/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>1912548
They only work for people who think they work, that's part of the magic :^)

>>1912548
As long as you know where the water is, they work fine. If you don't know then the sticks tell you nothing.

How can an object detect water in the presence of atmosphere containing mostly water? Autism detectors desu

Yes they do work. I've located lines with them many times and seen others do the same.

do they locate electrical conduit?

>>1912548
Years ago the old clay sewer line to my house collapsed, house is old enough that no one knew where it was and since it had no basement or crawl space there was no way to easily check, so to save some money the landlord took up shovel and started digging to find it so the plumbers could come and fix it. His ancient father in law came along and took command of the situation, got out his dowsing rods and went to work. They were out there all weekend digging up the yard, they certainly did not work for him. Amazed at how patient and accepting my landlord was of his father in law and his eccentricities, old guy was kind of lost ever since his wife died and just wanted to feel useful.

I think they just make you confident enough to trust your autistic intuition.

>>1912563
How can object (camera) detect light in the presence of atmosåhere containing light? Retard

>>1912548
About to have a large bore drilled
based off magic sticks :)

>>1912563
>atmosphere containing mostly water
Earth's atmosphere is mostly nitrogen, and almost all the rest is oxygen. Water vapor makes up about 0.25% overall, though it can be a few percent in very hot, humid areas. For comparison, liquid water is about half a million times as concentrated as water in average air.

My dad was completely convinced he would be able to find the well of our property using them. We never found the well.

don't ever browse wikipedia they're all lies
hide in your house and hiss at the neighbors
get real scared

yep it works what ever you call it.. witching.. dousing.. high alloy welding rods worked best for me, knock off the coating and shine up with other steel. found many steel pipes, pvc sewers & water lines & elec conduits. reliable to about 8' down soil composition can play with results, ol' plumber here

If they worked there would be a device to do the same long ago. If it works by human "sensing", you'd need no rods.

Most blind tests throw this in trash. There are so many claims and variants it makes no sense - some say use shiny metal, some say very old metal, some do it with Y shaped stick. Some say you find electricity and iron pipes this way, others claim it only works for natural waters, like underground springs or reservoirs. Others claim ability to tell apar good and bad "fields" (or upward and downward going waters). Its complete snake oil nonsense.

>>1912548
Geologist here -

What the fuck kind of mechanism or processes would cause a stick to point at water. No it doesn't fucking work. You're no better than African tribesman believing chanting will bring rain

it works

-plumber

>>1912562
>>1912706
>>1912745

>"I don't know how it works"
>"therefore it must not work"
idiots

>>1912754
>there's no reason why it would work and zero evidence that it works
>therefore it must not work
ftfy

>>1912548
they sort of work for finding buried electrical primaries, as long as you dont mind walking hunched over and use metal ones. Can feel them twist in your hands on their own when you get close.

>>1912754
James Randi did a good piece on dowsing rods, had a long standing "prove the supernatural exists, will give you 1million dollars prize"
Every time dowsing rods came up, it was always statistically identical to random chance.

>>1912754
>idiots
Yet you don't provide any knowledge yourself. Before you put others down at least try to pretend you are competent yourself.

>how it works
That's the trick. It doesn't. There are millions of scientists drooling to discover new effects, technologies or knowledge, yet not a single one has prove this to work.

Go back to your schizos in /x/.

>>1912754
you are a retard

>>1912587
Yes. I’ve seen it done several times on jobsites. I thought it was boomer tales at first but after digging in the spot mr boomer “witched”, the conduit/water line/gas line was pretty much right where they marked it with the sticks.

>>1912548
all i know is my grandoa, and his brother and a bunch of old timers would hire local indians to find where to put a well in their properties so it must fucking work somehow.

>>1912858
Test case would be to dig a well in random spot and see if the success rate was different than digging where some random drunk told you.

Water table is predictable and roughly parallels terrain in most areas so all you need to do is have a rough understanding of local conditions and observe plants to reasonably locate a good spot for a well. Then you just claim some special magic knowledge and put on a show for gullible people and take their money.

>Witching sticks

What the fuck is this new-age bullshit.
They've been "Dowsing Rods" for hundreds of years, not fucking "Witching" sticks.

Dowsing is what they do, they are rods which are capable of dowsing. They don't "Witch" things.

Jesus Christ give me strength.

>>1912754
It doesnt work.

At the very best, you found a conduit because you could see both ends of it and made a good guess where it should be.

These faggots are so stupid they'll spend three days digging up spots that thought it was, and finally find it on the fourth day and say 'see I told you I could find it'

>>1912874

Really? We call them Wizard Dowels.

>>1912874
Bullshit by any other name would smell as foul

>>1912745
When it comes to Earth’s future, those African tribesmen are winning and white scientists are losing, badly.

>>1912548

Take a wild guess, OP...

>>1912898
Dowsing was invented by Germans.

So you can technically sell a branch as "German engineering"

>>1912698
Too bad the James Randi Educational Foundation is no longer offering the million dollar prize to prove this and other bullshit because you could be a millionaire.

>>1912889
>Not using a sorcerer cane

>>1912548
guy i know says he can do it

>>1912548
I prefer the bones method
I get 15 chicken bones and throw them into the air. Then I read what the bones are telling me

>>19129
>>1912562
Have YOU tried it?

>>1912755
Wrong on both counts. How tf do you become the expert on reasons for something working to say there are none. You should have stated no reasoms that I know or understand.

Secondly; there are plenty of people who state they witnessed it working unless you are calling them mistaken or liars.

>>1912893
Exce you have not tried it yourself have you?

>>1913052
That which is proposed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

>unless you are calling them mistaken or liars
Where do you think we are?

>>1912706
I am failing to see sauce.

>>1912755
Physicists cannot even fully explain gravity

>>1912889
Divining Rods here

>>1913062
>That which is proposed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

No. A proposal is just that. Many ideas or schemes are first proposed then tested.

>>unless you are calling them mistaken or liars
>Where do you think we are?

Better wording: unless one is calling them mistaken ...

Hope that helps.

>>1913067
There's more than enough evidence for gravity I would say.

But hey, we don't know the exact mechanics behind gravity therefore divining rods, ghosts, astrology, and you having ever touched a girl must all be true.

>>1913052
Do you believe in ghosts?

