/lit/ - Literature

>>23331133
Bump
t. not OP

>>23331727
I'm OP and won't bump it
if it dies, it dies... next week will resurrect

>>23331843
Cool. I want to participate but, unfortunately, haven't been able to do so today, and am tied up this evening.

I'm amazed this book isn't more popular

just arrived at page 34, the quote by Sallustius (not to be confused with the historian Sallustius) reminded me that there is a new translation available of this landmark handbook
https://hellenicfaith.com/the-book-of-sallustius-the-philosopher/

>>23334017
Interesting. Thanks for that, anon

QRD?

>>23335471
the book itself is a QRD on the juiciest parts of reality

>>23335623
>the juiciest parts of
Though enjoying the book so far, I cannot concur with this statement.

>>23336660
but the paragraph beginning at the bottom of page 35 implies that the "objective" (Epicurian in this case) is included in the "subjective" (world as moral process)

>>23335471
Each chapter (22) concerns a card of the Major Arcana (Lover, Fool Hanged Man, Death..); meditations ensue.

Awesome, I have periodically shilled this book in the past here, really nice to see anonymous friends discussing it here. I will dust off my copy and try to catch up.
My captcha was 4GPT but I’m trying not to worry about it.

>>23337362
>meditations
So what card do we use to meditate a shomrim into existence so they keep degenerates & criminals at bay and the corrupted & lazy police in check?

>>23331133
What is the min/max strategy of this book? I haven't read it. I am just trying to determine if it is worth my time based on how it increases my stats.

>>23337590
It will increase your WIS. Physical copy is kind of hefty, may also increase your STR. You will not lose any sanity points.

>>23337602
How is the gameplay loop? Is it grindy or do I get a real sense of accomplishment and elation like when I masturbate?
I have only been interested if there is tons of repeatability. Would I get more out of this on a few play throughs, or is it kind of one and done like Bardon, etc?

I can already sense the seething j*ws vociferously pleading that there's nothing to see here.

>>23337645
>Implying that it doesn't take 50 years to finish one chaper of Bardon, excercises and all

>>23333106
Good esoteric stuff isn't popular. Almost everything i see online is either trash/fraud/cash-driven and/or entry-level. MOTT is better (knowing who the author is) but I don't know what the point is beyond what is presumably a poorly-defined/understood spiritual awakening. I guess there are religious Christians who want to delve in to esoteric topics but don't want to abandon Christian dogma, but reading this still necessitates that, at which point you can go read all the other (better) Hermetic, RC authors.

>>23337645
It’s like a table top game with good friends where the DM wrote the adventure from scratch and it’s well done because they know their shit. I’ve gone back and read various chapters and seen new things. Each chapter is more or less free standing so if you miss a week because you are busy rubbing one out it’s okay.

>>23337710
I think the flow is actually the other way. People who are familiar with esoterIc topics but make straw man comments about Christianity may benefit from this book. When Mark talks about handing serpents, there’s an allegorical take which is essentially what this book is about.

>>23337710
>all the other (better) Hermetic, RC authors.
Like whom?

Bumping with some throwaway comments on ch 1. I reread it a little ago and found my notes, rereading again now.
His definition of hermeticism is interesting and very humble. Lots of elements of going into your closet to pray, left hand not knowing what the right is doing, being cheerful when you fast, etc.
Bits about inner silence are kind of funny given that the priestess card is known for her silence.
I’ve had Thrones on my mind lately. The inner silence that creates space and contact with the heavenly ties into those qualities. And the priestess sits on a throne.
The play and effortlessness that can make yokes light reminds me of the epistle of James where there’s a sort of alchemy that transmutes trials into joy.

More Magician. I used to do samatha meditation, which is all about concentration. When your mind is noisy, most of those thoughts start from the World and rattle around your head. When you can quiet it down your will unifies. Tomberg has this nice comment that to be silent preceeds to know. And again, our silent priestess is the card for gnosis.
When you have strong equanimity you are near the end of the path in Buddhism. In Christianity, you are finally reaching a state where you can begin to align your will with God which is starting down the road of perfection.
I have three kids, someone else is going to have to say something more intelligent than me to keep this thread going.

