/diy/ - Do It Yourself

This is my first time trying any kind of home brew using juice from apples from the family apple tree. This guy has been going for two weeks (picture from day 1). According to my SG readings from some of the juice used to make it and today, it's only about 2% ABV (1.013 initially and 0.998 today). Tasting it, it seems like it should be higher than that. Is it likely that I just fucked up some how taking the readings - seems unlikely - or could I have only gotten 2% ABV from fresh apple juice? Or is it possible that it needs longer to ferment?

what kind of brew do you get from those barely sweet red apples

>>2485779
>https://pricklycider.com/2020/11/07/hard-cider-tip-28-malolactic-fermentation/
How does mead get affected by malolactic fermentation? I thought it did not contain malic acid.

>>2485833
Honey doesn't contain malic or tartaric acids like apple and grape juice does, so lactic acid bacteria won't do anything in a mead. You can of course add malic acid to your mead and then afterwards add lactic acid bacteria but I have no clue what that does to a mead.

>>2485862
Thanks, I was confused by the MLF primer saying "any fruit / mead".
Related to MLF, has anyone done secondary fermentation in barrel versus in a glass car boy? I am tempted to do this but don't know how I would be able to apply a fining agent such as isinglass if so. Would applying isinglass to the primary fermenter right before I racked to the barrel affect anything negatively?

This feels like a dumb question but how do I make a starter? Do i just make like a quart of wort from DME and then add in my entire packet of yeast and wait a day?

>>2485922
An entire packet as a starter is a waste and exactly the opposite of what a starter is supposed to be.
A starter is a tool you use when you don't have enough yeast or you want to stretch the amount of yeast you have over many batches. So instead of a whole packet, you just use a quarter of a package, add it to a small flask with warm water, sugar and nutrients and let the yeast multiply in there for 24 hours. Best practice is to use a heated stirring plate.
Most yeasts on the market just need to be sprinkled directly into the wort/must or at least be hydrated in a cup of water before pitching, but the instructions on the packet will tell you everything you need to know.

>>2485866
My bad sorry it was supposed to say wine/fruit mead

>>2486127
Yeah, that makes sense then, if you're doing a Ciser (Apple juice mead) or a Pyment (Grape juice mead) you definitely have malic and tartaric acids in your mead which the lactic acid bacteria can convert.

Made 6 and a half litre of 96 percent today took advantage of the nice weather

>>2486160
Nice, what did you use for mash? What do you plan to do with it next?

Pic is my still minus boiler. Never have enough time to get it finished...

>>2486163
Very nice column there
You ever do much distilling

I use sugar 8kg buckets for getting my stock up and filling buckets and use the pot still for corn mashes and molasses mashes

Hey, how much pressure can you exert with a screw type apple press?

I was doing some rough calculations on mine and wasn't sure if my calculations are right.
4mm per rotation
600mm pull bar I assumed a grip point of 500mm

But from that I'm getting almost an 800x magnification which assuming I can exert about 25-50% of my bodyweight as force gives me an effective pressing strength of 20-40t or 200-400kN?

With a 400mm barrel diameter that's ~1/8m.
So I must be getting in the region of 3MPa pressure on the fruit?

Don't people only usually use 5t bottle jacks for this?

>>2486124
Yeah i have 1 packet of yeast but I'm making a high gravity beer, so I'm in the exact situation of "don't have enough yeast"

>>2486174
Thinking a little more 400kn at the screwtip is around 1GPa, I think the bearing material would probably fail first, not sure what they're made from or what loads they can handle, looks like bronze.

>>2486299
Yeah, in that situation a starter is beneficial

Getting a bit bored with fruit wines. Does anyone have a good ‘exotic’ recipe with sugar/honey and stuff like coffee, nuts or herbs?

>>2486174
What’s the size/pitch of the screw thread? 40kg (400N) at 500mm is 200Nm, for an M20 normal pitched screw thats about 50kN.

>>2486424
This is the press.
https://vigopresses.co.uk/36-litre-cross-beam-press/
I'll measure the screw dimensions tomorrow if you want them, the screw is bigger than an m20, maybe m30? I'd have to measure it to know for sure, I did measure it travelling ~4mm for every rotation or 200mm for fifty turns.

>>2486446
If standard metric it would be either m36x4 or m39x4. At 200Nm that’s 25-35 kN depending on lubrication. The magnification factor you calculated isn’t quite right because most of the force (80% ish) goes into friction between the threads.

>>2486471
So 80% of my shoving goes to fight friction? Which would mean that it's a 160x instead of 800x multiplier?
I did think my calculations must be missing something, that would be a much closer comparison to a 5t car jack.
I do try to keep it pretty well greased.

I don't know shit about homebrewing and I want to do as little reading as possible
an apple farm near me sells some awesome cider that's free of preservatives and unpasteurized. I want to try turning it into hard cider. can I just put this shit in a glass jug with some brewers yeast and put an airlock on it and wait?

>>2486653
>I want to turn cider into cider
What does this mean?

>>2486685
Americans call raw apple juice cider and fermented alcoholic apple juice hard cider

>>2486653
Yes but make sure everything is sanitised. It may not end up great but it works

>>2486692
Why do they do that

Kilju was a success so I’m making new batch. Any comments on my updated recipe/method? Is it better to add the herbs initially, during or after primary? I’m a bit afraid some may carry bacteria since they’re biological.

- Start 2L water, brown sugar to 17Bx
- When down to 10Bx add 300mL + 200g sugar
- Doing this 4 times for 1140g/L total
- Let rest when done, rack to secondary
- Add 40g coffee, 20g of anise, cinnamon, cloves and some orange peels.
- Wait 5 days, freeze distill, then bottle pasteurize

If I just take a bucket of apples, mash them all up and leave them to sit can I make rudimentary cider or would I need to do more than this?

>>2486785
Flies or molds will eat them and they will rot under oxygen. You need and airlock of sorts. With wild yeasts the taste can be very surprising (also very bad)

>>2486707
that's actually an interesting story.
During Prohibition companies started marketing unfiltered apple juice as "Cider" since actual cider was illegal, and the name just kind of stuck. After prohibition cider never really got popular again, except for a short time in the 2010s, but then got killed off by hard seltzer

>>2486805
>>2486707
For calcification, i should add that cider had been waning in popularity for years before the temperance movement started in the US. Mostly due to the large influx of Germans and other central and southern Europeans and so Lager stated to displace Cider as the fermented drink of choice. Similarly Apple Brandy lost popularity due to the rise in popularity of Whiskey and Rum.
Also during the temperance movement and prohibition people were literally going around the country cutting and burning down apple orchards that were growing cider apples, to the point where many of the cultivars made specifically for cider have been lost.

>>2486809
>calcification
FUCK, i meant clarification

>>2486805
> After prohibition cider never really got popular again, except for a short time in the 2010s
Not in the US, but it’s still drunk as a traditional product in more traditional pubs and restaurants in the UK and in parts of France (Normandy, Bretagne). In France it is often carbonated, in Britain traditional cider isn’t. Apple brandy (calvados) is pretty popular Portugal, but among younger people has been surpassed by cheap cognacs

>>2486865
Yeah the guy was asking about why American call unfiltered apple juice "Cider" and call cider "hard cider". I figured it was pretty obvious that the talk of cider not being popular was exclusive to the US, and that i didn't need to clarify its still quite popular in Europe and the UK.

>>2486872
Oh you didn’t need to calcify it, I just randomly add some information sometimes

Racking the Muscadine pyment to secondary in a cured barrel. Added a few oak chips as well since I like oakiness. I plan on letting it continue secondary and MLF in here. Current gravity 1.022 (down from. 1.130).
Any use for the pomace besides mulch? Is it usable as a source of tannins for other batches? Most of the color is leached out but not all. Distillation is not an option in my area and I hate grappa anyway.

>>2486809
>Also during the temperance movement and prohibition people were literally going around the country cutting and burning down apple orchards that were growing cider apples, to the point where many of the cultivars made specifically for cider have been lost.
Wow. sounds a little insane.

>>2486768
>Doing this 4 times for 1140g/L total
Did you have a typo here? Do you mean 1140g for the entire amount of brew? How many liters are that?
Should be around 3,800ml right? (1140g sugar * 0.6 = 684ml sugar + 4x300ml water + 2000ml water = 3,884ml total)
That's 293g sugar per liter which is optimal and should turn out to around 15% ABV.

As for your "botanicals", you can add them at the start of fermentation no problem, I'm doing the same for Metheglyns. Only in fruit additions it makes a difference, some people don't like the taste of fermented fruit, so in case of strawberries and raspberries for example it's better to add them after the fermentation phase, when you're racking for the first time. It will create less of the fermented flavor and the fruit actually tastes fresh and crisp.

>>2486785
No, that's not an option. When making Apple Brandy (Apfelkorn) you basically put crushed apples in a fermenting barrel (around 200 liters) and let them ferment. Then you're distilling the pulp, like you're doing with Sliwowitz.

For cider you definitely have to press them and ferment the juice only.

Like with every hobby, you need to make a little investment when starting, or trying it out, so you should at least get a water container (HD-PE from camping supplies for example), a rubber bung and an airlock. That amounts to about 20 bucks and is cheaper than any other hobby (I payed more for starting acrylic painting and knitting) so don't cheap out. Remember that you want to drink the result of your brewing and the quality of your brew always has something to do with the equipment you're using.
If you're from the US you can even buy apple juice in 1 gallon glass demijohns, so you don't have to buy the HD-PE container and you get a gallon of apple juice for free.

>>2486952
Yup typo. 1140g total sugar in 3200mL water, minus samples. A bit over 15%. Dissolved sugar does not add volume and my calculator factors it in, I’m getting around 17%. Still not sure when I’ll add the herbs, but I guess it’s easiest to control in secondary. Whole herbs are on sale right now so I guess I’ll just buy them now and read up on it.

>>2486959
Would that be fresh pulped apple or the pomace?
What sort of thing can be made from the pomace short of compost or animal feed?

>>2486977
>Dissolved sugar does not add volume
That's not correct. Sugar adds ~60% of it's dry volume when solved in water, that's why I multiplied your 1140g with 0.6.

I even tested it for myself, when I made an experiment with the alcotec 48 yeast and the maximum amount of sugar for 20% AVB to measure how much the fermentation start is slowed down.

Added 7kg of sugar to 15 liters of water and it just came out a little bit above the 19 liter mark.


>>2486982
For the Apfelkorn it's whole apples in a barrel, stirred up with an industrial drill. You don't need to completely pulp them, it's enough to damage the skin on all apples, the yeasts will take care of the rest. But that's a process for distilling, for making cider you really just want the juice.

Opinions on tumblr peepwine?

>>2487154
A brilliant anon here said "EC1118 could ferment a brick if it had enough sugar." That's what I'd use for peep wine. I would add Fermaid-O.

>>2487169
>Fermaid-O
why not fermaid k?

>>2487154
Anything with preservatives won’t ferment. Can’t tell you how many wines I’ve had fail because the ingredients label was inaccurate.
Peeps have a small amount of potassium sorbate. You can usually overcome it with a yeast starter. People have done it before with walmart ciders.

