parabolicarc.com/2022/08/12/masten-gets-4-5-million-bid-for-assets-from-astrobotic-technology/
>Astrobotic Technology has made an initial bid of $4.5 million to acquire the assets of Masten Space Systems, which sought protection from creditors last month by filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The bid will serve as a minimum during the subsequent auction of Masten’s assets.
Gone but not forgotten

>>14753153
Can satelites orbit earth in all directions, or do they most easily and naturally by far orbit along with the direction of the Earth's rotation?

https://firefly.com/beta/
Firefly scrubbed "Beta" from its website (beyond the URL) and replaced it with soulless placeholder "MLV".

>>14754175
>escape velocity
15.83 km/s compared to Earth's 11.2 km/s.
>>14754176
Saturn V base delta-v:
>3407
>5509
>8635
>total 17551
With 20 ton payload:
>3358
>5163
>5789
>total 14310
With 10 ton payload:
>3383
>5330
>6870
>total 15583
So you pretty much need the entire Saturn V just to approximately match the capabilities of Falcon 9.

>>14754176
I think Earth is on the upper limit of "easy" space flight with chemical engines, if the atmosphere was much denser or the gravity much higher it would take nuclear drive for a basic BASEDUS / Mercury style mission.

>>14754243
Satellites don't give a fuck about the earth's rotation aside from any extra boost they might get during launch. All the earth's rotation can do is make wacky apparent orbits as seen from the ground.

>>14754309
At least there would be nobody obsessing over the SSTO meme.

>>14754334
So satelites orbit earth in all directions (besides around the poles)?

Like when looking at a traditional map, Canada being north, south america being south, satelites orbit roughly in the new Mexico to main direction; in the main to new Mexico direction
In the Florida to Oregon and Oregon to Florida direction?

And is there some rough distance from Earth's surface where average satelite will no longer orbit,?

The moon stays in earths orbit, but massive masses have more gravity, though little asteroids are also in orbit;

So the average man made satelite, can be made to stabley orbit earth at increments increasing in distance from Earth's surface, until, where about is the breaking point where a satelite would no longer orbit?.

>>14754334 #
So satelites orbit earth in all directions (besides around the poles)?

Like when looking at a traditional map, Canada being north, south america being south, satelites orbit roughly in the new Mexico to Maine direction; in the Maine to new Mexico direction
In the Florida to Oregon and Oregon to Florida direction?

And is there some rough distance from Earth's surface where average satelite will no longer orbit,?

The moon stays in earths orbit, but massive masses have more gravity, though little asteroids are also in orbit;

So the average man made satelite, can be made to stabley orbit earth at increments increasing in distance from Earth's surface, until, where about is the breaking point where a satelite would no longer orbit?.

>>14754393
>>14754334
What happens when satelites or objects travel over the poles, is the gravity field doing something weird there?

If you strongly spin and sphere on a table in dense air, the air reacts differently around the sides as it does on the top right, and this may if to the smallest degree suggest why the poles of earth may effect the surrounding gravity field differently.

But now what I don't get is how satelites could freely naturally travel in all directions around earth if it has anything to do with said rotationally aeffected medium mechanism.

The next thought then is something of vacuum, that the massive celestial bodies create a buffer zone, and yeah satelites orbit every which way precisely because there is no gravity field there.

But they remain with earth possibly because the gravity field ....no I don't get it

>>14754243
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZAkiXNJIqc&ab_channel=ScottManley

>>14753224
HELL IS JUST A WORD

What is the main difference between rotating detonation engines and conventional chemical engines?

>>14754004
that looks nothing like a rat retard, kys

>it’s August 2022 and all the booster has done is blow up and test a single engine

>>14754447
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG_Eh0J_4_s&ab_channel=ScottManley

>>14754399
not really, the earth mass isnt 100% uniform, the extremely tiny differences in gravity from place to place also apply to things in orbit, earths rotation combined with unequal mass distribution has an effect on an object orbit, its why extremely close orbits around the moon dont last long, gravitational anomalies fuck with things that are that close, but just being farther away can "smooth" the gravitational field

im using advanced harvardoxford sorbone poetry science superiority. Of course you never heard of it, oh yeah go ahead and "google it" bwahahahhahahahahahahaha its dleicious to speak to people who could devote their whole life to improving and owuldnt be better at a single task than i was at to from 12 years old bwhaha poetry masteprotery
you always
laways lose
no dont try
no
no teven there
masgterpotery
youalswyis l lose
youlose
iwin
sorryboy
demsthebreak yteaah including pop coulture in my aester csicnee poetry for hte winrrars now go cry boy, obey only option when youre faced with a superior

its over chuds, nextspaceflight concedes that SLS is more powerful then starshit

>>14753633
>Ten times
Ion drives in Ksp make 2 kN of thrust, the real life Dawn NSTAR ion thrusters made 90 mN of thrust.
That's not a 10x difference, it's a ~22,000x difference. Ion engines in Ksp are closer to small torch drives than they are to actual ion drives, they are very literally overpowered.