Bump

>>23338020
>Bits about inner silence are kind of funny given that the priestess card is known for her silence.
Indeed but from what I remember the chapters in MOTT have a slight overlap... ai may speculate that the meditation which results in "concentration without effort" from The Magician is more akin to the feeling you get when, for example, you get good at a racing game and at one point you are askin yourself "who is doing the racing, me or the racing daemon?!".... versus the "lake without ripples" kind of meditation from the High Priestess

>>23339151
Yeah, reading the priestess chapter now after reading half the magician chapter and then falling back on my notes before this thread slides into oblivion…
Magician, he uses that tightrope walker metaphor. He talks about descent of consciousness into the chest. There are elements of “flow” or being in the zone to it. And he starts the priestess chapter by emphasizing the active nature of Magician concentration.
You are right to note that in that “flow” state that maybe it’s you doing it… but maybe not.
I’ve had times in my life when my brain should be melting from stress but I just go from thing to thing and just deal with it with a light touch. It feels like you have assurances so the atress/worry aspects are not your problem.
Magician/Priestess dichotomy feels like heating up metal and shaping it (active/fire component), then plunging it into water to anneal it and fix the shape (water/passive side, taking the Spirit and committing it to writing as best as one can). A spiritual experience can happen in a flash, but then you can mine a book’s worth of commentary and interpretation out of it.
Priestess chapter also talks about Gift of Tears, I’ve pointed other anons to it based on having my attention directed to it by that paragraph. If you know you know and everything Tomberg says there is 100% correct. It’s a form of discernment which is very helpful.

>>23340188
>You are right to note that in that “flow” state that maybe it’s you doing it… but maybe not.
if I understood correctly, the soul is split into an active (imagination) and a passive (intellect, but probably includes "nature" or "rest of the world" too, at least to a degree, if I read Tomberg correctly) component... so the "racing daemon" or "flow" may be like a little part of the latter "successfully sculpted" for whatever reason the active part considered it relevant

>>23339151
>overlap
Another spot where you are right, the first six chapters lay down some recurring themes (concentration, gnosis and magic, then obedience, poverty and chastity), but a lot of it is relatively standalone (although Death and Tower chapters go together).

>>23340188
>heating up metal and shaping it (active/fire component), then plunging it into water to anneal it and fix the shape
That reminded me of the "Magician" from the Ferrarese/Venetian so-called Mantegna Tarocchi (pic rel)

It's quite interesting that the author mentions the Stoic Ideal as a factor of depersonalization, wasting away not only personal talent (see page 38) but I may add that: also degrading whatever a character possessing it may come into contact with (environment/neighborhood/city/public office/etc.); three examples to corroborate what I just said:
1. the fall of Rome 200 years after stoicism was catalyzed by Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius; this is plausible because stoicism doesn't pair well with the need to delegate tasks or with subordinated being truthful
2. the fall of Greece 200 years after stoicism was catalyzed by Socrates and Zeno (I am fairly convinced that Plato didn't mean to set up Socrates as the hero it is represented as today)
3. if we observe the paths taken by Stoicism and Skepticism, we can also observe their effects on the soul: apatheia ("without passions," a cornerstone of Christian Orthodox spirituality) versus ataraxia (lucid tranquility, attained by seeking out /gr. zetesis/ the best possible conditions for evolution and making them real)
where did all that stoicism and apatheia lead Christian Orthodoxy? first of all to tolerating anarchism as the de facto spirituality of the masses (Chernyshevsky's 1863 hack job "What is to be Done") and then adopting imiaslavie/hesychasm as the default spirituality of the Orthodox Church (initially condemned, true, yet quickly reconciled... and soon after -- aggressively promoted!)
is it surprising then that most people in Christian Orthodox countries have adopted the behavior and cultural preferences of stereotypical gypsies, while the rest of the population stoically tolerate them (while being out-bred 10:1, not to mention mandatory schooling with diversity quotas)?!

even if you eliminate gypsy behavior from a city, it will again take over without any hindrance & corrupt it in a few years time... so what is to be done? because from what I can put together only a stoic could babysit such a bunch of chickenshits... yet stoicism is the problem that brought us here.

>>23341159
>I am fairly convinced that Plato didn't mean to set up Socrates as the hero it is represented as today
Explain.

>>23341159
Letter on the Hermit kind of gets into this. When you think that the way to win the game is by not playing then you don’t play. Something else that is still vital will fill the vacuum. With skepticism, maybe it makes it hard to play to win.

>>23341696
well... today he is used, especially by high-school teachers wallowing in hysteria, as an example
meanwhile, in my opinion, Plato has used him as a foil, to highlight the foolishness of sophists (what we today call "pre-Socratics") in order to make them get their shit together and improve; it's fairly evident that Socrates, in contrast to the sophists, has no possibility to improve but is a "dead end" hence why he chose suicide

it's enough to look at Plato's later works (Parmenides, Sophist, Statesman, Timaeus, Critias, Laws) to see his glory after overcoming that little twerp

>>23341696
>Explain
Every time I see this /lit/ trope it reminds me of a cable access show I saw in Chicago called “Esplain to the Mexican.”

>>23342707
>When you think that the way to win the game is by not playing then you don’t play. Something else that is still vital will fill the vacuum.
that's an illusion because the person "winning by not playing" still takes up space, eats and shits, and ultimately becomes the slave of gypsies making the lives of those who would like to live in a healthy environment difficult
they should be shipped off to India to be with the people they worship; it would even be a favor as they would be able to polish their stoicism much more efficiently