Anyway it looks fucking disgusting.

>>2487202
Never tried but from what I’ve read a tiny amount of potassium sorbate can be overcome. The yeast cake won’t grow but if you add a big healthy yeast starter it may still kick off.

>have a shitload of rhubarb
>cut up like 10 pounds of the shit
>stuff into fermentation bag
>pour like 11 cups of sugar into bucket
>add water and crushed campden, then bag of rhubarb and more water until covered
>wait 24 hrs
>lift up bag and add yeast, leave lid cracked
>ferment.exe
>one week remove bag and rack into carboy
>fill to 5 gallons
>haven't taken a single reading this entire time

Now we wait, is this whole idea fucked?

>>2487458
that's kind of how people fermented back in the day, it's not like neolithic man had a hydrometer. As long as it doesn't smell like rotten eggs or acetone it will probably be good and get better with time, the worst that could happen is you get vinegar. Trust your nose.

>>2487458
>Rhubarb = 11g sugar per 1kg
>10 lbs of Rhubarb = 44g sugar
>11 cups of sugar = 2217g sugar
>Total of 2261g sugar
>5 gallons = 19 liters
>2261g sugar / 19 liters = ~119g sugar/l = probably 6% ABV

Idea is not fucked, don't worry. From my experience rhubarb is just pretty mild in taste in a wine, don't know if rhubarb from other countries is different.
I'd just add more sugar next time or make a rhubarb flavored cider to pump up the ABV a bit.

>>2487458
>>2487475
correction, it was 18 pounds of rhubarb and 10 pounds of sugar

>>2487154
>peepswine more like my little pony pee pee wine

>>2487479
>he knows the secret of rosé
CEASE YOUR INVESTIGATIONS

>>2487458
So you didn’t turn the rhubarb into juice? Just plunked them into a bucket? Weird.

>>2487495
sugar should suck the juice out

>>2487495
Just cut it into ~1in pieces and stuffed into the ferment bag, it didn't get mushy or soft after a week either. Anxious to see how it turns out.

How much ginger should I add to a gallon of wort?

>>2487458
>add water and crushed campden, then bag of rhubarb and more water until covered
Not all of these at the same time I hope? Also fuck readings just calculate initial sugar and let it sit until it tastes good. Hydrometer a shit

>>2487523
4 to 16 tablespoons of grated fresh ginger depending on taste. Like are you going for beer with a hint of ginger or intense ginger beer

>>2487478
>Rhubarb = 11g sugar per 1kg
>18 lbs of Rhubarb = 90g sugar
>10 lbs of sugar = 4536g sugar
>Total of 4626g sugar
>5 gallons = 19 liters
>4536g sugar / 19 liters = ~239g sugar/l = probably 12.2% ABV

Sounds more like it.

>>2487527
Brewing is a lot like cooking and that you can say “fuck it” to your ingredients and still get results.
The entropy of information is not as impressive as its capture though. So many memories and useful data has been lost forever because of carelessness.
Maybe brews are like buddhist mandalas, an expression meant only to last for a moment. On the other hand some yeasts have been passed generation to generation.

>>2487534
I was mostly joking but for real I hardly take measurements. I could, but the surprise effect of feed-forward control is more fun and less tedious. My feedback is mostly “does it taste well” and if not I change the recipe until it does. Taking a lot of measurements feels like micromanaging someone who doesn’t care what you think anyway (yeast)

>>2487529
Noticeably gingery beer. This is going into a golden ale which isn't particularly bold to begin with

>>2487531
Thank you anon

for those asking about cider...

chop some apples up, fill 75% of a jar with them, then mix in 1/4cup of sugar and distilled water. leave in a warmish place for a week with cheesecloth or tshirt over it tight.

you should see lots of white bubbles and it should smell clean. at this point, pitch some (1/4cup) of the liquid/froth into some raw cider (unpasteurized) in a gallon carboy with airlock.

wait 2 weeks and then bottle it up with some added sugar. let them sit warm for 3 days, then fridge for a day. if they arent carbonated enough let them sit out again and repeat.

now you have some solid cider and also a natural yeast culture you can use to make beer or more cider. backslopping from a container much like sourdough starter works well. ive never had to buy yeast

all of this works better utilizing corny kegs and c02*kegerator. you can ferment (spunding valve), self carbonate, and serve in the same keg, no glass bottling bs.

keg cider is hands down easiest thing to make, and it is high quality.

fill keg with cider, add hops or other fruit in a stainless mesh bag, pitch backslop, seal with spunding at 30psi, 4days-1month later put in kegerator, 1- 2 days later tap it and drink away.

>>2487527
Yeah, all of that in with the campden, all but the yeast.
imalittleretarded.swf

>>2487579
>now you have some solid cider and also a natural yeast culture you can use to make beer or more cider.

I can't tell anyone here what to do and what not to do but be aware that this whole process is based on a wild fermentation with wild yeasts. Most wild yeasts-mixes on and in fruit contain Brettanomyces which produce phenols in uncontrollable amounts that smell and taste like horse-stable and shit.
I wouldn't even use that yeast if I was paid for it.

>leave in a warmish place
Promotes production of methanols, definitely not something you want to drink too much of in one evening and definitely not recommended to freeze distill.

is there such a thing as mildly fermented drink
just ferment for couple days instead of weeks

>>2487860
Of course, you can use low sugar contents, so that it simply ferments dry at lower than 3% ABV or you can just stop the fermentation process by pasteurizing.
You should look into Hard Seltzer, that should be something that you're looking for.

>>2487860
It just takes a day or two for the yeasts to rehydrate/grow and then they go pretty fast especially at low sugar content. If you 1:1 apple juice and water you end up at 2.5% or so within a few days

Brew day tomorrow bros
Gonna make 3 beers from one batch of grain

> 48 hours after pitching
> still no airlock activity

Always makes me nervous. Yeasts look okay but can’t tell for sure. How long can I even store dried yeast in the fridge before it dies

>>2488045
Like a thousand years or something

Two new batches of date wine, one all syrup and one mixed syrup and actual dates. I got the stupid idea to run the dates through my grape crusher. This was an astronomically stupid idea. Do not do this.

>>2488148
what are those sticks doing in there

>>2488213
I'm oaking in primary to test something out wrt pectinase

>>2488045
1. Check bung/lid/screw top for air-tightness. The CO2 might escape somewhere
2. Check bottom for yeast. If the entirety of yeast lies at the bottom, your yeast is dead
3. Check for gravity. At around 32°Bx the osmotic pressure is so high, the yeast will be greatly inhibited or even dead

can booze be made from mushrooms?

>>2488266
fungi don't turn on their own

>>2488266
Mushrooms have a maximum of 20g sugar per kg. So you need at least around 10kg of mushrooms per liter. Good luck with that. Also they are poly-saccarids, I don't even know if yeasts can transform them.

I have tons of apple juice, two fermenters, I want to rerack my first batch into second fermenter, can I pour fresh juice on whatever is left from primary fermentation and just keep going? or should I clean/sanitize everything and start from scratch?

>>2488258
Checked everything, still no idea, pretty sure the CO2 is leaking. It’s a screwed on cap with the airlock in it. I’ve applied ptfe tape to the threads, caulked the hole for the airlock, but still leaky. Decided I should take a sample and found it dropped 5 Bx already so it seems that all is well

>>2488471
Yea but it will keep dead yeasts and fruit pulp etc in there, which will slow build up. You can do yeast washing, it’s pretty easy (not as easy as starting from scratch though)

Its brew day bros. I'm making 2.5 gallon batch of english barleywine.
For grains I've got:
0.6 lb - Crystal Dark - 77L (5%)
0.6 lb - Crystal Malt I 45L (5%)
0.6 lb - Honey Malt 25L (5%)
10.2 lb - Maris Otter 3L (85%)
For Hops:
0.5 oz - Target Pellets, added at 60 minutes.
1 oz - East Kent Goldings Pellets, added at 30 minutes.
I'm using Nottingham ale yeast and I've got a healthy starter ready to go.
I'm aiming for 11.5% ABV.

>>2488639
Sounds like an awesome recipe. What is your mashing time and temp? What will be the O.G. to hit on the 11.5% ABV?

>>2488642
I'm planning a 60 minute mash. I BIAB and my brew kettle is a cheap thing that losses heat easily, so my strike water was 166, after I added my grains it dropped to 155 and it will slowly lose temp over the hour and end up around 145 probably.
If my calculations are correct my pre-boil gravity should be 1.083 and my post boil gravity (OG) should be between 1.114 and 1.117, my FG should be 1.028. So that would be around 11.5% ABV. if my pre-boil gravity is too low i'll simply extend the mash for a little while, heating the water a little if i need to.
Honestly i've only been all-grain brewing for like a year now so I still don't know optimal mash temps. That said as far as I'm concerned in the old days they didn't have shit like thermometers and refractometers and such so as long as everything is close enough and it tastes good in the end, i'm happy.

How long after pitch do I have to aerate the must? I know "about 24 hours" but would a few before or after affect it?

https://files.catbox.moe/1u4oou.jpg
is this look ok? it's on secondary since 12th and been like this since days, not actively bubbling just foamy on top
>inb4 it's clearing
the top layer is not clearer it's darker

>>2488651
There are many opinions about it, my rule is once the yeast has multiplied but before the fermentation (bubbles) really starts. I give it a shake after 10 hours and then again at 20 or so.

>>2488653
Could still be clearing although a few days at same level is a bit long.
Doesn’t look like an infection to me

>>2486174
>how much pressure can you exert with a screw type apple press?
A fucking lot. The ratched type handle has additional gear ratio, a buddy of mine calculated over 50 ton on his.

>>2488653
To me this looks like yeast settling. (The French press effect). The top part is not darker, it's just void of yeast and the part should increase in size daily. You should absolutely avoid disturbing it.

>>2488982
doesn't seem void desu
it appeared on the second day and it has been the same size since 10 days or something

>>2488985
OK, that's unusual, normally it should settle about 2-4cm per day. 10 days is quite long. Did you just rack it, or did you add any chemicals for stabilizing or clearing?

>>2489006
i just filtered it once after primary
didn't add anything

>>2489006
wild yeast batch btw

>>2489008
What was your gravity when racking?
Was it completely dry? Because when all the sugar is gone, the yeasts will settle to the bottom, creating the French press effect. But if you afterwards take out the fruit and press it / filter it, all the (dead) yeast present in the fruit will just be suspended in the brew again and the French press effect won't take effect. You can either wait a little longer or you can reactivate the yeast by adding sugar. That way the yeast will be active again and repeat the French press effect when the sugar is gone again.