>>14754543

>>14754549
would KSP style ion drives be possible with nuclear electric engines?

>>14754549
Do you think KSP 2 will change that now that they'll have thrusting during timewarp?

>>14754560
SLS Block 2 is still in the fantasy realm, lol.

>>14753673
The delta V gets lower but if your propulsion system takes a day to accelerate you by 30 m/s, it's useless as an intercept option.
In real life a brilliant pebble system would use ion propulsion for initial orbit raising and stationkeeping, perhaps for five years of typical life span before deorbiting itself to be replaced, and would carry a secondary propulsion system using storable chemical propellants which would be used upon activation of the system for making immediate changes to its orbit in order to intercept and take out an enemy vehicle (ie, ICBM). This would be analogous to an aircraft carrying solid rocket propelled missiles: the aircraft uses much more efficient propulsion but lacks the maneuverability to suddenly rip a 15g prograde acceleration to intercept an enemy aircraft or whatever. The only major difference is that in the brilliant pebble setup, the carrier vehicle is also the kill vehicle, so it's kinda like if a small drone was using a little jet engine to fly around contested airspace, only to ignite an internal SRB to shoot itself forwards and into the guts of an enemy target.

>>14754543
>>14754567
Gentlemen, please, there's no reason to fight.

>>14754567
Is this some nazi joke?

Everybody is laughing now, but when SLS launches and does a perfect mission on August 29th you won't be anymore.

>>14753787
Technically it's because the engine part of a rocket engine is the turbomachinery itself, not the nozzle. In practice though, the thing you're talking about has been done several times by the Soviets, due to their need for very powerful engines running up against combustion instability problems in large nozzles. It's better to have a single big nozzle though, for cooling and TWR purposes.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/08/07/will-boeing-and-northrop-win-82-billion-from-nasa/
Starship isn't getting an 82 billion dollar NASA contract.

>>14753806
It was a shadow of the mass-saving autism that was already creeping into NASA engineering culture.

>>14753873
Keep in mind the SLS has had a head start you can measure either in years or decades depending on how far back you want to look at the Shuttle program.

>>14754004
Did a fucking Indian edit this?

$82 billion is 1600 launches of Starship @ $50 per launch

>>14754549
In realism overhaul / RP-1 I can't use ion drives, they are so fucking slow I'll take a single RCS thruster over them any day.

>>14753873
>>14754588
Should be reverse.

SLS was being created when SpaceX was developing Falcon 1

>>14754597
50m? For price yeah. Cost will probably be under half of that. Closer to 5-10m once full reuse is achieved.

>>14754576
/sfg/ will be in suicide watch that day

>>14754576
If SLS returns man to the moon I'll be happy we are back but still disappointed we are still using a LV so expensive we'll only go a few times before it gets canned again.
>but gateway & bases
Not going to happen with SLS, at $1b per launch it's not politically viable to be making several launches per year for decades.

>>14754597
No need to use Starship numbers, even the F9 does the trick.
It would net 25'600t to LEO

>>14754616
Even at $1b per launch the US should be able to fucking figure out how to launch at least double digits every year. Your military costs $700b alone

>>14754578
>In the meantime, it sure does look like Boeing and Northrop Grumman have put themselves in a good position to capture $82 billion of taxpayer dollars by teaming up and helping NASA to explore deep space. And even if that doesn't work out, and in the worst case, what if NASA succeeds in getting that cost down to only $20 billion or $30 billion?
>in the worst case, what if NASA succeeds in getting that cost down to only $20 billion or $30 billion?
>in the worst case, what if NASA succeeds

>>14754632
I'm not a clap but leading into an economic depression it's going to be a hard sell politically.

>>14754639
Shifting military budget to exploration? How fucking dumb is the american public

>>14754606
For NASA missions, it will require multiple refuels too so $100M maybe safer. So that's ~800+ fully refueled launch costs

>>14754578
Imagine the outrage everywhere if musk/spacex were receiving 82 billion dollars, but because it's boing and ng nobody cares, suddenly solving earth problems is not that important lmao

>>14754644
Public option has a negligible impact on policy, if the general public support a policy it has a 50/50 chance of being passed, if the 1% support a policy it has a 98% chance of being passed.
I imagine the rest of the west is pretty similar these days, at least in neoliberal economies.

>>14754578
Americans of /sfg/, why aren't you out protesting in the streets?