>>1913052
I am calling them mistaken or liars

>>1912582
I will bet you $25K that you can't find 5 pipes that I bury in the dirt over a 5 acre property

>>1913092
>>1912881
Dynatel anon here, where u at. I gotta high frequency broadcast mode that doesn't even need to be connected to a tracing wire if it's a conductive pipe

>>1913088
Yes. By way of personal experiences.

>>1913090
Fair comment.

>>1913102
Do you need to use an external rf generator? If so, does it need electrical contact with the pipe?

>>1912835
they already know where the pipe is and do that just to fuck with the new guys.

>>1913120
Yes. In the pic of >>1912881
Theres the black gate, the yellow stick detector, and the yellow lunchbox. The lunchbox is the generator.

Mine comes with 577 hz, 8khz, 33khz, and 200khz. There is a clip to connect directly to a tracer or wire, or a clip to induct around a specific cable, or if you set the box down without anything plugged in, it has an antenna built in to blast the 200khz onto anything in the area.

577 is for finding a single pair or for one cable at long range. 8khz is good for pathing one cable you can connect directly to and have a good ground resistance on. 33khz is good for the inductive loop, 200khz is for the inductive loop or the broadcast mode.

So it doesnt need contact. But it works better.

It will also detect and program EMS tags which are RFID coils you can bury and they always resonate.

I am a hardcore adherent to logic and science BUT these fucking divining rods / witching sticks / whatever actually fucking work. I live in Kelowna and I’ve seen them find water pipes first time perfectly and effortlessly when nobody else could. I can’t bring myself to believe in magic or shit but you feel the damn thing move in your hand. The police used one here to find the body of Mindy Tran randomly in the woods back in the 90s. Look it up on Wikipedia. It pisses me off actually because if these things work by magic then ((what)) did I waste my goddamn money on in university?

>>1913144
I worked on a water and sewer pipeline crew years ago I watched the pipe layer "locate" old pipes using welding rods. There's nothing magical about it. To begin with, the crews use prints of where the pipes should be. They dig a little at a time, the pipe layer does his horseshit locating, he probes around in the earth with a rod then they just keep repeating until they get to the pipe. And Mindy Tran? There's plenty of evidence to support that she was murdered by an RCMP officer. All horseshit.

>>1913144
>but you feel the damn thing move in your hand.
Have you ever played with a Ouija board? It's the same thing.

>The police used one here to find the body of Mindy Tran randomly in the woods back in the 90s.
The police also hires psychics from time to time and sometimes they get lucky.
It's confirmation bias. You focus on the time the random/educated guess turns out to be right and ignore the hundreds of times it fails.

This is a big reason why anecdotal evidence like this is completely useless and you need proper scientific experiments that are designed to reduce these kinds of cognitive biases that everyone has.

>>1913132
No this was on a jobsite we barely started work on and no locates were called/done out there yet.

>>1913397
Theres a reason you have to call locates and not rely on some idiot with sticks in his hands. One works reliably, the other doesnt work any better than if he just looked at the area and made an educated guess.

Last time I saw someone dig without locates it cost them a million dollarydoos in repairs

>>1913397

I've seen locators do the same shit and thought to my self wtf are you doing doing, you know where it is.

The guy was even doing copper wire tracing earlier too.

>>>/x/

>>1912548
you know why the rain dances work? its because the shamans dont stop dancing until it rains

>>1912768
>James Randi
hack

>>1912881
i used it. it worked.

ive seen other use it. it worked

your a n idiot who prob believe humans couldnt travel on trains because if they moved faster than 25mph you would instantly die.

idiot. go back to you world is flat the earth is the center of the universe dark ages

I wish I could report a post for retardation

>>1913597
The one retard dowser that approached the challenge wanted to bury the water sources himself. Randi isn't a hack, he's anti-bullshit.

Only works if you activated your almonds

Im an electrician and an older guy i worked with precisely located a high voltage ductbank underground with two pieces of copper wire in his hands...but that's a little different and dealing with more serious magnetic fields.

>>1912589
>old guy was kind of lost ever since his wife died and just wanted to feel useful.
;_;
At least his son in law realized this and let him do his thing.

>>1913597
Your critique on his magic and comedy routines doesnt address the fact that he had $1mil in prize money, in a bank account for the taking, and nobody could come close to showing the supernatural. That includes the dowsing rod.

>>1912835
Boomers have special powers and abilities. They do.
Boomers understand The Force.

>>1913144
- The rods require a receptive opetator for the function.
This needs to be emphasised. Please note.

>>1913688
Son in law therefore unearthed something far more precious than the old clay sewer line they were searching for. Pardon my sugary-sweet made for tv language; however it is true.

>>1913700
Randi wants to prove the negative.

>>1913676
>Only works if you activated your almonds
*amygdala

>>1912548
Serious question: if the rods used were like the ones in OP's pic, and the force causing them to align was magnetism, is there a way to measure that force? Better question would be could it be done cheaply? I'm wondering about gauss meters, or if a simple magnetic compass held beneath the wires would be adequate.

>>1913134
Thank you for a very detailed answer to my question. It is better than I could have hoped for. I learned several things from your reply concerning coupling methods and frequencies versus aplications. Detecting reading and programming tags is a new one to me. Sounds very useful.

I belive I heard that some pipe /cable detectors models have a party trick whereby they can lock onto RF emissions the pipe re-radiates from ordinary terrestrial broadcast stations. The pipe or cable acts as an antenna which simultaneously picks up RF along part of its lengh which is overground then re-emits. Or being a conductor pipe acts as a local reflector.

>>1912706
They are anecdotally a very effective means of locating, then transferring, the cash of the gullible.

>>1913776
If they were aligning with magnetism then they would always align to the Earth's magnetic field (either north or south). You're right that a simple compass would be enough to verify it.

Gauss meters measure the strength of a given magnetic field, not necessarily the direction of the magnetic flux lines. You can use a compass or a magnetic field detection paper they make to determine the direction.

>>1913763
Yeah, and only one person had to come up with some witching rods that worked and he would have paid out.


Everyone that came out said he was unfair. Or cheating by not letting them bury the water themselves or by burying the tests too long ago or just putting out so much neg as tive energy they couldnt receive properly.

>>1913780
Oh yeah, that's another passive option.

Cabletv apparently always has a carrier that the locator stick can lock onto.