>>2489018
why would the dead yeast somehow remain suspended after filtering
how does restarting the fermentation help them settle down
i don't have hydrometer

So I definitely got an air leak and because of the screw on lid design I cannot fix it. I have another vessel that is airtight, but by transferring it I lose the yeast cake. Should I do it anyway and pitch some fresh yeast or just let it be? I don’t think there will be oxidation now as it’s a small leak but it could become a problem later on

>>2489095
>why would the dead yeast somehow remain suspended after filtering
So even though yeast are single called organisms they evolved from multicellular fungi and have some atavistic behaviors. As they go dormant they put out something similar to a mushrooms tendrils, it's not real hyphae but called pseudo hyphae. These interlock with each other and form the net that catches the trub. But when the yeast is fully dead or dormant then the pseudo hyphae break off and you're just dealing with individual ovoid/spheroid yeast without a lot of surface area or added weight, so once it's shaken into suspension it doesn't have what it takes to sink back down. At micro scales air and water is a lot more viscous than it is to us.
All of this is irrelevant f you're filtering at sub 0.5 micron scale however.

>>2489095
With "filtering" I meant filtering the fruit out of the brew by using a cheesecloth or a brewbag. Both aren't anywhere suitable for filtering out yeast and that's a good thing, since when taking out the fruit, you want all the live and active yeast back into your brew. I guess you simply kept the fruit in too long and took them out after fermentation went completely dry.

This anon >>2489123 is completely right in his explanation, by interlocking their pseudo hyphae they create the "french-press" effect, but if the yeast is already dead or dormant and they are shaken back into solution, they're suspended in the entirety of the brew forever.

>how does restarting the fermentation help them settle down
Restarting the fermentation means taking the yeast out of their dormant state, back into their active state. They will continue to convert the sugars and when the sugar is gone, they'll repeat their pseudo hypae process again, which results in getting the french-press effect a second time.

>>2489131
>>2489123
okay but should i rack the already settled yeasts out first before adding sugar?

>>2489099
As long as the opening of the leak is not too big and your brew is still generating CO2, I wouldn't worry too much, especially not about oxidation.
Is your vessel opaque, so you can't clearly see if there's still bubbles coming to the top?

But for the future I would definitely search for an alternative method to seal the top. Can you post a photo of your fermenter?

>>2489133
Could be missing something but shouldn’t you try cold crashing it first since it’s a very easy step that won’t alter your brew at all

>>2489133
Since you need to properly swirl your brew to get the sugars properly dissolved in the entirety of the brew, not just the bottom, I would go the most complicated but most thorough way:

Rack your brew, leave the settled yeast in the old fermenter, add bung and airlock to the new fermenter. Fill the settled yeast from the old fermenter into a jar and wash the yeast to separate the live yeast from the dead yeast. That should take a day.

After you have a jar full of live yeast, add the sugar to the new fermenter, swirl it well and then pitch your new batch of live yeast. That way you have the least amount of dead yeast suspended in your brew while having the maximum amount of live yeast in it.

But in the end it's up to you, I can't tell anyone here what to do and what not to do, I can just present methods with which you can fill up your tool-chest.

>>2489136
It’s the ikea vardagen I got for free. The display model seemed airtight (pushing the lid in and closing would keep it down) but the one I bought isn’t (the stainless on glass threads don’t seal properly). PTFE tape didn’t work. I can take the tap off (main reason why I got it) and put that on a pot like in the OP picture

>>2489139
Definitely not, he will need all the live yeast that he still has and they wouldn't be able to create a large enough french-press effect, else they would already have done it after 10 days.

>>2489145
Did you search online for thin rubber seals with an outer diameter that matches the inner diameter of the lid? That way screwing the lid on tightly will compress the rubber seal against the glass-edge.

>>2489142
>That way you have the least amount of dead yeast suspended in your brew
but didn't you say dead yeast were suspended in the brew
if i rack i also end up with dead yeast
>wash the yeast
is it necessary
isn't it more important the filter out the dead yeast from the suspended state rather than recover live from the settled state

when you add sugar to brew don't you need to sterilize the sugar there could be contaminants in the sugar no?

>>2489220
I'm really sorry, but I explained it twice now, this is the last time I'm explaining it.

How it's supposed to be:
>Live yeast is suspended throughout the whole brew
>Through missing sugar or cold crashing all live yeasts go dormant, thus creating pseudo hyphae, entangling each other and forming a french-press, carrying everything down to the bottom with them which is suspended in the brew

What you did:
>Live yeast is suspend throughout the whole brew
>Through missing sugar all the live yeasts go dormant, thus creating pseudo hyphae, entangling each other and forming a french-press, carrying everything down to the bottom with them which is suspended in the brew
>Take out fruit and re-introducing all the dead and dormant yeasts to the brew
>French-press process is already over, the dead and dormant yeast is now suspended in the brew forever
>You now have lees made out of dead and dormant yeast and a brew with floating dead and dormant yeast suspended in it

What I told you:
>Rack into second fermenter (dead and dormant yeast in suspension)
>Take dead and dormant yeast from lees from old fermenter, wash yeast to at least get rid of the dead yeast
>Add sugar to second fermenter, swirl and add live washed yeast
>That kicks off fermentation again, when the sugar is used up the yeast will recreate the french press process again and take down all dead and dormant yeast from suspension down to the lees

>isn't it more important the filter out the dead yeast from the suspended state rather than recover live from the settled state
I hope you understand now that this is exactly what I was explaining to you the entire time. If you still don't understand, then I guess this hobby simply isn't your jam.

>>2489222
As long as your ABV is over 7% and there is live and healthy yeast in your brew, there is no contaminant in sugar that can overcome your brews "immune system".
Adding sugar/honey to your active brew is far far less dangerous than leaving fruit or dead yeast in your brew for several weeks or letting your brew ferment at too high temperatures.

>>2489232
i'm just having trouble getting the new terminology right away otherwise it's not rocket science

>>2489240
I think the thing to help conceptualize this is that you can only deploy a parachute once. The yeast, when it goes dormant, throws out a bunch of fibers that work like a parachute, an bring a bunch of stuff down with it. Once dormant, the yeast can't deploy another parachute. So if you stir it back up it stays there and can't clean up after itself. Hope this helps

>>2488639
I was too tired to post yesterday, but i ended up mashing for 2 hours, and still didn't hit the pre-boil gravity i wanted, so i added DME until i did.
I know i could have got better results if my grains were ground finer, but unfortunately i don't own a mill so i have to deal with the grind size the company sends me.
I'm still happy with my results, and had fun.

Also i had some unused grains left over that i figured i should use before they stale, as well as a few pounds of DME, so i mixed those with the spent grains and made a partial mash parti-gyle brown ale. I don't have any pics of that tho.

>>2489321
That's awesome, looks really promising. The reason I asked was because I never mashed a Barley Wine myself and bought a Barley Wine Extract just to see what to expect. I just finished today, followed the instructions and unsurprisingly hit the O.G. of 1.068 exactly.

So I hope that we both finish around the same time, so we can post pictures and flavor profiles of our results.

>>2489148
I looked for some simple ones and I can probably buy a ‘weck pot’ one whenever I find the time. But so far the vessel hasn’t really been great anyway so I might just take off the tap and buy something more suitable.

>>2489222
Sugars really like water. Any sugar over 96% (ish) crystal or honey at 94% or so resist microorganism growth because the sugar takes all the water. Single cell organisms are permeable and the sugar just sucks the water out of them and they die (that’s why it has no expiry date if kept dry). Theoretically there could be some drought resistant funghi spores in it but if you buy it from a factory it’s normally clean (pasteurised heated dried and they use sulfides and whatever to separate)

Update on the Muscadine pyment. I racked to secondary in barrel before and this thing continues to bubble, we are currently at 1.013 (down from a high of around 1.131). I added malolactic culture and its quite delicious, smooth and deceptively strong. It is also very effervescent, to the point where the wood is sweating because of all the pressure.
I like the concept of serving it from barrel like a real ale, but can I add isinglass without losing fizz? Is my tradeoff clear vs fizzy or can I have both?

>>2489562
>deceptively strong
No need to hold back there, if your measurements are correct your wine sits at a comfy 16% ABV.

The thing with the fizziness is not that easy, especially not in a barrel.
Your wine is just fizzy AND hazy because fermentation is not over, yet. As soon as fermentation is over, your fizz will be gone and the wine will be completely flat. And only after fermentation is over your wine will start to self-clear.
The only way to get and keep fizz is by adding additional sugar after fermentation is over or using the residual sugar of your wine but not more than 4 gravity points and keeping the wine under pressure. That's a bit complicated in your case, since you're already at 16% ABV and you still have 13 gravity points left, so you might hit alcohol tolerance of your yeast before you're dry.
In a bottle that's easier, just bottle it, add the flip top or crown and let it sit. As in the barrel you need to hermetically close the barrel so that the CO2 can build up the pressure and the only way to get the wine out of the barrel without losing the fizz is by hammering in a faucet at the bottom of the barrel as you know it from beer barrels at October Fest, except your barrel already has a faucet.

My beer is stuck, I may have introduced too much sanitizer when I took a gravity reading. Knew I shouldn’t have poured it back in. Best way to get it going again?

>>2489530
I just googled, it looks like the lid has a diameter of 18cm. Why not just buy a 18cm rubber/silicone gasket? Completely trashing the concept is a bit dramatic if you can simply try how it works with a gasket.

I personally would use the approach that you use when fixing your car, always start with the cheapest solution.

>>2489783
Don't panic just yet, first check if your brew is still bringing bubbles to the top. It might be that you're leaking CO2 somewhere.

Also check what your expected F.G. is and how far away you are from that goal, you might have just reached the natural end of fermentation.

If there are no bubbles and you don't have a leak and you're not yet at the end of fermentation, you don't have any other chance than to create a strong yeast starter and re-pitch:

>Grab a 500ml glass vessel
>Create a yeast starter in 100ml water with a bit of nutrients and sugar
>After 1 day, add 50ml of your brew to the starter
>After another day, add another 75ml of your brew to the starter
>After another day, if your starter is still going strong, add another 100ml of your brew to the starter
>If your starter is still strong the next day, pitch it into your brew

Try to keep the temperature of your starter at the same temperature of your brew, the less temperature difference the yeast has to overcome, the healthier they are.

my apple cider has been open under a paper towel for 2 months but still isnt very vinegary

>>2488471
Yeah, that works a couple of batches but any more and you start to get off flavors. Also means that you should stick with the same style. It also makes it hard to impossible to really recreate a brew you liked exactly.

Where can I get buckets larger than 5 gallons? My batches are all 5 gallon but it'd be much easier for me to work and mix everything in a larger container. I saw some on Amazon but there's no way I am paying $50 for one

>>2489916
Amazon sells 30 liter (8 gallon) fermenting buckets for 12.00€. Most of them even have a faucet in the bottom.

>>2485816
jenkem

>>2489916
Northern Brewer has a great selection, I find their 6.5 gallon bucket leaves the perfect amount of room to work with a 5 gallon batch without being too big.

>>2489957
Link? I looked and didn't see that one, there might be a difference between countries.

>>2489972
Thanks.