>>14754648
I imagine the refueling cost would only be the internal cost of each launch added onto the price. So best case 75m and worst case 100m. But by the time you are doing thousands of starship launches, the internal cost would probably be lowered to 2million and I imagine the price would be down to around 20 million. That is still probably around a decade away.

>Air Force says they are going to use Starlink
>next day a hit piece is published about an OoOoOo Scary Hackerman who "broke into Starlink"

>>14754680
this is why >>14754677
>>14754703
its a nothing burger, they had to change hardware to do the hack.

>>14754707
So basically Russians with Starlink can hack it.

>>14754680
This country is too broken to ever put together an effective protest unless its for looting.

musk is finished

>>14754719
Spoiler: the looting is actually organized by the people in charge.

>>14754677

>>14754730
Hear me out: AIPAC, but for Mars.

>>14754734
Just gotta plant some ancient scrolls from a lost book of bible that says the end times don't come until humans colonize the solar system.

>>14753109
He doesn't really shit on SpaceX, he just has Asian parent tier expectations and wants them to be more conscious, and he also wants to see other newspacers succeed. While he doesn't outright support SpaceX 100% of the time, he's no CSS or Thunderf00t.

>>14753109
>He had decent takes during the HLS competition era
No he didn't, retard, he had an emotional attachment to alpaca and wouldn't stop shilling it despite its obvious flaws. The angry boomer has been shit since the start

>>14754605
it will be proof that oldspace is here to stay for 100 years. they will get more funding, not less. the perfect success of jwst and sls will show cost-plus contracts are the way of the future. we need more not less

>>14754605
Economics will prevail in the end. ULA lost their monopoly with a lesser price differential.

>>14754565
Nope, nuclear electric propulsion just converts the thermal energy of the reactor into electricity which then feeds the ion thrusters. The reactors that have been proposed over the years, most notably in Project Prometheus, actually had a specific power multiple times worse than state-of-practice solar near Earth so they would actually accelerate slower if the rest of the spacecraft was kept the same. You can however trade Isp for thrust but it would still be painfully slow over a short period of time.

Why haven't methane-fueled cars become a thing, even just proposed to replace regular ICE cars?

>>14754637
>and helping NASA to explore deep space
>implying NASA wants to explore deep space beyond yearly JPL graft missions

>>14754829
Without incentives even replacing or upgrading the distribution network from gas stations to distribution trucks is a bitch.
Unless your car can run on petrol too you're even more isolated than electric cars when considering longer trips.

>>14754829
no funding for it, got to have dem programs
>muh "green" hydrogen which is mostly made by cracking methane
>can't just burn the easier-to-tank methane

>>14754829
What are the realistic temperature and pressure requirements? Gasoline and diesel are stable and safe sitting in a relatively thin tank exposed to garage-level temperature swings for weeks.

Could methane fueled aircraft make sense in the future? Doesn't have nearly same density issues as hydrogen and could be more energy efficient than kerosene if we switch to atmospherically captured hydrocarbons for fueling aircraft.

>>14754202
>Can someone deboonk my math?
I think you miscalculated, or perhaps I did.

I wonder if the "raptor successor" that Elon mentioned will be a rotating detonation engine.

>>14754867
Why would it be?

>>14754859
Everything will be electric in the future, charged by nuclear power

>>14754884
Obviously. Why would you ever need anything other than fusion?

>afterburning, project timberwind nuclear thermal, aerospike SSTO.
>Burns the hot hydrogen exhaust with oxygen to increase TWR at liftoff, reducing the necessary reactor power and improving mass fraction

Could it work?

>>14754884
Long haul battery electric aircraft? Sure in a hundred years.

>>14754894
He said the future

>>14754885
We already have fusion power.

>>14754897
(not really)

>>14754829
They are a thing they're just, like gas or diesel ICE, worse than electric and building out more infrastructure for fueling them would require a massive investment few governments are willing to pay whereas nearly everyone has a place to charge their car and fast charge stations are cheap to build.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_vehicle

>>14754884
>>14754885
Delusional. Take meds

>>14754897
>pic
I mean, the earth already has like a million lions and the sun can't destroy them. No way it beats a million times more lions.

>>14754917
Fusion is coming.

>>14754922
In 20 years of course

>>14754922
Breakeven in 2030, bro*
*scientific breakeven which is intentionally conflated with engineering breakeven for funding and despite all this there is zero real evidence that fusion could ever generate electricity economically*

>>14754932
>>14754938
Working reactor this decade. Full power plant by the start of the next.

>>14754938
>there is zero real evidence that fusion could ever generate electricity economically
Okay, retard. It keeps getting better. Eventually it's going to come around.