Theres also so much 60 or 50hz in the air from local power that that also almost always works for passive locating. You can tell which one is power because it will be magnitudes hire than other pipes in the area. Then you can find other peaks in the area and verify they have a lower trace current going through them.

I locate to find cable faults and buried equipment so I need as much accuracy as possible. I use the active frequencies from the tone lunch box. I think that passive stuff might have a place in locating hazards for construction where they just need to know to stay away.

The EMS marker tags are pretty cool. You can even program info into them like 'engineering plant Id 13463d, cable 3 5 and 6'

Theres also ground fault locate mode where it can find any number of little holes in the cable sheath. Like down to an inch of accuracy.

>>1913400
We do it all the time because we’re not gay and we have sex with women. All kidding aside though, we only dig without locates when we know there’s no fiber or gas lines around. We’re not operators but we can dig without breaking shit.

>>1913931
The million dollar repair was hitting to 3600 pair copper cables, not fiber or coax.

You're dumb and will get your ass fucked one day and have to declare bankruptcy

>>1913944
Nah. Seethe harder

>>1912548
What the fuck do you think retard

>>1913599
Go claim your million dollars then retard.

>>1913599
Funny how we can put people on the moon, send probes to pluto, have giant networks of sattelites imprivng our everyday lives using advanced physics. We can manipulate the fucking weather.
Yet nobody can figure out the physics of holding 2 bent metal rods and wandering around aimlessly like a dumb inbred redneck.

Funny how that works huh?

>>1914261
?

You're the one paying me double time because you cant manage your digs well enough to comply with the law. Hopefully you luck out and don't kill anyone.

>>1912927
>he doesnt have enchanter poles

all the retards here who claim "they work" or "you can feel em move" are just victims of ideomotor

las varillas de radiestecia lo usaban los indios para encontrar agua, pero realmente no creo que funcione

>>1916273
huehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehue

>>1912548
Yes they do. Pendulums are easier to use though. Start by cutting a shuffled deck of cards into 2 piles and look for the 8 of spades using a binary search. I was taught that they are the wrong way to get the right answer though.
The right way is to keep your eyes on the Lord and He will establish your steps. It looks the same but I don't make conscious choices shopping anymore.
Templar.

>>1914271
this guy gets it

If you hang a fish by its tail the head will very slightly point toward water because of the natural water magnets present in every fishes head.

>>1913067
Who let you into the Royal Institution? Please leave before I call the met.

>>1913052
You go girl!
If it doesn't work, you doing it wrong.
That's the scientific method!

>>1912754
Hahahah

>>1914267
the challenge is rigged and is the fraud of itself retard. are you dumb?
randi is a fucking hack

>>1912745
true, the witching stick is nothing more than a mental mechanism to trigger latent senses.

it is possible for humans to locate water underground by sheer fortitude.

we have the ability to sense electromagnetic disturbances, but compared to most animals it is pretty weak.

>>1916859
How is it rigged? Too hard to find pipes he buried years ago so theres no queues for where they are?

I've seen them used and working in person.

>>1916352
>It looks the same but I don't make conscious choices shopping anymore.
>Templar.
What does this mean? It is not clear to me what you mean. Thanks.

>>1916684
This is not coherent English.

>>1916989
>pipes he buried
Dowsing doesn't find pipes. That only works where they have been laid to channel natural waters or drain naturally wet areas.

It has been historically used to locate natural water sources or position buildings to avoid or target areas of certain influence. It's very widespread in Russia. Soviet research claims it works by human ability to keep balance. Look how jerky and stiff Boston Dynamics robots are while humans are perfectly fluid when dancing, ice skating or blasting down a mountain. We have very fine sense of gravity, acceleration and direction it's pulling us. Stick or iron rods on the other hand don't. And when you try to keep them in fragile balance you'll adjust yourself a little before you can balance the rods, so they will dip, whenever you walk past areas of different composition.

Some claim it's even weirder than just balance, where it has to do with 80% of human being water and the rods not and feeling earths radiation leaking trough areas of less density (thus suitable for erosion and water ingress or egress).

And that's where the rigging is. He finds someone who claims to find water, then reduces the experiment to something else, that just fits the claim enough for lawyers to deny prize. E.g. he buries water pipes. Void of water. Then asks the contestant to "make a reading" at specific spots. Like the dowser is some kind of metal detector.

>>1917192
It was open to literally anyone with any supernatural abilities. Dowsers could setup the test however they want, all randi would do is to make sure it was blind and falsifiable. Thry would come to an agreement what the dowser thought he could prove and what randi thought was fair, and no one could ever do it.

They would often claim randi was putting out negative disbelieving energy so it didnt work.

Your own explanation is full of bullshit. You can unconsciously detect the gravity of water, but if theres a void you cant detect that change in gravity?

And this thread is specifically full of fools saying you CAN find pipes? Are they wrong, thus only applies to water in large natural buried springs?

Maybe if you just dig deep enough almost anywhere this practice is popular, you can find water.

>>1917192
>We have very fine sense of gravity, acceleration and direction it's pulling us

Gonna point out the obvious:

Gravity is such a weak force that you don't notice the difference between standing in an endless plain and standing at the foot of a mountain weighing TRILLIONS of kilograms. It's difficult to even measure at all. In what world are humans suddenly so good at detecting this force that they can use it to detect variations in density resulting in a difference in local gravity 5+ order of magnitude weaker than that?

>Look how jerky and stiff Boston Dynamics robots are

Though oversimplifying a bit, this is due to the disconnect between the model of the world that they do their motion planning on and the real world they're trying to move around in. It has nothing to do with how well they can detect gravity. Dirt-cheap MEMS gyroscopes, manufactured by the billions, can do it very well, as is evidenced by the fact that multicopters work at all. Humans move smoothly because they're better at moving around in general, not because they have a better sense of which direction "down" is.

>>1917197
>detect the gravity of water
I did not claim that. I said one reacts to much greater differences in material density that go well below top water carrying layers. And dowsers around here seem to distinguish between two types of "springs" whatever that may mean. Some call them hot and cold zones, some call up and down going flows or just good and bad junctions.

So probably they can detect both dense water void spots and loose, distant or eroded bedrock, where water might collect or springs break up.

Also if you're building a farm, you're not looking for water in 50*50m suburb patch of grass. You walk across land from horizon to horizon to find place for well that's not gonna dry out in first summer. Any smaller area and there wont be any change in geology to matter. So yes i think those finding anything highly localized are delusional unless they find 50cm pure lead pipes.