>>2489991
This is from the German Amazon, but maybe it brings you in the right direction:

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/lilawelt24-Fermentation-Container-Bucket-Drain/dp/B01HN81FEG

>>2487838
have u ever tried wild fermentation? generally the method described using apples yields clean yeast strains with no off flavors. brett and nasty stuff only appears in unclean environments and excess oxygen. in this case the apples float to the top from yeast activity and create an air barrier. you dont need science and labs to get good wild strains... if it smells bad dont use it and try again. its inevitable you will get a good strain. once you catch one, you keep it airlocked in a c02 only environment.

also fermentation under pressure requires no temp control. ive made great beer at 90 degrees. but yes in a carboy i wouldnt ferment warm..

>>2487860
hey the secret here is kegging. i have let apple cider ferment for a small amount of time just to naturally carbonate it, it tastes like liquid candy!

you can cold crash the yeast by putting it into the kegerator, it will slow down then halt fermentation eventually. it may be a tad hazy but it is still delicious. i have also sucessfully bottled still sweet hazy cider off the tap and as long as it stays cold it wont explode the bottle. no nasty sulphites needed.

>>2490076
>brett and nasty stuff
Not a fan of geuze I see.

>>2490076
No, I pride myself with my processes and the reproducibility of my main recipes.
I'm not anywhere proficient enough to handle proper yeast strain analysis and breeding, so I let people handle it who can do it better than me. And even if you isolate a wild yeast strain that's promising, with home-lab methods you can only use it for 2 or 3 generations until it changes the aroma and flavor and it might even be a genetic dead-end.
I'm reusing my yeasts always once, so I'm getting a store-bought specialty yeast, use it for one brew, harvest it, use it for a second brew and get rid of it.
Anything else will end with unexpected results.
Also, the results with wild yeast on apples may vary from region to region. In the Fränkisch regions of Germany, the Ebbelwoi brewers pride themselves with the amount of horse-stable funk they get in the bottle and that's just not my jam.

what is the role of moisture in fermentation

>>2490145
Moisture outside of the fermentation vessel doesn't really affect the brew, moisture inside the fermentation vessel... well it's brew inside, so of course there is moisture.

Maybe you need to specify a bit more what you mean with "moisture in fermentation".

>>2490164
what if fruits were dry instead of ripe without killing the yeast will they still ferment

>>2490076
I like the idea of doing it the traditional way but it seems Bretts are almost impossible to get rid of once you have them. Also I believe there are good wild strains out there, but apple farms are way different these days and there’s no way to know if they still get the ‘good’ wild yeasts.

>>2490142
> horse-stable funk
Laughed a bit but I know what you mean. Just fyi the usual term is barnyard / farmyard. But you can get it (slightly) from MLF alone

>>2490084
> i have also sucessfully bottled still sweet hazy cider off the tap and as long as it stays cold it wont explode the bottle
You may have but refrigerating does not prevent exploding over time. Many beginning beer makers have had their bottles explode inside the fridge at least once. Bottle pasteurisation is the best and cleanest way if you ask me.

>>2490166
Yes but you need to add water back. Yeast will not do anything but die if there’s too little water to keep them hydrated

>>2489916
Most homebrew shops do large format fermenters 10 gallons and above if they're a good store, especially those that supply local breweries.

>>2490166
When making wine/cider, you're not only mashing fruit, you're always filling up your fermenter with water.
Using fruit without water is something that distillers do with apples, plums and apricots.

>>2488266
No. Dumb fucking question.

>>2488268
Then explain mold on cheese genius.

>>2490528
> you're not only mashing fruit, you're always filling up your fermenter with water.
I don’t really see what you mean here, if you separate the fruit juice from the pulp (by pressing/straining mashed fruits) or you have very juicy fruits (like grapes) you don’t really need to add water do you? I take care to add the absolute minimal amount of water to get 5% abv from apples without chaptalisation

Anyone here do malolactic wine fermentation?

>>2490617
I am doing it now in barrel on a muscadine pyment. I used a malolactic culture, I didn't know if the barrel had any naturally. It is pretty fast - but I am working with a 5g/20l barrel's worth.

>>2490532
Cheese is made by bacteria, not by yeast, except those types of cheese that are refined by noble molds. And even if the cheese contains noble mold, other fungi don't attack the noble mold, they attack the cheese structure that is made up of the clotted milk-parts. That's why cheeses that are completely encased in noble mold are able to be stored for years.

As a side-note, you don't look that smart if you call someone genius ironically while dropping a really stupid claim yourself.

>>2490565
>if you separate the fruit juice from the pulp (by pressing/straining mashed fruits) or you have very juicy fruits (like grapes)

Anons question here >>2490166 was about really dry fruit. Of course you don't add water to apple juice or grape juice, but what about those fruit that don't contain enough water themselves?
Blueberries, Blackberries, Bananas? You can't turn them into wine without adding water. (e.g. 12kg of blackberries, 5kg of sugar and topped up with water to reach 20 liters)
You wouldn't be able to drink a blackberry wine made from 100% blackberry juice, using more than 12kg for 20 liters alone makes the the taste too intense, really stingy and sharp.

>>2490665
>im going to respond to comments that were never made to look smart
>Cheese is made by bacteria, not by yeast

Literallt nobody said this kek

Please explain to us how cheese is made. Nobody but you knows how it is done. None of us have the internet you dumb faggot

>>2490672
actually my question was about fruit preservation fruits are cut and dried to preserve them
do yeasts die just from drying the fruit or from the uv rays of sun

>>2490673
Oh wow look, it's the "I just pretended to be retarded" guy again.

>>2490684
OK, I'm losing the plot here.

Combining your question here with your initial question here >>2490166 are you really asking if you can ferment dried fruit?
What is the purpose behind this? Just ferment the fresh fruit instead of wasting energy and/or time drying them only to try to ferment them afterwards.

Or maybe it would help if your question isn't split up in 5 one-liners with one of them being dropped every other day.

>>2490687
my question is about fermentation as it happens on it;s own

>>2490691
This anon here >>2490183 already answered that.
Yeast can't survive if there is not enough moisture, so no, dried fruit can't get infected by yeast.

>>2490683
They become dormant but they're pretty hardy, so they usually don't die. This is why you can ferment raisins and such if you rehydrate them
If treated with sulphites they die.

>>2490642
How does it affect the taste?

My booch has been on the first ferment since September 9th. Is this stuff gonna be disgusting when I bottle it or just extra spicy?

>>2490753
For cider it reduces the ‘sharp sourness’ like the taste of green apples into the more smooth, soft fruitiness that sweet red apples have. From golden delicious more to Braeburn. If you’re not using cider apples (which are much more tart to begin with) the effect is pretty subtle

> 5 brix down in 24 hours
Isn’t that a bit fast for champagne yeast?

whaaa boiiii hwg hwg hwg hwg now 1

ok so two weeks ago let me see if I remember what I did

I think I:

>took 8 gallons of apple juice
>apprtionned three cups from each? some like that
>combined in big ass pc
>added, hm, 4 bags of sugar, 12 oz molasses and spices (cloves nutmeg cinnamon cayenee idk)
>returned three cups back to each jug
>startered with white wine yeast
>balloon
>specific gravity .070

three weeks later

>specific gravity 0.0000000000000000
>9%abv

wat do now. it isn't sweet. do I have to kill off the yeast or can I just rack it? and if I want it to actually taste good? what about backsweetening? does that make the bottle explode?

tldr /wdg/ wat do gen

How much should I worry about sanitation? I want to brew in a 1.5L plastic bottle. Should I bleach the bottle or is a simple wash fine?

>>2490935
dam so you know I was here three weeks ago. I was talking about this. I really think I could be aiming for much higher specific gravities than .070. someone said that too high and you're looking at an osmotic environment in which yeast cannot survive. what kind of sg would that be?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B0Uy4KWziE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOBQslIY8ng

>>2490970
wow anon I watched that entire second video and it was awesome.

>>2490936
For vessels that small you can just fill them with boiling water. Just be careful not to spill and let it cool before adding yeasts.

>>2490938
It’s not about survival, the yeasts get stressed and produce by products at higher gravities. SG 1.07 is usually considered the limit for not stressing your yeasts.

>>2490935
To be honest, I don't even understand half of what you did there but I try to answer your questions nonetheless.

>wat do now. it isn't sweet. do I have to kill off the yeast or can I just rack it?
You're at 1.000 SG, that means there is no sugar left, so of course it isn't sweet. Rack it? How should we know, what kind of beverage did you want to make?

>and if I want it to actually taste good?
Improve on your processes. "Some like that" and just adding stuff to your fermenter doesn't automatically yield a good result. Also, what is a "good taste" in your opinion?

>what about backsweetening? does that make the bottle explode?
Adding sugar will restart the fermentation process again. Do it in a fermenter and only the ABV will increase while the sugar is gone again, leaving you with no sweetness. Do it in a bottle and the cider will get carbonated and all the sugar is gone agian, no sweetness left. Want a sweet AND carbonated cider? Add more than 6g sugar per liter and pasteurize when the bottle is at 0.7 Bar @20°C.
Fuck up this process and you're on your way to the ER.

>>2490938
>dam so you know I was here three weeks ago. I was talking about this. I really think I could be aiming for much higher specific gravities than .070. someone said that too high and you're looking at an osmotic environment in which yeast cannot survive. what kind of sg would that be?
Let's check your ingredients:

>8 gal. Apple juice = 4,560g sugar
>4 bags of sugar (I assume 1kg) = 4,000g sugar
>12 oz. of molasses = 315g sugar
>= 8,875g sugar in 33 liters = 269g sugar / liter = 1.103 SG
So either where you're coming from "1 bag of sugar" is only 230g, or your apples only have 25% the sugar content of the most average apples, or you fucked up your gravity reading...

Get your processes in order before trying to improve, because you can't improve if you don't have anything to improve upon.
Start writing down what you're doing, dates and measurements, even start a brew diary.

>>2490936
If it's a PET bottle, just don't, get a glass bottle instead or something made of HD-PE.
Also don't use bleach, that's an instant yeast-killer. You can use alcohol based kitchen disinfectant or simply add boiling water to your fermenter for 10 minutes.
If you click with this hobby and want to get more sophisticated, take a look at the Five Star product range, Star San is basically the go-to disinfectant for home brewers and professional brewers alike.

>>2491156
> If it's a PET bottle, just don't, get a glass bottle
Does anyone have a scientific source why this would be bad for you? Many people say it’s bad but every homebrew store sells PET fermenters and most articles can’t find a single difference in final product.

>>2491160
pet plastics are meant for single use

>>2491160
PET contains Acetaldehyde. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde#Dangers)) While governments and health organizations say that Acetaldehyde that goes from the bottle into solution is below the hazardous threshold, the amount is still high enough to taste and smell it and it's carcinogenic nonetheless.
Furthermore, in my opinion an even more important factor is, we're dealing with alcohol here, especially prolonged contact with alcohol over the period of the fermentation. Alcohol is a strong solvent, so you can expect the amount of Acetaldehyde in your brew to be higher than what governments and health organizations measure in your everyday mineral-water.
Moreover, the sturdy PET bottles which aren't crushed when recycled are refilled about 50 times in the EU and the more a bottle is reused, the rougher the surface of the inner walls get. This roughness gives bacteria places to hide when cleaning the bottle before brewing.