>>14754943
Neutronic fusion for commercial power is fucking dumb. If you want to use hot salt to spin a turbine, use fission.

>>14754894
beams not batteries

>>14754943
What project are you referring to? Even if engineering breakeven is achieved, tritium doesn't exist as natural resource and blankets will always suffer losses because all of the equipment that will passes through it. There's literally no fuel to sustain commercial fusion.

>>14754932
>>14754938
Breakeven is essentially guaranteed before 2030 and once it's there funding will increase massively.
>there is zero real evidence that fusion could ever generate electricity economically
"You couldn't prove that it worked before you made it work" wow very smart

>>14754893
>SSTO
Always doubt. It's not impossible, it's just close enough to being impossible to make possible be 100% uneconomical.

>nuclear thermal aerospike
I don't think I've ever seen a design that mixed nuclear thermal with an aerospike. Most people who play around with ideas for NTR don't consider them for surface work, so the need doesn't really ever come up.

>oxygen afterburning
This part is 100% viable. There's piles of NTR designs that include the option of dumping oxygen into the exhaust to boost performance. It even helps with the hydrogen storage problem, since you can use a big water tank to hold your propellant and only electrolyze it down into hydrogen and oxygen in smaller quantities when you need thrust.

>solarfags seething because fusion reactors will end their ugly scam
you love to see it!

>>14754997
XBOX HUEG

>>14754987
Solar power comes from the only known type of fusion reactor.

>>14755002
>only known type of fusion reactor
Impressive room temperature IQ, anon.

>>14754976
Extrapolated breakeven was already achieved by JT-60 decades ago. If you're claiming that engineering breakeven will be achieved by 2030, name the project so I can look at it.
>"You couldn't prove that it worked before you made it work"
No, you can't prove that intensely large and complex machinery that will be irradiated once turned on can be produced at low capital cost when it has never been achieved with fission which child's play in comparison with ample fuel.
>>14754987
>Nuclear retards give up on fission and with desperate hopeium they move the goal posts to technology that doesn't have fuel source, yes that includes lithium-6.

“There is no other endeavor or project undertaken by mankind on which energy and money have been spent for close to a hundred years without any tangible results. … The reason must be that there is a lot at stake, or perceived to be.” — Author L.J. Reinders

>>14755014
Not much money.
But yeah, fusion power would be a pretty fucking big deal.

>>14754987
The atmosphere gets in the way, remove it to increase efficiency

>>14755002
its too dilute & gay; like your posting

>>14754829
Liquefied petroleum gas (mix of propane / butane) has much higher energy density and have been used for decades, trying to convince people to build all the infrastructure for a worse gas wouldn't be easy.

>>14754893
You would need a double nozzle which would be some interesting engineering.
>first throat accelerates hydrogen
>second throat accelerates water exhaust
You might even need to have a way to remove the first throat once in orbit so you don't fuck the ISP of the pure hydrogen mode.

>>14755019
we'd be Kardashev-1 in no time & on our way to K-2. solarfag green commies want a low energy civilisation with only the nomenklatura having private cars, flying, eating real food

>>14755019
>give us more money to waste
Those "paths" are arbitrary and ITER alone is over 20 billion.

Anyone else think it’s a bit odd SpaceX did two single engine static fires with B7 then decided to just roll it back?

>>14755062
>huge, bloated, bureaucratic mess spread between as many places as possible with no serious care about whether or not it actually happens just as long as it keeps going
Gee, where have I heard that before.

>>14755019
>chart
Wishful thinking at best, more likely it's an intentional misrepresentation to push the author's agenda. That amount of money is nothing to a state and is within reach of a fair few individual citizens who are actively looking for productive ways to spend their money.

>>14755070
Give us another 20 billion and we'll do it right this time, we swear :^)

>>14754480
Is it harder to accelerate in the direction opposite earths rotation, than with Earth's rotation?

Another way to ask this maybe are planetary gravity slingshots ever done against the grain of a bodies direction of rotation?
I'm trying to get any amount closer to comprehending and fathoming if massive body rotation effects the gravity field at all in a rotational way.

Is it cope if I admit SLS will fly before Starship, and that it doesn’t matter which flies first?

>>14755081
I would certainly hope SLS launches first; it's been in some stage of theory or design since the 70s.

>>14755069
They originally had them all on but then that explosion happened so now they are slowly building up to prevent a repetition. I think it's more to appease the FAA then any actual ongoing issue.

>>14755081
It doesn't matter if SLS flies first, it matters if Starship flies first.

Its a matter of survival thing for SLS, where as its a prestige for Starship. SLS wont fly again for another 2 years after the first one. Starship will have flown 20-50+ during the same time period.