>>1912548
>
It works only if you go there a day before and scan for pipes using electronics

They work, they always point to the faggot.

>>1912548
They do work for finding VERY strong magnets.

>>1912548
They do work. I thought it was all bullshit till someone put some in my hands and had me walk over a water source. Instant believer when you watch the wires move all on their own

>>1912745
Fuck off dork

>>1917192
The mental gymnastics here is mind boggling.

Here you go, someone using wooden sticks for dowsing rods
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgWXH3VJpKI

>>1917948
You literally have a weak mind. He told you where to make the stocks dip, and you believed him subconsciously, so they did.

>>1912745
Fuck off idiot, it 100% works for electrical and water IF nothing else is underground. All you are doing is detecting within the magnetic fields. If you don't like that you will really not like this: If you tap your foot a few times the wire will swing back and forth and the number of times it swings is the number of your foot lengths the line or water is deep.

>>1912768
Using them for super natural shit is retarded. Plug in an extension cord into the wall then walk to the line. they will straighten over the line

>>1918095
There is no mechanism in physics that would allow for dowsing rods to work. Whether its for an extension cord, or water, or minerals and precious metals.
By default the mechanism has to be supernatural anon.

>>1918095
Okay m8.

I'll hide an extension cord under a few layer of carpet so you have no visual indication or any other queues I can think of, and you can walk out into the room and tell me where the wire is. I will move it and you can try again. We can do it a couple times.

Do you need to cord to be plugged into a load? The last guy said the standing AC movement wasn't strong enough because it wasnt plugged in on the far end. How many watts?

It's a bad old meme. If you choose to use them do it because of the tradition attached to their use not as an actual tool to find water.

I think it's a combination of factors that lead people to BELIEVE it works; when really it doesn't.
Either people instinctively know where to find water based on other factors, and attribute it to the stick when really they are just acting on instinct; or these people know in advance where the water is and the stick is just to disguise their knowledge to give them more market value, like tarot card readers.
Hiding the light of the procedure aka. the source of knowledge just protect them from people making demands.
"oh, you have a 1950's surveyor map, how could you charge us hundreds of dollars and not just tell us"

Rational people understand that results do not validate a method, regardless of how conclusive they may seem (fallacy of single cause)

>>1913416
Anything that can move an electric will be generating some form of magnetic field. I'd say it might make sense if the rod using to dowse was amenible to magnetism.

But idk why you wouldn't just use an em detector

if they worked, then people would use them in industry, science and everything else, but they aren't used

They're good for detecting gullible people who lack critical thinking - by others.

>>1912563
I believe that one theory is that some people are sensitive to water presence. maybe rheumatisms or whatever that may be
the apparatus merely amplifies some minor tremor or muscular contractions of the hands.
That theory would need some hygrometry changes to be present on the surface.
Other theories would imply that the sourcerer is a walking ground radar / MRI scanner and that's close to /x/ territory... bu then what need for a stick if not a psychological one on the customer. it is more classy and an attribute to the trade for generations.

>>1913144
"My magic sticks told me this is where the dead toddler's body is."
"Dunno. It's magic. xD"

This is the state of the (((police))) in north americistan

If it was a gas markout technician it was probably a magnetomatic pipe locator. It picks up passive magnetic fields.

If youre good enough - you could even locate bell ends on cast-iron pipes.

>>1913144
>I like to use my brain, BUT...
The sticks are just a shtick. Conmen use them because it's easy to subtly manipulate them undetected and for the few who earnestly practice it they rarely are successful and only remember the few times it worked and not the countless times they didn't.
Under careful observation and study they are ineffective.

>>1921353
>If youre good enough - you could even locate bell ends on cast-iron pipes.

They reliably detect people on the far left end of the bell curve...

>>1913144

I never understood the police using psychics. Often they're just idiots like lots of people.

They also use polygraphs, right? Those are inadmissible in court because the results are no different from chance at detecting lies. Police still use them partly because, like I said, idiots. But also because LOTS of people believe in all kinds of crazy things that aren't true: diving rods, polygraphs, e-meters, Joe Biden, psychics, faith healers, etc. So many police use the polygraph not because they believe it but so when interrogating someone who doesn't know better, they can say you failed and that gets you to crack.

Same deal with psychics and dowsing. Say they get information from a confidential informant, but can't reveal the info without revealing the source. Bam, they hire a psychic, let the information slip into their hands by "accident" and then the psychic has a vision. Some psychics really believe they have powers and don't even realize they were conned by the cops.

Odds are that the cops already knew where that little girl was buried and didn't want to reveal the source.

>>1912604
>t. i have no idea what a camera does

>>1912589
>>1912563
>>1912582
>>1912698
wtf is going on in this thread?
Is this some carfefully crafted trolling?

>>1912754
I have more faith in this than I do in a deity. Faith being a belief with no personal reasonings. I've seen it work too. Also saw some materials identified/located by how fast a bead spins on a string.
>>1912745
I'd have respected you more for not posting or discrediting your profession. It's probably just smoke and mirrors but compasses point north and so do shitting dogs. Lots of weird shit we aren't sure of. They'd have burnd your ass for denying the creation in seven days, not long ago. Rock doctor. Kek. You must be some kind of genius.
>>1921514
No troll. No hard data. Maybe smoking crack but I'll defend the believers.

>>1921514
americans ACTUALLY believe in dowsing rods

>>1922285
>It's probably just smoke and mirrors but compasses point north and so do shitting dogs.

>some animals can sense magnetic fields, therefore I can magically find water with a couple of sticks

>>1922352
What we need to do is to train birds to find water.

>water is magnetic
american education, everyone

>>1912548
This is where Steve Jobs got his vision for Apple. These 2 metal sticks were selling for $100 after inflation.

>>1912548
I've tried them. Just fucking around, as a lark, and I'm a total skeptic myself. When I got to where my sewer line is in my yard I about flipped the fuck out when they twisted in toward each other. It was so fun I played with them for a couple of hours. I'm still a skeptic, because I know about the experiments and the prizes like Randi's, but I'm here to say that the whole "tiny subconscious hands movements causing the movement in the wires" is as much bullshit as the dousing. I actually tried to make them move like they did when I approached my sewer line. I never reproduced that movement no matter what I tried, but somehow my brain is enough "smarter than me" that it can cause movements "without thinking" that I can't cause when I try to? So basically it's a matter of science knows that it doesn't work, but it also doesn't know the mechanism that makes it feel so real. That would be the real coup, telling us the real answer to that.