>>2491184
I’m not saying PET is or isn’t okay I’m just trying to make sense of all the true/false information out there. For example

> acetaldehyde
Production of acetaldehyde by yeasts is orders of magnitude higher than the amount that leeches from PET bottles. It’s only formed from PET (it’s not present) when it breaks down through UV or melting. If you taste it in a brew it’s from the yeasts, not the container. Plus another source of acetaldehyde is metabolisation of alcohol in the body.

Though
> the rougher the surface of the inner walls get. This roughness gives bacteria places to hide when cleaning the bottle before brewing
This is a fair reason not to use bottles I guess.

>>2491204
>Production of acetaldehyde by yeasts is orders of magnitude higher than the amount that leeches from PET bottles

Concentration of Acetaldehyde is greatest while in main fermentation but is mostly converted/destroyed in the end phase. Even while the beer/wine is in storage, the Acetaldehyde is destroyed over time. The longer you store the alcohol, the less the Acetaldehyde concentration.

In my opinion, regarding the PET bottle, this is not about getting rid of the harmful substance, it's about reducing it the best you can. And if I can avoid adding further Acetaldehyde to my brew, I'll do it.

>>2491184
So my dad using lemonade bottles for his sloe gin is a bad idea?

>>2491233
I dunno. Smirnoff wodka comes in pet bottles so I guess it meets safety rules if the bottles are new

>buy cider from liquor store thinking it'll taste like some delicious nectar of the gods from the professionals
>tastes the same as my brews which is dismiss as being too bittery and sulphurous and i'm a newbie fuck
>the colour is good but carbonation is kinda weak
hahaha but i guess the joke is on me because i'm out of what's equivalent of 3-4 bucks

>>2491233
You have to form your own ideology around this topic.
For me it's a case of "If I can avoid it, I'll avoid it".
I know smoking is bad and causes cancer and all kinds of other diseases, I was a strong smoker while I was an apprentice and when I went to university, but I was able to drop it. February 2021 I was confronted with an event that caused such a trauma that I was put in psychiatric care, was on medication and whatnot, my friends and family supported me by inviting me to all kinds of small events, giving me the feeling of "not being alone", which was really helping. The problem was everyone around me was smoking and in that kind of social setting I got the urge of smoking as well. A friend of mine saved me by offering a nice cigar which I enjoyed over the period of 1.5 hours but it made me think how to avoid urges like that without resorting to something that I inhale in my lungs and without wasting 1.5 hours if everyone around me finishes in 5 minutes. So I ended up smoking the pipe. On every social event that I'm invited to I'm carrying the pipe and whenever I get the urge of smoking, I can suckle on my pipe. Of course that's also unhealthy but not as unhealthy as smoking cigarettes into your lungs. So I swapped out something harmful with something less harmful.

Why did I write all of this? How should I know. If you can avoid PET bottles, avoid it. If you can't, don't feel bad.

>>2491239
I guess it depends on where you live. In Germany, Netherlands and Belgium I've never seen Smirnoff Ice in something other than 0.33l clear glass bottles.

The only alcohol you get in PET bottles in Germany is cheap discounter beer from stores like LIDL and ALDI and Russian beer from Russian food stores.

>>2491255
What about these?
https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/coopers-pet-bottles-ox-bar-24-x-500ml.html

>>2491258
Can't really tell. I get my brown 0.5l flit-top bottles as returnable bottles from my local beverage market.
In Germany you have the "returnable bottles" system, whenever you buy a beverage, you pay for the beverage and for the bottle. Upon returning the empty bottle, you get your money back.
So I just go to my local beverage market and ask for an empty crate of 20 flip-top bottles.

>Crate: 4.50€
>Bottle: 0.15€

So for one crate with 20 empty bottles I pay 7.50€ and when I return them, I get my entire money back.
Putting that into contrast with disposable PET bottles for 12.00 GBP is difficult, so maybe some other anon should answer if they are OK.

How do you restart a stuck fermentation?

>>2491270
No I meant it as an example of PET alcohol bottles for home brewing

>>2491255
> guess it depends on where you live. In Germany, Netherlands and Belgium I've never seen Smirnoff Ice in something other than 0.33l clear glass bottles.
Not Smirnoff ice, the actual 40% Smirnoff vodka. In the Netherlands and they’re available from wholesalers and in clubs where they don’t want to give out glass. But they’re not refilled I think.

Also I know your opinion on trying to avoid it but I find glass a hassle and pic related is one of the few cheap options available where you can add your own lid/airlock/tap

Is there a better way to clean this shit other than fill with hot soapy water and let it soak?

What sanitizer do you use? I just got a big jug of iodine and I just realized getting the no rinse stuff might have been easier

>>2491153
correct. I'm having a hard time remembering what I did three weeks ago.

I think I removed 4 cups, pressure cooked, and returned three cups back to each bottle to account for any increase in volume. The remaining 8 cups I put into a separate container.

Hey, real quick, what does "fuck up this process and you're on your way to the ER" mean? like, it will explode?

Yeah, the brown sugar comes in two pound bags. I think I added two of them. I intended to, but I remember not being able to find the second bag, but I think I eventually found it again. I said 4 bags. I meant 4 pounds.

>>2491336
StarSan. I keep a big ol spray bottle full of the stuff and just spray it on everything.

>>2491273
It depends on where it is stuck and what was done to the brew last.

Please anons, if you have specific questions about your brew, describe your processes, what you were brewing and what the last thing was that you did.

These questions are the equivalent to /g/'s "Why does my PC crash?".

>>2491331
I'm regularly using 2x 20 liter camping containers made from HD-PE. Their opening is exactly the right size for my biggest rubber bungs, works perfectly.

>>2491335
Five Star PBW.
17g per liter into the fermenter and fill it with warm water. You can literally watch in real-time how the crusty stuff is vaporized the moment the liquid touches it. Just wait 15-30 minutes, shake it and rinse it well with warm water.
Best investment I ever made, I'm literally cleaning everything in PBW after use. Just be sure to wear protective glasses and gloves, it's a really aggressive substance.

>>2491337
> Hey, real quick, what does "fuck up this process and you're on your way to the ER" mean? like, it will explode?
Yes, if you ferment more than 6g/L in a closed bottle and then heat it, it can explode. A pretty safe method is to preheat the bottles a bit, take a cooler (cool box / eski), fill it with boiling water, put bottles in, lid on, and then leave it for 10 minutes. But before you do so, open one bottle to see how much pressure there is.

>>2491335
They sell brushes made out of metal wire that you can bend to reach around. 24hrs in soapy water and then brush with the water still in there

>>2491337
>Hey, real quick, what does "fuck up this process and you're on your way to the ER" mean? like, it will explode?

Yes, they explode violently and with enough force to bury hot glass shards in your face, eyes, flesh.

The thing is that pressure in a bottle increases with temperature. The classic brown 0.5 liter flip-top beer bottle is rated for 5 Bars of pressure.
If you carbonate with 8g sugar / liter like it is common for cider, you'll end up with 4g CO2 / liter which pressurizes your bottle to 1.3 Bar @20°C.
If you now pasteurize that bottle, you need to increase it's inner temperature to 70°C which increases the pressure to 6.55 Bar. So you're 1.55 Bar over spec and even though it does not necessarily mean that your bottle explodes, the risk is definitely there and just touching the bottle, lifting it, moving it or carefully setting it on a surface to cool, can make it go pop right in your hand.

So to stay safe, you're not allowed to carbonate over 3g CO2 / liter, that will create a pressure of 0.72 Bar @20°C and 4.66 Bar @70°C.
To create 3g CO2 / liter you need 6g sugar / liter. If you want to backsweeten, you need to add more than 6g sugar / liter but you need to pasteurize after 3g sugar / liter is fermented and the bottle pressure is not higher than 0.72 Bar.
If you have no way to check on any of that, I'd make the hard decision between:
>Carbonated but dry
>Sweet but flat

>>2491359
My fermentation isn't stuck, i was just curious how to restart one

>>2491337
>>2491370
Forgot to add pic.
Pic related is my safety net, it's a custom tooled flip-top lid with G1/4" thread for Manometer.

>>2491374
With regards to my comparison to a crashing PC, there are a lot of different reasons why a fermentation is stuck.

But here are the most common:

>Nitrogen deficiency
Caused by missing nutrients, almost impossible to fix, since the nutrients only work in the starting phase of the fermentation when the yeast-colonies are formed.

>High temperature
Fermentation produces energy which heats up the brew. If you don't have a properly temperature controlled environment the brew can surpass 40°C which leads to the yeast to die off.

In both cases you can try a yeast re-pitch, but the success is dependent on how much toxin the yeast gave off while dying. The toxins inhibit the growth of a freshly pitched yeast.

how does ginger bug work? I can only buy imported ginger and its not packaged individually so if I try to wild ferment it won’t I just get whatever yeast was on the hands of the farmers or store workers or other customers?

>>2491391
>Caused by missing nutrients, almost impossible to fix, since the nutrients only work in the starting phase of the fermentation when the yeast-colonies are formed.
Isn't this true only for DAP? OJ

>>2491391
Hit post too soon. One of the selling points of fermaid O is that it works in all stages

I rarely come over to this board but is kombucha allowed here?

>>2491665
Highest abv decides? If so, 16%,i say yes especially since it has practical applications for tea meads.

>>2491681
Ah shit I done goofed. This picks up very little abv.
Sorry boys, I'll see myself out

>>2491645
Can't really believe that, since it's the yeasts who won't take the nutrients but I'm open to new impressions. Never worked with Fermaid O, so I won't deny it at this point.

The more important factor are the toxins of the dying yeasts. You can make a new and strong starter, add Fermaid O to your brew, re-pitch the yeast and they will still immediately die due to the toxins.

Once a colony died in your brew, it's really difficult to restart a fermentation.

>>2491665
>>2491681
Don't really understand the ABV argument, we're discussing malolactic fermentation here where not a single % of ABV is gained, we're discussing bottling, pasteurization and cleaning processes, so why shouldn't Kombucha be allowed?
If someone wants to talk about Ginger Beer or Root Beer, where the ABV is below 1% or 2%, that's fine, too.

>>2491793
He was saying that the poster who makes the highest abv brew gets to decide whether or not kombucha is allowed.

>>2491665
I think it’s cool, I like the idea and process but I don’t really like the taste so never made it

>>2491795
>He was saying that the poster who makes the highest abv brew gets to decide whether or not kombucha is allowed.
OK that went over my head.

>I think it’s cool, I like the idea and process but I don’t really like the taste so never made it
I think the same, the taste is OK but I can't see myself drinking more than one glass a day.

>>2491684
I meant highest abv decides the policy

Why do people keep talking about double anal penetration on brewing forums?

I'm currently brewing an litre and a half of unhopped beer that I'm going to turn into vinegar. Anyone else here ever make vinegar (on purpose) any tips or pitfalls to look out for?

>>2491937
Mother of vinegar likes different temperature than yeast for optimal flavor.