>>1922410
>it also doesn't know the mechanism that makes it feel so real.
it's self delusion

blind tests almost never work and the people who swear by it usually have stories of confirming knowledge they already had, rather than finding new sources of water/metal/whatever

even yours
>When I got to where my sewer line is in my yard I about flipped the fuck out when they twisted in toward each other.
> I actually tried to make them move like they did when I approached my sewer line. I never reproduced that movement no matter what I tried,

it's probably the same reaction that makes people gesture towards objects they're thinking about and your hands twitched

>>1921474
>They also use polygraphs, right?
not in civilized countries. polygraphs have some basis in science at least, but they measure things that are not exclusively related to lying and are circumstantial at best. they're also really easy to defeat by the same methods you'd develop to just have a good poker face. a polygraph test saying you're guilty of something is literally just them saying "he was sweaty and his heart rate went up when we asked him questions!" it doesnt actually prove anything

psychics was an 80s thing because police are just actually retarded fudds 99% of the time. notice that they were usually employed against serial killers and other high profile cold cases that happened mostly in the boonies -- in the boonies where the cops are likely uneducated hicks and are working cases where they are absolutely desperate for leads. they didn't trot them out to solve muggings in NYC, they used them to try to find the Zodiac Killer

>Say they get information from a confidential informant, but can't reveal the info without revealing the source. Bam, they hire a psychic, let the information slip into their hands by "accident" and then the psychic has a vision.
this would be completely inadmissable in court. you're a idiot

>>1922434
>Say they get information from a confidential informant, but can't reveal the info without revealing the source. Bam, they hire a psychic, let the information slip into their hands by "accident" and then the psychic has a vision.
this would be completely inadmissable in court. you're a idiot

Not him but that sounds like a great way to be a crooked cop.

>>1922490
>a great way to be a crooked cop.
you would get no convictions because it's not admissible in court. the pro gamer move for a crooked cop is to take the confidential informant's statements, then arrest the informant for being involved once the first case is over

>>1922497
If a normal person stumbles across a body or murder weapon randomly they report it to cops.

If a psychic does so, why would that be inadmissible?

>>1922512
"visions" aren't the same as being an actual eyewitness or having some kind of other evidence like a recording or signed letter of intent or something. their testimony might be accepted but they aren't a material witness

and if they claimed to be and some hick judge let them take the stand, they'd absolutely fall apart under cross-examination anyway because psychics are bunk

>>1922410
>basically it's a matter of science knows that it doesn't work
WRONG.
Our science "doesn't" know how everything works. That is a fact and should be the starting point of the conversation.

"i cant explain it with my current scientific models"
does not equal
"it doesn't work"

>>1922431
load of manure. kys pedantic fucktard science doesn't know or explain everything

>>1914377
We haven’t hit anything when we locate with “muh evil boomer witchin sticks”. Quit spouting off the LARP going on in your schizophrenic head.

>>1922529
>>1922533
>>1922535
They don't work in blind tests. Period. You have gotten lucky and used common sense in where you're digging.

I get paid lots of overtime every year when someone digs without locates in my city, and i have to assume the companies lawyers come and fuck him later because we take down his name and address and phone number and license.

Hope you dont kill anyone by knicking high voltage

It doesn't work at all, that said I worked in irrigation before and when you see somebody else pull out this technique on the job-site, you say nothing and get comfy for the next 2 - 3 hours doing fuck-all.

>>1912548
even the magic theory says it should't work for unnatural water deposits under ground

>>1922538
>>1922538
nice projecting retard
nobody said anything about using dowsing instead of calling 811 locate

>>1912548
You would be better off taking a 5 month course in hydrology or soil science than spending that money for some guy with a coat hangar to go "OOooooh they are pointing this way!"
I find it amazing that we live in a society that will do anything and everything to deny God, but still believes in things like Dowsing rods and Horoscopes.

>>1922786

>>1922535

And
>>1913931
Both said they would.

You dont know shit. I've seen 100pair copper and 96 fiber running through literally the middle of nowhere. Fields with no access anywhere around them for 1/4 mile in each direction, cut your own path through the chaparral to get there. Bam. It's an earthquake monitoring station buried under 3 inches of dirt.


You're the fucking dumbshit that puts 15 fence posts through a cable because hes trying to claim some more property line but is too stupid to look at his deed to see the utility easement line.

I've also called in locates for digs in the middle of nowhere and gotten serious calls from the had company if we really have to dig there. Sigh, that's a high pressure line. They mot only want to locate it, but need a rep onsite the whole time we dig because of the danger. No sign of the gas main anywhere, but it's there.

There are people talking about no locates here, and they are dumb

>>1922792
*serious calls from the gas company

>>1922352
>The USGS (rockfag) website admits that water witches have an impressive success rate.
>The scientific explanation: "They are probably just lucky."
Basically says that expensive extensive testing and research is is required to do what some old guy with a stick will do better for fifty bucks.
What's wrong with magic if it works?

It's not about the water, it's about finding a pipe or "void" in the ground. My Boomer boss showed me and a few other apprentices this truck and we all thought it was a meme, I still think so, but somehow I have found a few pipes this way.

>>1922870
That’s interesting. Can you give any more information about the process?

>>1912548
you people are fucking idiots. there's no magic to it, it's just some electromagnetism or some shit, with water flowing through a pipe. it's not mystical. My old man came over and helped me locate the leech bed on a farm I just bought and to find the irrigation drain pipes on a couple fields. just walked across with the stupid little sticks and dropped flags. we dug them all up and replaced them, and he didn't miss once.
I don't know why everyone gets their dicks so hard over how this isn't real. if it's stupid, and it works, it isn't stupid.

>>1912548

Its real you retards. Its physics. They use iron rods to find water or specifically current. Flowing water under the ground can create an electric flow. Electric flows create a magnetic field which the iron rods are picked up on since they are ferromagnetic.

>>1922349
Can you blame them?
Most of the country is indoctrinated from a young age to devote their lives to fairy tales.