>>2492025
What kinds of temperatures? I try and keep my beer around 68 degrees

>>2492104
acetobacter likes 77-86 degrees

>>2492104
also it likes oxygen

>>2492287
yeah i'm planning on keeping it in a mason jar with some cheesecloth or a tea towel over the top and stirring it occasionally

>>2485803
That still needs to ferment. It’ll have a fat yeast layer on the bottom of the glass when all done

> kilju brew going fine, added 600g sugar to 3L water so far
> wake up check bubbles
> no airlock activity
> no sg drop past 24h

I guess I’m in the stuck fermentation boat. It’s been doing very well for 9 days, fermenting much faster than I thought it would. It doesn’t look like all yeasts have suddenly dropped, but it could be that they have gone through all the nutrients since I’m mostly just feeding sugar (there are some nutrients included in the yeast package though). Should I add an orange peel?

>>2492367
Forgot to quote, my recipe is >>2486768

>>2485803
Why the heck did I completely miss your post in the beginning?
There is something really off about your description. The average apple juice has a SG around 1.050, the lowest I ever had was 1.036 and the highest was 1.058.
Your initial reading of 1.013 really strikes me as odd. Furthermore, even if your reading was correct, from 1.013 to 0.998 is doable by the most average yeast in 2-3 days or even less, definitely not 2 weeks. The cider that I'm fermenting at the moment had an OG of 1.054 and 2 weeks later it was at 1.002.
Since you're at completely dry, a chance to get an accurate ABV reading would be through a glass Vinometer but to be quite honest, just scrap that idea and go by taste.

>Or is it possible that it needs longer to ferment?
When you're at 0.998, there won't be much happening further. If your airlock is still occasionally bubbling, that's just the solved CO2 of your brew escaping. Let it sit as long as it takes to clear up and to form a proper lees cake at the bottom of your carboy, then rack it or even immediately bottle it.

>>2492367
Added the orange peel and a teaspoon of yeast + nutrient (I still haven’t bought fermaid for some reason). It was fermenting like crazy for 2 hours and then stopped again… would it help to rack it off the lees, cold crash it, rack again and then try to restart fermentation with fresh yeast?

>>2491273
>>2491374

As the namefag says, it depends on why it's stuck. Here's a crash course on restarting a ferment:

Gently correct the temperature of the brew to whatever it's supposed to be, if it's too cold perhaps overshoot by a couple degrees just to wake it up. Sometimes it helps to give the bucket a GENTLE twist back and forth to knock sleepy yeast down and stir waking yeast up.

If it doesn't wake up on its own, make a new starter by taking a sample of the liquid, add a new dose of yeast, let it bubble up, and re-pitch the starter into the stuck brew.

If you're brewing something that is nutritionally deficient and/or not acidic enough (clear fruit juices and non-barley based beer tend to be lacking in yeast nutrients or acid), use a supplement and/or add acid. You can get pH test strips to figure out if your brew is way under the anticipated acidity. You'll be doing maths to figure out how much to add of whatever you've bought, but bear in mind this is more art than science because you're playing with a fermentation in progress, so god be with you if you go this route. You'd want to undershoot target starting acidity else you'll end up with a sour version of w/e you're making. You might consider racking to remove what yeast has settled at the bottom. Racking can kill some delicate yeasts, so you might need to rack twice before re-pitching.

You can also just whip out ol' reliable and toss EC1118 on top. Just make sure the brew is warm enough and sprinkle it evenly over the surface. No, you don't even need to make a starter. It'll obliterate whatever wild or ale/lager yeasts are in there, but racking first might be advisable depending on what sorry state your brew is in. Remember tho, it tends to ferment towards a FG of 0.999. Also, you'll want to sterilize with something that kills yeast when you're done (ie. with something stronger than Star San), because EC1118 can resurrect and overtake other yeasts in future projects.

>>2492555
Thanks the new starter method fixed it for me, SG started dropping again but only after 12 hours or so. I’ll get some of that ec1118 just in case it happens again and isn’t as easy to restart.

> EC1118 can resurrect and overtake other yeasts in future projects.
Boiling water should do it right?

>>2494046
>Boiling water should do it right?
Boiling water doesn't get rid of the toxins the dying yeasts leave behind.

>>2494134
Where can I find more about these toxins? I’m curious as to what they are, does Star San destroy them toxins? I clean materials with boiling water after brewing and with star san before

>>2494186
>In S. cerevisiae, three different killer toxins (K1, K2, and K28), all encoded by cytosolic double-stranded RNA viruses, have been identified so far. This killer phenomenon might play a major role in competition in fruit communities in which various insects may carry different colonizing yeasts and the fight for nutrients may begin. It is significant that resistant rather than susceptible yeast strains are usually found in fruits and that one quarter of these yeast strains are killers (Starmer et al., 1987). It has recently been shown that the exposure to toxins produced by coexisting killer strains triggers apoptosis in yeast (Ivanovska and Hardwick, 2005; Reiter et al., 2005; Breinig et al., 2006; Schmitt and Breinig, 2006).

https://rupress.org/jcb/article/175/4/521/44581/Why-yeast-cells-can-undergo-apoptosis-death-in

It's basically a genetic "Scorched Earth" program that makes sure that no other yeast strain can ever inhabit the space where the yeasts died.
It doesn't need to be triggered, since apoptosis in Saccharomyces Cerevisiae mainly targets older yeasts which then die and release their nutrients to the younger yeasts.

>>2494243
Vielen dank. This lead to some really interesting papers. As these are all proteins I would expect that 90C+ would denaturate them (and that soap would just rip them apart) but can’t find confirmation anywhere, good to know. So what’s the effective method? Flush vessel with isopropyl/acetone/peroxide or would Star San just do the job?

>>2494291
There is no reason to jump to extremes when it comes to cleaning out the fermenter afterwards. A proper rinse with hot water and a cleaning agent like Five Star PBW should absolutely suffice.

>>2491370
>If you now pasteurize that bottle, you need to increase it's inner temperature to 70°C which increases the pressure to 6.55 Bar
really? that's still far from boiling and from 20° to 70 in absolute temperature isn't that much of a percentage wise increase
wouldn't this also depend on how much gas space is left at the top? i can image if you'd completely fill the bottle and then heat it then yeah you dun goofed

>>2494409
No, it's just physics and you can't break that.

Refer to Line 18 from this link from the OP posting:
>https://pastebin.com/6NJ3wkSU

I tried to explain everything as simple as possible, you can even create a formula in Excel that gives you the pressure at different CO2 levels and temperatures.

>>2494420
i think if you completely fill a bottle with just regular water, make sure it seals properly, and then heat it it's going to crack, but perhaps this is a complete non-issue with even a tiny bit of headspace and i'm raising issues that don't exist
yeah i tried looking into the relation between pressure, sugar, temperature, before and quickly came to the conclusion that it was too much of a bother and just used charts instead
just surprised it actually goes up so quickly even at a mere 70°. but who the fuck pasteurises anyway

>>2494420
spotted these mistakes
>Kh = 0.034 * e^2400 * ((1 / (273 + T)) - (1 / 298))
formula presented, with the obvious 273 offset to convert to Kelvin
then its proceeded with
>Kh = 0.034 * e^2400 * ((1 / 273 + 20)) - (1 / 298)) = 0.03901
>...
>Kh = 0.034 * e^2400 * ((1 / 273 + 70)) - (1 / 298)) = 0.01182
clearly the brackets are wrong. not checking if this changes the result or not but this needs a correction

>>2494434
>i think if you completely fill a bottle with just regular water, make sure it seals properly, and then heat it it's going to crack
Why should it? Without carbonation you have only expansion of the liquid which is absolutely negligible. (From 20°C to 70°C an expansion of ~1.7%) That's why I completely ignored it in my calculations, the pressure increase of the solved CO2 is far bigger.

I think you don't really understand the underlying physics of "gasses solved in liquids". The headspace doesn't mean jackshit.

>but who the fuck pasteurizes anyway
Everyone who wants a carbonated AND backsweetened cider without ending with a shelf of 40 popped bottles.
And pasteurization is the only method you're going to achieve this and the yeast doesn't give a shit about how much sweetness or how much carbonation you want in your cider. As long as they have sugar, they consume it and produce CO2.

>>2494446
>but perhaps this is a complete non-issue with even a tiny bit of headspace and i'm raising issues that don't exist

>>2494444
Good catch, should of course be:

>Kh = 0.034 * e^2400 * ((1 / (273 + 20)) - (1 / 298)) = 0.03901
>...
>Kh = 0.034 * e^2400 * ((1 / (273 + 70)) - (1 / 298)) = 0.01182

Mistakes happen, especially if you write everything yourself. Maybe OP can change that part in the pastebin entry.

>>2494450
i just noticed, in between the brackets, this term
((1 / (273 + T)) - (1 / 298))
with T for 20 and 70; 293<298<343
yet both calculated Kh values have the same sign

>>2494457
I see the ambiguity now. To make it even more obvious, we should write it like this:

>Kh = 0.034 * e^(2400 * ((1 / (273 + T)) - (1 / 298)))

The entire last part is the exponent of e, I thought that was obvious, since multiplication has precedence and thus the exponent would be calculated first.
I'll write the formula in Latex tomorrow, maybe that will help.

>>2494463
yeah i already thought that e^2400 was going to get a very big number so i didn't even tried to put it into a calculator
at least it explains the signs
considering the second value is lower than the first i'm presuming it was calculated correctly but very poorly written out

>>2494466
Hope this clears up any confusion that is left

How often should I take gravity readings?
Right now I maybe check twice a week, and thats only cause i mostly brew beers that finish pretty quick.

>>2494715
Why even check that often

>>2494732
Paranoia

>>2494715
The least often you can. You're risking contamination every time.

>>2494715
It depends if it matters for your process. If you’re feeding sugar over time or if you want to end up at some very specific FG (for sweetness or carbonation) you may want to check it often. But if you start under 17 Bx and go for full attenuation you don’t really need to check it at all.

>>2494715
i don't
have hydrometers though

>>2494657
did you also check the calculations? it's the high values at 70° that led to me checking the formulas in the first place
i would but i don't have a graphing calculator on me and doing these things on a pc is cancer
if anon would have added references that would have been great

>>2494463
>The entire last part is the exponent of e, I thought that was obvious, since multiplication has precedence and thus the exponent would be calculated first.
no that's wrong
e^a*b!=e^(a*b)
put it in maple or something if you don't believe me

>>2494893
The calculation is okay but he’s a bit off on the physics. The equation used at line 54 is a simplified approximation and hardly applicable here because neither CO2 nor water behave anywhere near ideal at 70C. That’s why the solubility tables usually end at 60C. Between 20C and 60C the solubility decreases (ie pressure increases) by about a factor 3 already though

>>2494908
Forgot illustrative table

>>2494908
alright thanks. i know a thing or two about thermodynamics but my knowledge about solubility in general is approximately zero

>>2494908
>The calculation is okay but he’s a bit off on the physics.

Then don't tell that to me, tell that to Wikipedia and William Henry, who developed all the formulas for this topic of physics:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry-Gesetz#Temperaturabh%C3%A4ngigkeit_der_Henry-Konstante

Good luck correcting the article.