>>1922905
Really?
Because half of the people use copper or just straight up sticks off the ground.
also see >>1913776 >>1913811

>>1922490

I am him. This is a way for police to release information to the victims or the media without compromising a confidential informant.

The guy you're responding to isn't an idiot. Just a fuck who doesn't read carefully and goes off half cocked.

>>1920312
>sourcerer
lol

>>1912548
In Mexico there are underground rivers with that to make grounds I do not know how it works but it does it since ancient times It is very strange and it is a trade and these guys literally never fail where they dig there is water that easy

I never could do it, but my grandpa used to do it for everyone around that wanted a well dug.

>>1922955
He used a limb from a peach tree that was y shaped tho.

>>1922887
Well said. I made a weak attempt to argue this itt. Just because science has no explanation, does not mean that it isn't reality. Science has a long history of this folly and now they're busy measuring dumb shit all the time.
>>1922952
Based brujos.

>>1922915
people are fucking dumb, basically. it only works the one way. using sticks off the ground is pants on head fucktarded.
water moving through pipes generates friction, generates static, which generates current. I have absolutely no idea what the fuck other people might be talking about, and you sure as fuck can't find bodies like what the other dude suggested. I guess a lot of people don't know the difference between dowsing rods and the insanity of divining rods or whatever.

>>1912910
this is the funniest part of it all

>>1922958
>Just because science has no explanation, does not mean that it isn't reality.

This can be true for a lot of things.
Problem here is, every single double blind study has shown that its identical to random chance.
Placebo effect is very real anon.

>>1922961
>I guess a lot of people don't know the difference between dowsing rods and the insanity of divining rods or whatever.

Because there isnt any difference. Its all the same snake oil horse shit that doesnt work.

You talking about finding water pipes from current is half baked.
In some rare instances with a very high sensitivity and expensive Dynatel machines, you can find water pipes with their minute current.
In most cases you cant and you have to send a tracing signal through to find it.

The current is so small and minuscule, and it only happens in certain rare conditions, it physically cannot move a dowsing rod in your hand.
Only a fucking retarded hick who has no common sense of critical thinking skills (nor experience with actual pipe or wire tracing) believes it.
>*but my grand pappy did it on his farm in 1905 so it must be real*

>>1913763
no shit

>>1922970
>>*but my grand pappy did it on his farm in 1905 so it must be real*
nope. my dad just did it last week, on my new farm. 21 irrigation pipes and a leech bed. if that's just dumb fucking luck, I'm sending him to buy every lottery ticket in existence.

>>1922973
Random questionable anecdotes dont change basic physics anon.
Go walk over top of those irrigation pipes with a compass and see for your self how much it affects the earths magnetic fields.
If it can physically move dowsing rods in your hands, it should very easily make your much MUCH more sensitive compass just go crazy.

Spoiler alert, its not going to do shit.

>>1918085
12 minutes of this shit? did it work or not

>>1922979
Yes it "worked"
They hit water where his *wooden* stick pointed.
Do note that he handed sticks to impartial people who also tried it out, and surprisingly enough the sticks did NOT work for them. Only the fat retard who is getting paid to find water with his twig.

Youll find that in other videos too.
I saw one where the guy was like "Im in a family of 7 and it only works for me, I have the gift and they dont!"

>>1922976
here's the crux of this bullshit argument against dowsing, though:
you've stated it's pseudoscience. got it. I'm telling you it works. you say it doesn't. I'm telling you've I've seen it work, repeatedly, and you say it doesn't work.
so instead of just telling me it doesn't work, do you have an alternative? because if the answer is
>lol idunno just dig around randomly man, it's just as accurate as your bullshit dowsing
then you're not going to convince anyone. I may be a fucking retarded hick, but I stick to what consistently works. I don't much care how, as long as it works.

>>1922976
I don't think it moves the rods/stick. It is a feeling that the operator is cooperating with. You are thinking of ouija boards. The physics is that different materials are detectable and measurable. You propose something just as preposterous, that people cannot determine differences in things. Just as many can't explain why it works, you cannot explain why it doesn't. The evidence is that these people get lucky most of the time and you're not explaining the unlikely probability of that happening.

>>1922984
>you say it doesn't work.
>so instead of just telling me it doesn't work, do you have an alternative?

I gave you an easy. scientific and imperial test that you yourself can go outside and try yourself.
You regurgitated the "current causes magnetism that will move your iron rod" line, so go out with a compass and test your belief.
Most people just say its supernatural, which obviously is horse shit. At least with you and the magnetism bit, its easy to go and verify yourself. You have faith in your belief right, so no reason not to test it, prove it to yourself that you are right and people like me are wrong.

Physics says your mechanism for dowsing rods does not work.
Impartial double blind studies have shown they do not work.
Anecdotes mean absolutely nothing.

Something as simple and basic as magnetism is very well known and understood in science and physics. You do understand the vastness of our knowledge in magnetism right? its literal rocket science which we use to propel things into space, how the planets move, where they will be, and the orbits they will travel.

Yet you think 100 years ago some dude with a coat hangar figured out something that to this day is unexplained by our current understanding of science?

>>1922986
>I don't think it moves the rods/stick
Thats literally what every single fucking video lauding this is. Magnetism is the easy copout because if you lacked any sort of critical thinking, you would say "oh that makes sense" as opposed to the guys with aluminum rods saying its supernatural.

>Just as many can't explain why it works, you cannot explain why it doesn't

The burden of proof is on the person claiming the extraordinary.
Every single double blind study has shown it to be horse shit.
It IS ouija board placebo. When digging for a well in the midwest, there are enough veins if you dig down far enough you will most likely hit water. This dumb luck is literally why it seems to work to retards with WOODEN sticks.

Remember guys, you have to talk to and have a personal relationship with your non ferrous aluminum dowsing rods for them to work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbwo0YCpV3E

>>1922984
no, the crux is you dumb hicks don't get that you just need to do a little research to find the pipes. That's all the dowser is doing. They find out a head of time where they are, then "find" them with stick and 'wow' you faggots. Fools and their money are soon parted.

>>1922988
>compass
that's not a more accurate alternative. I don't know how it works, I just know that it does. I'll try the compass thing just to satisfy my own curiosity, but the bottom line is that if there is no better way to locate water when no maps/data is available, dowsing is an option better than just digging and hoping for good things.
>>1922995
that's not at all the case. no one charges for it, and I've never seen it be a first hand option, which tells me you're just pulling shit out of your ass because you're a cunt and you can.
if there's no information available, and you need to make a decision, it's better than just digging randomly and hoping for a good outcome. anytime I know someone who has used it, it's family or friends helping out, or as a last resort on a job site.