>>2494893
>if anon would have added references that would have been great
Hope reference above and pic related are sufficient.
I don't know what you mean by "high values at 70°C" though, the curve is really flat, I'll give a graph with my next posting.

>>2494893
>>2494908
>>2494926
If you think my calculations are OK up to 60°C, then you'd agree that the result at 4g/l CO2 of 5.23 Bar is correct. That means you agree that at 60°C we're already above the rated specs of the brown 0.5l flip top beer bottles. That means you agree that at 70°C we're definitely even more above the rated specs of the brown 0.5l flip top beer bottles. Correct?

>>2494926
>I don't know what you mean by "high values at 70°C" though, the curve is really flat, I'll give a graph with my next posting.
i think i made it pretty clear i don't know jack shit about the topic. like i said some thermo stuff i do know and if you heat an ideal gas from 20 to 70 the pressure doesn't tripple, but that's not applicapble at all in this situation so my gut feeling was wrong.
also, from your own article (english version, fuck you for linking the rotmof speak page)
>The van 't Hoff equation in this form is only valid for a limited temperature range in which Δ sol H {\displaystyle \Delta _{\text{sol}}H} {\displaystyle \Delta _{\text{sol}}H} does not change much with temperature (around 20K of variations).
so that anon's criticism is completely right

>>2494926
Optimized the screenshot, since I missed the Henry Constant.

>>2494939
do you also have a table for an ethanol-water mixture instead of just water?

>>2494930
you're using a simplified formula over a temperature range that's not appropriate and applying it to something that's not pure water either
you method might be correct but i wouldn't take the numbers at face value, no

>>2494934
>I can't be criticized even though I don't know shit about what I'm talking about
>But I criticize you, because you're not reading a scientific paper in your non-native language
And fuck you to you, too.

I want to know and understand stuff, so of course I read them in my native language and since I wasn't able to find an exact resemblance in the English version, I posted the German one. I hope you don't want to make me apologize for stealing your time to click on a single fucking link to change languages.

The German version of Henry's Law just calls ΔsolvH as the enthalpy change and R as the gas constant. They don't reference the Van 't Hoff equation and don't state any limits on temperature range. The only reference is in the English article on the Van 't Hoff equation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_%27t_Hoff_equation#Temperature_dependence
and that's above my level of comprehension as to how to implement that into the formula of the Henry Coefficient.

Any chemistry anons here who can help out?

>>2494977
>I can't be criticized even though I don't know shit about what I'm talking about
>But I criticize you, because you're not reading a scientific paper in your non-native language
now you're just strawmanning. and yes i think it's rude to link the page in your native nazi speak in an international discussion when the english wiki page is removed one click away.
i even rarely use my native's language wiki page unless is related to my country because the english page is usually more accurate, which is demonstrated by
>They don't reference the Van 't Hoff equation and don't state any limits on temperature range. The only reference is in the English article on the Van 't Hoff equation:
i sometimes spot contradictions and massive inaccuracies when switching between languages so there's a reason wikipedia is frowned upon in academic circles
good example was one of these threads were someone posted a wiki page about lambics and how the bacteria involved reside in the barrel. the source that was linked didn't support this statement at all (spoiler: they're in the air)
also 2^2*2 is 8 and 2^(2*2) is 16

>>2494943
I requested the PDF at
>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/244342767_Solubility_of_carbon_dioxide_in_binary_and_ternary_mixtures_with_ethanol_and_water
since it looks like the most promising collection of data that we're interested in, but it depends on the author to grant me access to it or not.

>>2494943
>>2494960
What I found out till now is that the solubility of CO2 in ethanol is close to that of water but not quite as good, which means that a water-ethanol mixture is not as good at solving CO2 as pure water is, which means that at higher temperatures it loses more CO2 than pure water, which in turn increases pressure.
All this points to:
>No matter what the exact numbers are, they are definitely higher than my imperfect numbers

>>2494982
>also 2^2*2 is 8 and 2^(2*2) is 16

I corrected that 13 hours ago: >>2494657

>>2494995
>No matter what the exact numbers are, they are definitely higher than my imperfect numbers
agreed, but this also means the numbers aren't exactly conservative are they?

>>2495001
I have 20 liters of Cider to bottle soon, just have to wait for malolactic fermentation to finish. I'll document the alcohol contents, the amount of sugar added for carbonation, I'll use my manometer flip top bottle from my posting here >>2491378 and I'll document the pressure while pasteurization is in progress in relation to the temperature.
That way we can create a delta between my theoretical numbers and real life numbers of a single practical example. If the delta is small, the formula holds water. If the delta is large (what I can't really believe) the formula is rubbish. The reason why I can't believe in a large delta is that in all the years I used the manometer, I never had a pasteurization at 70°C exceed the 5 bar marker.

>>2495050
>I'll use my manometer flip top bottle from my posting here >>2491378 and I'll document the pressure while pasteurization is in progress in relation to the temperature.
i was actually considering suggesting that but i missed that post.
sounds like a very good idea, i look forward to your results. also the pastebin thing was written by a guest and probably can't be edited, i think it's for the best to copy paste it in another one, correct the errors and add your findings
we don't want to shower anons in glass and near boiling water, this website's reputation is already bad enough
glad we could have a somewhat civil discussion

>>2494926
> Then don't tell that to me, tell that to Wikipedia and William Henry
I don’t have to. Pic related is the English source and it seems the German wiki that copied it is missing a crucial sentence, just above the table

>>2494930
This is correct, but since you seem to be very eager to assist/correct people on semantics, I might as well:

>>2494977
> They don't reference the Van 't Hoff equation and don't state any limits on temperature range.
I think you’re missing some relations here. Henry’s law only states the proportionality of concentration to partial pressure. The approximation you’re using to compute concentration uses the van ‘t Hoff equation to relate equilibrium solubility to temperature using enthalpy.

>>2495135
That's really strange, since in the English article, they bring up the Van 't Hoff Equation immediately and tell about the restrictions that it comes with, while the German article starts off with:
>There are many approaches to put this relation into a formula, a simple example is:
which then continues to show the formula that I used.
And no matter how much I search, I simply can't find any other approach to the Henry Coefficient than the one using the Van 't Hoff Equation.

On the other hand, the part:
>The Van 't Hoff equation in this form is only valid for a limited temperature range in which ΔsolvH does not change much with temperature (around 20K of variations).
should deserve a [citation needed] since even the source material doesn't give reliable answers to that relation.
It also does not necessarily mean that the formula is wrong for CO2 solved in water. The Henry Coefficient and van 't Hoff equation can be used for thousands of gasses solved in thousands of liquids. (Which most likely is the reason why the source material doesn't go into detail about the temperature relation) All it states is that if ΔsolvH changes a lot under temperature, so does the result of the Van 't Hoff Equation. That in turn means, if ΔsolvH stays fairly linear/constant under different temperatures, so does the result of the Van 't Hoff Equation. All I need to know now is how much ΔsolvH changes for CO2 in water under different temperatures.

Also as a side-note in regards to the argument of CO2 not being solved in water but in a water-ethanol mixture, we're dealing with an ethanol concentration of 4% - 16% by volume and since the solubility in ethanol is just minimally lower than in water, I don't really thing that the results of CO2 being solved in a water-ethanol mix instead of pure water should be that much worse. Maybe a couple of points in the decimals.

>>2495190
As an addendum, it seems that there is just a lot of missing data that the whole concept is built upon. Just read the text at:
>https://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/inchi?ID=C124389&Mask=10#Solubility

>Only the tabulated data between T = 273. K and T = 303. K from missing citation was used to derive kH and -Δ kH/R. Above T = 303. K the tabulated data could not be parameterized by equation (reference missing) very well. The partial pressure of water vapor (needed to convert some Henry's law constants) was calculated using the formula given by missing citation. The quantities A and α from missing citation were assumed to be identical.

Method:
>Q: The cited paper doesn't clearly state how the value was obtained.

>>2495192
Could this be the reason for the sentence:
>The Van 't Hoff equation in this form is only valid for a limited temperature range in which ΔsolvH does not change much with temperature (around 20K of variations).
in the main article? I'm not good with English scientific jargon but to me it doesn't sound like:
>This definitely doesn't work at higher temperatures
but instead like:
>We don't have data that reliably shows that it works at higher temperatures

My name's anonymous and I'm here to say, doing math is pretty gay!

>>2487860
Tepache
Kombucha

>>2495318
>Being dragged into the ER with glass shards buried in your face
>How did this happen?
>Well doctor, I didn't want to be gay
Cool story, bro.

>>2495199
“relation x is not valid outside y” in chemistry often means as much as “there are other effects which throw the result off more than a few % so proceed with caution and don’t blame us when your shit explodes”

>>2495404
tbf fair the thread has gone a bit more autismo than usual

>>2495529
agree but before it was like how many maple syrups per gallon of walmart apple juice

>>2495529
>>2495531
But isn't that the fun part about having such a hobby? Or do you think there are people on this planet that pursue a hobby and go
>Damn, I hope I don't learn anything from this

>>2495542
maybe the real homebrewing was the autism we got along the way

>>2495547
>maybe the real homebrewing was the autism we got along the way
The banter was happily bubbling until that guy Brett just showed up and soured the conversation

>>2495566
>until that guy Brett just showed up
That guy stinks

>>2495319
Nah kombucha reliably takes 2 weeks

is 1 kg grain to 5l water a good ratio for beeer

>>2495794
Is 3 potatoes per person enough for dinner?

How should we know?
What type of malt are you using?
Do you use specialty malts?
What brewhouse efficiency are you aiming at?
What should the O.G. be?
What brew method are you using?
Are you sparging after mashing?

There are recipes for which 1kg of malts is enough for 5 liters and there are recipes for which it isn't.

> MLF cider finished clearing
> less sour as intended
> also less fruity, tastes watery, bland and smells like butter

Guess I’ll keep one small bottle and throw the rest out. Not too sure what I was expecting it to taste like, and it could be me, but I don’t really see how it could improves taste for low alcohol dry cider. Maybe it’s only good with cider apples

>>2495818
>smells like butter
That's Diacetyl, created by the lactic acid bacteria.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fault#Diacetyl

>less sour as intended
Malolactic fermentation reduces overall acidity by 4% - 50%. (Yes, 50%!) Malolactic fermentation should really only be used if your cider is too acidic to enjoy. If it's just dry/sour/spritzy, leave it as it is and carbonate or backsweeten, that counters the acidity enough that it will become a thoroughly enjoyable cider.
Uncountered acid can be perceived as really offputting, like if you do a pure mead with an acidity of 7.5g/l and let it ferment till completely dry, for the love of god you just can't drink that. But the moment you add just the smallesT amount of sugar or honey to the mad, it suddenly becomes lovely without really tasting sweet.

>>2495815
ye 3 potatos is enough

>>2495847
>Are they big potatoes or small?
>Will there be meat?
>Will there be veggies?
>Will there be starters?
>Will there be dessert?
>Are the guests strong eaters?
That was my point.

>>2495815
Did some reading and it seems 1kg to 4l seems to be the norm and then
>after mashing for
an hour, the mash is drained of wort and infused with an
equal volume of sparge water.
What does this equal volume mean? equal to the amount of mash? so you end up with 5l per 1kg?

>>2490935
You can actually put it in the fridge at really low temp OR heat up your brew to kill the yeast then add more sugar to sweeten without restarting fermentation. You could also just let it sit and wait for the yeast to die after aging and backsweeten your brew. If there’s no sugar they’ll eventually starve. final alternative is to immediately backsweeten and just drink it with live yeast and bubbles.

Question, if my brew drops below the yeasts optimal fermentation temp, can I just warm it up and the fermentation will restart? Or do I need to warm it up and pitch more yeast?

I don't have the space for a temperature controlled brew area, so everything brews at room temp, and I'm too much of a cheap bastard to turn the heater on yet so its been like 62 degrees in my house. Thats not outside optimal temps yet but I probably won't turn the heater on until it gets into the low 50s, so I'm just curious.

>>2495955
It’s usually fine but if it gets too cold all the yeast can drop and you may need give a gentle shake after warming up again for resuspending.
50f is pretty cold though

>>2495913
>equal volume of sparge water
When the equal volume of sparge water is needed, it refers to the water you started your mashing with.
So if the recipe calls for 4 liters of water to start mashing, and an equal amount for sparging, you'll be sparging with 4 liters, no matter how much liquid you lost while mashing.
You'll most likely end up with 7 - 7.5 liters before the boil and about 5.5 - 6 liters after the boil but this is heavily dependent on the recipe.

>>2495955
Optimal temperature is printed on the package of your yeast, as long as your 62°F are on the package, you're fine.

Here are some examples:
>Mangrove Jack's M44: 59°F - 71°F
OK
>Mangrove Jack's M36: 64°F - 73°F
Not OK
>LalBrew Nottingham Ale: 50°F - 71°F
OK
>Mangrove Jack's M29: 79°F - 90°F
Saison Yeast without heating is absolutely not OK

>>2496121
I know what my optimal temps are, I'm saying if i drop below that can I just warm the brew up again to restart fermentation or do I need to pich more yeast.

>>2496132
No, lower temperatures will just make the yeast go dormant and sink to the bottom. You can warm your brew up again to reactivate the yeast, without pitching new yeast. You just have to raise the temperature really slowly, since abrupt temperature changes can kill the yeast. After temperature is raised, just swirl the brew a bit to bring the yeast back up.

>>2496113
How longs the boil supposed to be that you evaporate 1l, thought it was just a casual 10 min boil.

>>2496455
1 to 2 hours, doesn’t your recipe tell you?

>>2496457
huh

>>2496455
In general you can calculate 60 minutes for the boil. Also you're losing liquid due to the time it takes for the heat ramp-up from 66-72°C (depending on how you end the mashing) to 99°C which isn't included in the 60 minutes of the boil and depending on your volume and the power of your heating, that heat ramp-up can cost you 15-45min. If you don't use a wort cooler, you'll also lose volume by letting it cool down to pitching temperature. As a rule of thumb you can always calculate 15-25% loss to evaporation, heavily depending on recipe.

Even though the boil was a historical necessity to properly sterilize the wort due to horrific water quality and contamination, and even though people say "Our water quality is so good in this day and age, you don't need to boil for so long", the hopping process still makes it mandatory to go the full length. The alpha-acids become volatile at high temperatures, the longer they boil, the more aroma and flavor they lose. As a rule of thumb you can assume that after 5-10 min. boiling, they lose their aroma and after 30-40 min. boiling, they lose their flavor and just bitterness remains.
From that you can approximate:
>Bittering: 60-40 min.
>Flavoring: 40-10 min.
>Aroma: 10-0 min.

But all of this data should be provided by your recipe. You have a recipe, right?

>>2496497
No, i'm just making things up in my head

>>2496497
Did the old monks not know that a w minute boil or a 60 minute boil makes no difference regarding sterility of the water? I know fuck all about beer brewing but that sounds odd

>>2496547
>No, i'm just making things up in my head
OK, whatever tickles your fancy.

>>2496604
>Did the old monks not know that a w minute boil or a 60 minute boil makes no difference regarding sterility of the water?
No they didn't, they didn't even know about "sterility". They just saw:
>Water from the well makes you ill
>Beer doesn't make you ill
>Beer that's not boiled long enough makes you ill
>Better boil the beer longer
And that weren't necessarily the monks, beer was something that in the Germanic and Bohemian regions was done by single households. "Beer brewing" just started when "roles" further developed in society and mostly the brewers were tavern-owners at the same time, serving their own beer. Only in the regions with a lot of monasteries, like in Bavaria the monks were brewing enough to supply the local taverns. With the advent of the German "Reinheitsgebot" (Laws of beer purity) the breweries got enough power in Germany to make tavern-owners stop brewing for themselves. Monks were simply those who perfected the processes of beer brewing over the centuries, without them and especially without the monks from the French-Belgian regions our beers wouldn't be as good today as they are.

Pic related is Privatbrauerei Gröninger Hamburg which still is a tavern that brews their own beer. The original copper brew pans are still in the dining area but they since expanded to the neighboring building with a much much larger brewhouse.

Fun-fact: Between 1200 and 1600 a.d. it was pretty normal in the Germanic regions to drink beer all day, even women and children. They produced very low gravity beers (1.0-1.5%ABV) for everyday consumption because in many regions the groundwater quality and hygiene was just so abysmal that it was healthier to drink beer all day than groundwater.

>>2496615
reinheitsgebot is nothing but a marketing term. adopted in the early 1900s against german will to appease bavaria

>>2496971
For the official term "Reinheitsgebot" that's correct, but that's just the official manifestation of the rule set by Bavarian government. The concept of a Reinheitsgebot is over 800 years old. I just thought you guys can make more sense of the word "Reinheitsgebot" than with the word "Brauverordnung".

Fun-fact: A lot of tavern owners, especially in Northern Germany were pagans and instead of hops they used different psychoactive substances to bitter the beer. (That beer was called Grut and was made from oats instead of barley) The substances made it possible for them to feel connected to their ancestors and their gods. And so there exists the conspiracy theory that the Brauverordnungen were a combined effort of the church to stop pagans from brewing beer.

first time making alcohol but i added like way too much sugar, 1.4L liquid and 400g sugar + 107g in the liquid already will it be fine? i used wine yeast btw

>>2497158
>Sugar: 400g + 107g = 507g
>Liquid: 1.4 liter
>362g sugar/liter
>OG: 1.136
>Potential ABV: 20.4%

Yep, that's way too much. Fermentation will start really slowly and the osmotic pressure will create a lot of stress in the yeast.

How old is your brew? If it's not that old, just add 400ml of water to your brew, should bring your gravity down to 1.108.
If your fermentation vessel can't hold that much, pour your brew into a sanitized pot, add your 400ml of water, stir and fill up your fermenter again. The 400ml that you'll be left with can go down the drain but that's better than pouring your entire brew down the drain.

>>2497166
just started it 2 hours ago, can i just pour out like 300ml of the brew then pour back 300ml of water? i dont have a funnel so i dont really want to pour it all back into the bottle : (

>>2497171
Yes, you can do that. That way you'll end up with 284g/l which gives an OG of 1.107.

>>2497173
Thanks just did it, is 75% isopropyl alcohol good for desterilization for alcohol btw? i made some from 99% that i use for cleaning

>>2497176
>is 75% isopropyl alcohol good for desterilization for alcohol btw?
Only if you let everything that was in contact with the isopropyl alcohol properly dry.
You don't want any isopropyl alcohol in anything food-related.

If this hobby clicks with you, I'd recommend getting a bottle of Five Star Star San.
It might look expensive at first sight but you only need 15-20ml per liter and it's safe for consumption to a certain degree. So you can dump any tool into a bucket of Star San and make contact with your brew, without fear that your brew might become undrinkable.

>>2495818
What yeast did you use? I've ran into diacetyl issues with cotes des blancs.

tell me about the lees; does boiling them and adding them to another brew achieve anything nutrient wise?

>>2487860
Sima
Kvass

>>2497579
Kvass is good stuff.
>tfw set off the landkikes fire alarm at 3 am drunkenly blackening rye bread
Good times.

>>2485779
Is it bad to leave stuff in Star-San for too long? Like 24 hours? I started sanitizing to keg and then decided I don't feel like kegging today so I'm gonna procrastinate until tomorrow. Can I just leave it all soaking in the Star-San?

>>2497825
I used Star San in a bucket after 24h and nothing went off. Also I regularly pre-mix Star San in a 10 liter canister which I then use over the course of 2-3 weeks.
I wouldn't worry to let it sit until tomorrow.

illegal in most parts of the US
or is there some way around it?

>>2497825
I've had some hoses get kinda weird when I forgot them in Starsan.

>>2498038
It's illegal federally. That means in all 50 states if you don't have a permit.
>is there some way around it
Yeah, you can do it illegally, or you can move somewhere else, or you can even get a permit

>>2498038
>is there some way around it?
just don't tell anyone what you're doing and you'll be fine

Iv made a few gallons of mead so far and now i'm trying my luck with cider. I didn't have any extra sugar on hand but I added 1 tbs of Yeast nutrient.

Can I keep the CO2 cannister inside the fridge?
Kegerator is a work in progress and doesn't have the hookups yet. Current plan is to just put the keg and CO2 in the fridge and I'll just open the fridge when I need to get a beer until I actually get around to drilling the holes and putting the tubing and stuff.

Will that work or does the CO2 have to be outside and unrefrigerated?

I'm kegging for the first time and have 2 questions:
What, if anything, do I need to do to displace oxygen when I start forced carbonation? I remember a video I watched a while ago about kegging and he did something to purge the oxygen so it was just CO2. But I don't remember what video it was and the how-to videos I watched today don't do anything, they just hook the CO2 up to the keg and set it to 20 PSI to carbonate.

Next question: Will a higher PSI carbonate quicker? Can't I just do 30 PSI or something and get it carbonated sooner?

Racked 2 bottles of 16% anise wine today, and tomorrow 2 more bottles that will be freeze distilled to 25%-ish. Taste is good, sweet, spicy, could have gone with a little less cloves, but still nice. It’s not really wine so for sake of purists ima call it fäkermeister

>>2499151
Also the previous batch cleared completely and turned a reddish brown from molasses. This one has less spices and is a bit sweeter at 14% abv

>>2498339
Yes, it's quite safe.
CO2 head pressure should be pretty much unaffected by a fridge. BTW the smart way to buy the crush washers is in bulk online as that should give most users a lifetime supply.

You can do other handy things with a CO2 cylinder like using a fixed pressure regulator (no gauge to bash and CO2 guages don't show volume anyway) with a brass Milton high flow pneumatic chuck for convenient tire inflation, bead seating and even briefly running pneumatic tools at much higher than normal pressures. See the Power Tank site for the fancy shit but don't buy theirs.