>>1923000
>that's not a more accurate alternative
Its testing the mechanism of iron rods being moved by magnetism caused by current. If it can move a rod, it can move a compass.
When you realize what you THOUGHT made it work doesnt actually work, you need to sit and think real hard.
Dowsing is literally just peoples intuition, they use their prior knowledge of the land and where they think water might be.

They dont start dowsing far away where they think the water will NOT be, they go and start where it SHOULD be.

Then they do their horse and pony show with their sticks, hit a large vein of water and have convinced themselves something otherworldly happened.
Its placebo and why people get shit on for believing in it.
Its also why iron, aluminum, copper, twigs etc etc all "work" and everybody does it completely different.

>>1923000
M8, you can't even prove it works. You are just SAYING it works. Don't start accusing other people of pulling shit out their ass when you are covered in it.

>>1923000
>>1923002
Have you guys ever played with a gauss meter? These things are sensitive as fuck. Even water in flowing through nonferrous pathways has some magnetism from minerals or some shit. Iron pipe magnetizes from electrons lining in the direction of flow. The needle moves if you put it next to certain humans. Pretty cool. Idk about divining but magnetism probably has something to do with it.

>>1912548
i do this with my dad's allen keys when i was a kid

>>1922970
>Placebo effect
Not the same thing, dummy.

Humans can sense their electromagnetic environment with the aid of their L-fields interacting with the L-fields of wood rods or electromagnetic fields of metal rods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Saxton_Burr#Academic_career

Where is my Nobel prize in Physics and Biology?

>>1913760
I'm not crying, anon, I just got something in my eye.

>>1922362
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_absorption_by_water

Fucking Americans, lmao.

>>1923673
Corollory: Dowsing does not work in highly electromagnetically polluted environments. And such environments are bad for ones constitution.

>>1924026
Which is maybe why it didn't work in this case
>>1912589

>>1922988
>video
Well there you go. Thats how all you fags get your experience. TV is fake. I don't know how to do it but fucked around with people who claim to. You use your sense. Anyone could do it if the rods just moved on their own.
>>1923874
What? Because they (not me) are providing more objective evidence than. Consistently lucky is equal to random probability?

>>1924030
Yes, please, by all means, double down. Don't try to repair your reputation, that's for losers.

>>1924030
>Thats how all you fags get your experience
Using resources available to me, in the information age where you can see vast amounts of history and talk to people from all over the world with a click of the mouse?
Oh Im sorry, Terry and his coat hangars defying the laws of physics and doing the supernatural is so much more compelling.

Does Terry have a rainstick that he jumps around with too when the crops need rain?

>>1924026
It would've taken you 5 seconds to look up how that word is spelled. It makes you look like you're too lazy to do the slightest bit of research on anything, which might have something to do with you believing in dowsing.

>>1923000
>americans dont know how the compass works
holy shit lmao

>>1922942
Its also used with unreliable informants and as a result of the aforementioned avoidances of due process, more often through "anonymous" tiplines and various clandestine state and federal channels these days.

>>1924858

Yep. Also true, but while I agree, this isn't the board or thread to argue against parallel construction.

>>1924541
But at least I'm not petty.

>>1923000
Don't forget to lube your shovel with real snake oil before you start digging.

>>1924888
Snake oil isn't real tho

>>1912548
>>1912556
>>1912562
>>1912563
>>1912604
>>1912606
>>1912745
>>1912706
>>1912755
>>1912881
Dowsing has been and will continue to be used by professional company's to help locate buried objects, 10 out 12 company's in the UK use them, if they have 0 effectiveness then they would not be used, there are many possible scientific explanations for their effectiveness outside of supernatural means that we assign things

>>1923045
where can i get one like pic related

>>1923000
Checked digits confirm Based and Deviner pilled
I wonder how much the material changes the outcome, iron vs wood rods like the Germans used to use

>>1912587
This is actually more plausible than finding water because of the magnetic field generated by the current. Magnetosensitive rods would interfere with the magnetic field just like neodymium implants.

>>1912858
but were the Indians using dowsing rods or identifying water table levels via soil identification or other means?

the main reason 4chan is successful is that threads are bumped based on reply count and discussion which encourages argument and discussion which leads to people learning to think critically which leads to a wiser userbase. This is why 4chan boards tend to be more clued up and savvy than their reddit counterparts as reddit focuses on whats popular and groupthink which leads to stagnation as ideas aren't challenged and given a chance to evolve.

>>1913750
Boomer buried the line in 1988

To those of you arguing that metal sticks detect the changes in gravity from various materials underneath you. Youre fucking retarded for thinking that those materials can compare to the pull of the absolutely thicc iron molten core of the earth. Youre retards.

it works the same way as a pendulum (block the hand of its user and it will stop, it's all about incontrollable micro-movements of your wrist aka the ideomotor phenomenon), you're making it move unintentionally.

My uncle was a "sourcier" french contraction of source and sorcier (sorcerer). He couldn't find water in concrete floors but could almost always find water in natural terrains, it's all about careful observation and study of the ground, the stick is just here for show (he used metal coat-hangers to make them).

If you can manage to move your dowsing rod by yourself, try that on a friend : Tell him you have the "power" and that you can lend it to him.
Use a Y-shaped twig and demo it to him, then tell him to give it a try.

The twig won't move, but tell him you're gonna transfer your power with your hands, so put them on top of his and squeeze a little.

You will feel the stick moving. Remove your hands and it will stop. Magic! You now have a dumbfounded friend.

Try it yourself with a pendulum. Just take one and empty your mind. When it's stationnary, ask "him" to move in clockwise. Be amazed. Now, observe your hand carefully while doing that. You'll see the trick.

TLDR : Our brain is amazing and an asshole.

(and sorry for the crappy english).

>>1912548
Two aluminium wires, usually untied from an old transmission line.
1 span into your hand, 2 span out.
Your picture shows the wrong way of holding wires, that's why you all think it doesn't work, because you create to much friction for a wire to spin free. Let a wire rest on your bent pointing finger and lower part of your palm, your fist doesn't have to be closed. All you need is skin contact and friction free wires. Hold both close to each other, like 1 span apart
Why ppl find gas pipes under ground? because usually a copper wire is laid on top of it for devices to find.
I haven't red all the thread, but 200 indicated serious misunderstanding.
Second misunderstanding: "I tried, it doesn't work.", it doesn;t work for me too, buddy, even radio goes shhh when I come close. I work with my uncle, dude is just like a fucking electromagnetic radar. We often get called to redo couplings (sleeves, or how it's called in English). Turn up in ladies garden, lady doesn't know shit where anything is underground. Never missed a cable. Error margin - max 1 meter. Yes, sometimes you can guess where to look, but when some drunken soviet electrician made a curve to the house and uncle says it's a curve, because two wires showed him, and I dig old cable out and my trench is actually a curve almost around the house, you better believe two wires work. He has harder time with water inlets and sewage pipes.
Fucking electromagnetism, ayy m8! I believe this thread is filled with office workers, denying anything.
t. electrician

>>1925452
That loner kid has some fresh kicks.

>>1925412
copypaste but it does make me think, 4chan has developed its own groupthink that is difficult to go against

>>1925437
take a magnetic piece of metal and put it next to your compass, then reflect on your worldview

>>1925452
i wonder if the phenomime is purely electro magnetic, it would the scientific explanation to it, our ancestors beloved it represented the lay lines in the earth

>>1924538
>information age
That time has passed.

>>1925392
>there are many possible scientific explanations for their effectiveness outside of supernatural means that we assign things

Give them to me, scientists dont agree with you.

>>1925525
Oh its still the information age, we have an overload of information. Much of it completely fucking wrong.
Take 3rd worlders like >>1925452 for instance.

>>1912548
My wife's grandfather is a well-witcher and he's old school famous in eastern Colorado for his ability. Kind of sad though ... he tried to teach his son and apparently he didn't have the talent.

>>1912750
I had a teacher for a plumbing class do it and had non-believing students do it and they were surprised it worked. I didn't try it, but it might be something that actually works.

>>1922533
But anon, science is never wrong!
>Science cannot explain why this magic potion cures headaches
>Therefore it is a foolish potion for credulous imbeciles who are not intellectual scientists like I am
>Only a retard would use a magic potion to treat a headache
>Hey, this magic potion contains acetylsalicylic acid, the active ingredient in aspirin
>I guess it does work after all, as proven by my rational intellect
>Another win for science!
So as you can see, science is never, ever wrong.

>>1927393
In this case, everytime the potion is tested it does no better than a sugar pill in blind trials, the creator presents no falsifiable tests, and the ingredients of the potion is aqua and sucrose

>>1926447
And real world dowsing results have consistently disagreed with science for hundreds of years. Dowsing works, seethe harder.

Trust me, I was skeptical as fuck and by no means do I believe there is supernatural explanations for it, but my girlfriends uncle lives way out in the san bernardino mountains and told me thats how the found the spot for his well. He even showed me how to do it with a metal coathanger. Make an 'L' shape, hold the small leg of the L VERY LOOSELY in your fist and just walk around. The fucking hanger wouldn't move for shit but as soon as you walk over one of his water lines the fucking thing moved towards it.

Ghosts, supernatural, spirits all that is bullshit. So I'm telling you to test this shit for yourself. Get that metal coathanger, make that L shape, loosely hold the short leg of the L in a loose fist so it can easily spin and watch that shit happen yourself. I'm asking you to see it and test it for yourself.

>>1927484
Good point! Reliance on dowsers must be why the san bernardino area has such a great water supply.

>>1927393

Look, assume for a second that dowsing works. The real question is, does dowsing work? The answer is yes, so who cares how it works or why it works or whether it works.

Checkmate!

>>1924902
have you ever squeezed a snake?

>>1913890
How many pipes do they have to find? If enough people try it, someone could get lucky enough to find 3 or 4.

>>1927850
2/3 pipes. The prize isnt actually available anymore since randi retired.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge
Actually specifically shows a dowsing example. They got 3 expert dowsers in Italy and setup a test were all 100% confident they could pass, and not one of them got better than 4' near a pipe.

>>1912754
Explain to me how it works, obviously you possess this knowledge as you believe it works.

>>1912548
Watched a locator find a plastic gas service line using witching. Trace wire was shit and they got sick of pot holing bad signals, dude finally just witches it, pot holed it, there it was

>>1924541
You're a fucking fag. You know that, right?

>>1912582
we used them to find buried, clogged drainage pipe in the field (yes we do that in europoor land) with pinpoint success.
No one knows exactly where the lines run because this was done 80 years ago.
i really dont want to believe in this shit but the results speak for themself

>>1927959
Too bad you guys all missed your chance with Randi

We used them to find ghosts.
They really work.
I really didn't want to believe it but we found one ghost after another.
Too bad none of us had a camera with us though...

>>1925392
lobotomy is used in curing delusions, 9/10 witchdoctors agree so it clearly works
you should get one

>>1912548
yes

>>1912924
Why would I settle for a measly 1 mil and get dissected by the military when I've been winning small lotteries with my powers for years to fly under the radar.

>>1912971
The bones... tell me nothing.

can't vouch for usefulness, but I have seen city workers use them to find water pipes under concrete.

From what I saw, the paint marks were pretty accurate to the actual position of the pipe when they later dug.

>>1927477
>And real world dowsing results have consistently disagreed with science for hundreds of years.

They literally failed every double blind study anon.
We get it, anecdotal evidence is what you care about, which is why you wont walk under a ladder and you throw salt over your shoulder

Your brain is fully capable of deciphering the information at hand and figuring exactly where what you are looking for is. But you can not consciously use that ability. Dowsing rods allow you to use subconscious and involuntary cues to access what you know, which is almost everything since your body is matter and nothing happens without leaving evidence, so every atom contains enough information to figure out what a stranger ate for breakfast.

>>1914377
Government worker detected. You have no power we the people will do what we want and your job is meaningless.

>>1928136
GB 2 pol please, antifa. You are too dumb to be playing around here. I am clearly larping as a power company employee, not a government worker (i cant even... do you think I was an inspector or lawyer?) I literally have all the power.

>>1912548
i mean, i have done that while potholing for utilities and it seems to work ironically but i dont know if correlation is not causation.